How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

As far as I know, Bahaullah does not teach unity in diversity of Religion. Look, what Bahaullah has been recorded to have said:


Bahá’u’lláh stated at that meeting:

"… That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease...

So when it comes to religion, it is not unity in diversity, but to get rid of the diversity?

 

[CG Didymus]

... hope the world accepts the Lesser Peace soon...

The "world" is heading toward having to find a way to force or enforce a peace or the world will be destroyed. So if humans are to survive it is a necessity. But what society or nation is at peace within itself? So go to the next level of bringing all people and all nations together, how are they going to be able to make a peaceful world? Won't it still have all the inner turmoil still going on?

So what do the Baha'is do at that point?

 

[CG Didymus]

What about obedience to the laws God? You believe in God but do you believe He is a Lawgiver?. Or just that we should worship Him? If you believe we should worship God, how do you know what His Will or Wish is?

Does God prefer to be worshipped in words, deeds, both? And how do we know? Inspiration or personal revelation? And then how do we know it comes from God and ourselves?

So how do we know that what we believe is true and comes from God and is not just our own imaginations? Just asking because what basis do you determine what is right or wrong, good or bad? What is popular amongst the people is not necessarily good or truth. What we think, as we are error prone, may also be wrong.

So upon saying we should this or we should do that - who says that is what we should do? God? You? What is popular ?

Yes, God is a lawgiver and prescribed punishments for those that break his laws... like stoning. Did his remedy work? No.

Someone said that a Baha'i law said to burn an arsonist. But what about adulterers and fornicators and.... those that practice homosexual behavior? What is the punishment recommended by God in the Baha'i Era? But, since stoning didn't stop it, what makes whatever Baha'u'llah implements be different?

 

[CG Didymus]

The new (you mean Baha'i' here, let's face it) viewpoint has been discussed many times over, and found to be contradictory to and not complementary to Hindu teachings, by Hindus themselves. It's not that we're not reading all the quotes, it's that we fundamentally disagree with a lot of it.

What the Baha'is don't seem to understand is that the way they are presenting their beliefs, it makes all other beliefs wrong. If a Baha'i and a Hindu was talking to, or be talked at, by a born-again Christian, the Christian would tell you how both of you are wrong and how they are right.

The Baha'i would argue, in love, that the Christian is wrong and has missed the return of their Messiah. But what would the Hindu say?

 

[CG Didymus]

Great news, water is life, all in balance.

I look back on history and note when God gave a Message, it was the Majority that did not accept it.

Consider, it was only an offer to look, not an insult.

Be happy always, Regards Tony

Since it wasn't God, but a manifestation, that didn't necessarily fulfill prophecies as expected, and did bring changes to the old religion, do you think the majority had some legitimate reasons for questioning, doubting or not believing the messenger?

 

[arthra]

What the Baha'is don't seem to understand is that the way they are presenting their beliefs, it makes all other beliefs wrong. If a Baha'i and a Hindu was talking to, or be talked at, by a born-again Christian, the Christian would tell you how both of you are wrong and how they are right.
The Baha'i would argue, in love, that the Christian is wrong and has missed the return of their Messiah. But what would the Hindu say?

You may be over-generalizing Didymus. In my community we're active in an Inter-Faith Council and cooperate with other faith communities on common issues that face all of us. Granted some Christians don't like the Inter-faith Council but we still offer to communicate with them any way. I work with a Hindu, a Zoroastrian and a Muslim on a lot of issues.

 

[arthra]

What the Baha'is don't seem to understand is that the way they are presenting their beliefs, it makes all other beliefs wrong. If a Baha'i and a Hindu was talking to, or be talked at, by a born-again Christian, the Christian would tell you how both of you are wrong and how they are right.

The Baha'i would argue, in love, that the Christian is wrong and has missed the return of their Messiah. But what would the Hindu say?

Yes, God is a lawgiver and prescribed punishments for those that break his laws... like stoning. Did his remedy work? No.
Someone said that a Baha'i law said to burn an arsonist. But what about adulterers and fornicators and.... those that practice homosexual behavior? What is the punishment recommended by God in the Baha'i Era? But, since stoning didn't stop it, what makes whatever Baha'u'llah implements be different?

Some of our laws are not enforced as yet and the way they are enforced has yet to be decided. The laws about stoning in the earlier dispensations you may be aware were enforced when people didn't have penal institutions or hospitals, etc. Each community having with an elected Assembly can deal with behaviours exhibited by people and they do so with confidentiality and sometimes refer them to counseling or therapy for help.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What the Baha'is don't seem to understand is that the way they are presenting their beliefs, it makes all other beliefs wrong. If a Baha'i and a Hindu was talking to, or be talked at, by a born-again Christian, the Christian would tell you how both of you are wrong and how they are right.

The Baha'i would argue, in love, that the Christian is wrong and has missed the return of their Messiah. But what would the Hindu say?

I would offer knowing the History of the Baha'i Faith and how all Faiths are first met by the people of the age, that we understand fully what reaction this Message will bring.

Yes it is with Love that all that is said is offered, it is with Love that we accept all that is given in return, even when that resulted in giving ones life so Humanity can find its unity.

I would like to offer how offended do you really need to be When it is Offered that Krishna is From God and he came for Peace Love and Justice, Buddha is from God, He came for peace Love and Justice, Abraham, Moses, Christ and Muhammad are from God they came for Peace Love and Justice. All Ancient Native Beliefs had foundation in Gods Word to give us a connection to the earth and nature and creation?

God bless all with a vision of our Unity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Since it wasn't God, but a manifestation, that didn't necessarily fulfill prophecies as expected, and did bring changes to the old religion, do you think the majority had some legitimate reasons for questioning, doubting or not believing the messenger?

That is a very good question It is also quite confronting when the answer is given by Baha'u'llah, as follows;

Baha'u'llah has answered your observation like this;

"Consider the past. How many, both high and low, have, at all times, yearningly awaited the advent of the Manifestations of God in the sanctified persons of His chosen Ones. How often have they expected His coming, how frequently have they prayed that the breeze of Divine mercy might blow, and the promised Beauty step forth from behind the veil of concealment, and be made manifest to all the world. And whensoever the portals of grace did open, and the clouds of divine bounty did rain upon mankind, and the light of the Unseen did shine above the horizon of celestial might, they all denied Him, and turned away from His face—the face of God Himself…."

Then Baha'u'llah asks us to consider why they do offer rejection;

"......Reflect, what could have been the motive for such deeds? What could have prompted such behavior towards the Revealers of the beauty of the All-Glorious? Whatever in days gone by hath been the cause of the denial and opposition of those people hath now led to the perversity of the people of this age. To maintain that the testimony of Providence was incomplete, that it hath therefore been the cause of the denial of the people, is but open blasphemy......."

Then why there is no legitimate reason;

"...How far from the grace of the All-Bountiful and from His loving providence and tender mercies it is to single out a soul from amongst all men for the guidance of His creatures, and, on one hand, to withhold from Him the full measure of His divine testimony, and, on the other, inflict severe retribution on His people for having turned away from His chosen One! Nay, the manifold bounties of the Lord of all beings have, at all times, through the Manifestations of His Divine Essence, encompassed the earth and all that dwell therein. Not for a moment hath His grace been withheld, nor have the showers of His loving-kindness ceased to rain upon mankind. Consequently, such behavior can be attributed to naught save the petty-mindedness of such souls as tread the valley of arrogance and pride, are lost in the wilds of remoteness, walk in the ways of their idle fancy, and follow the dictates of the leaders of their faith. Their chief concern is mere opposition; their sole desire is to ignore the truth. Unto every discerning observer it is evident and manifest that had these people in the days of each of the Manifestations of the Sun of Truth sanctified their eyes, their ears, and their hearts from whatever they had seen, heard, and felt, they surely would not have been deprived of beholding the beauty of God, nor strayed far from the habitations of glory. But having weighed the testimony of God by the standard of their own knowledge, gleaned from the teachings of the leaders of their faith, and found it at variance with their limited understanding, they arose to perpetrate such unseemly acts…." Remainder of Passage - Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 17-27

Yes it is a challenge Baha'u'llah has offered Humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The "world" is heading toward having to find a way to force or enforce a peace or the world will be destroyed. So if humans are to survive it is a necessity. But what society or nation is at peace within itself? So go to the next level of bringing all people and all nations together, how are they going to be able to make a peaceful world? Won't it still have all the inner turmoil still going on?

So what do the Baha'is do at that point?

I find it very wonderful that you have already envisaged what must happen to obtain a lasting peace.

What you have suggested his has been foretold as a necessity that Humanity will have to acheive. It is also said the Peace and Security of Mankind is unattainable unless and until its Unity is firmly established. That is what the nations need to envoke, the elimination of prejudices.

As to the way Peace amongst Nations must be found, this passage from Baha'u'llah

"..The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. …The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have adopted one universal language and one common script. When this is achieved, to whatsoever city a man may journey, it shall be as if he were entering his own home. These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

To us it seems like they are trying to put a square peg in a round hole. They believe it does fit... And to prove it they force it in. But by forcing it, they've made the corners of the square peg round.

The one thought here is that it is more like a sizeable jigsaw puzzle. If the One God is the Creator, as Baha'u'llah has revealed, then the puzzle has been put together, it has no missing pieces and can now be seen by all.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't think Baha'is believe animal have a spirit/soul or whatever they call that eternal part of humans is that lives on. 'Cause part of the cycle does include all life forms doesn't it? So if Hinduism does include all life and Baha'is don't, then that is another problem of how each religion defines the spiritual reality.

That theory varies in Hinduism by schools. In my school, we see divinity in all things, but animals have a different type of soul than us. Only in rare cases do we inhabit an animal body.

 

[Vinayaka]

What the Baha'is don't seem to understand is that the way they are presenting their beliefs, it makes all other beliefs wrong. If a Baha'i and a Hindu was talking to, or be talked at, by a born-again Christian, the Christian would tell you how both of you are wrong and how they are right.

The Baha'i would argue, in love, that the Christian is wrong and has missed the return of their Messiah. But what would the Hindu say?

The Hindu would say, "Well, the three of us believe differently."

 

[Vinayaka]

In my experience it is always for both reasons. One can always learn more, "out of the mouth of babes" comes to mind, if you a re not aware of this saying, this link; Out of the mouths of babes

Regards Tony

Some people ask questions of others because they are curious, and want an answer. They are generally simple questions, like 'Which road is the temple on?"

But yes, teachers us the other kind all the time. It's often to test another's knowledge, or to start a discussion. In this thread, a more appropriate title may well have been ... 'This is How We Explain Manifestations'.

 

[RoaringSilence]

doing any action or desire - dont say you are hungry or thrifty etc... the actions and desires of the THIS body you have are because your own ancestors are demanding the price for giving you life.. so with such an understanding ... That i m greedy hungry thristy etc can be converted to paying hommage back to your fore fathers.. the more you practice this the more your Better gunnas will rule your mind..

when you eat food -say my father (s) - who all gave me life ..accept this as thank you from an obedient son..

 

[Vinayaka]

In the first and 2nd Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah, they tells us of the first 2 basic requirements that assist a soul upon its journey with knowing God. On reality it has nothing to do with anybody but ones own self.

"O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting."

"O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."

May all humanity know and Love God, a good way is to consider how all the great beings are explained. Regards Tony

These are excellent quotes. Too bad for the homosexuals, the atheists, the Covenant breakers, and more, I suppose. For me personally, all of humanity actually means all of humanity, without exceptions. But then we're talking about stuff that came from a time when slaves weren't considered people at all, so it's not surprising. Greek democracy was only for 'citizens' which was less than 10% of the people at that time as well.

 

[Vinayaka]

Some of our laws are not enforced as yet and the way they are enforced has yet to be decided. The laws about stoning in the earlier dispensations you may be aware were enforced when people didn't have penal institutions or hospitals, etc. Each community having with an elected Assembly can deal with behaviours exhibited by people and they do so with confidentiality and sometimes refer them to counseling or therapy for help.

Referring a homosexual for therapy contradicts modern understanding in the field.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So when it comes to religion, it is not unity in diversity, but to get rid of the diversity?

As for Bahai's, they are to socialize with the followers of all Religions. I quote Bahaullah:

"O people! Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship."

And again in another Tablet Bahaullah wrote:

"Consort with all men, O people of Bahá, in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship. If ye be aware of a certain truth, if ye possess a jewel, of which others are deprived, share it with them in a language of utmost kindliness and good-will. If it be accepted, if it fulfil its purpose, your object is attained. If any one should refuse it, leave him unto himself, and beseech God to guide him. Beware lest ye deal unkindly with him. A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding…."


So, Bahai must and are supposed to be able to socialize with followers of Religions.

However, there are many non-Bahais, who are in conflict with the followers of other sects and religions, and for centuries are killing each other.
Others may not be explicitly engaged in killing of other religions, but treat other religions as strangers, or unequally, due to the hidden fanaticism in their heart. They have caused religion to be the cause of war and disunity, and injustice.
For them, Unity is the solution Bahaullah ordians. Thus, Bahaullah who identified that one major cause of conflict has been religious fanatiism, has wished, that diversity of religion be ceased. In the site of Bahaullah, Truth is One. Diversity of religion does not work, because they have not been able to see all people with the eye of unity.

Farther Abdulbaha explained:

"His Holiness Bahá’u’lláh has announced that the foundation of all the religions of God is one; that oneness is truth and truth is oneness which does not admit of plurality. This teaching is new and specialized to this Manifestation.
He sets forth a new principle for this day in the announcement that religion must be the cause of unity, harmony and agreement among mankind. If it be the cause of discord and hostility, if it leads to separation and creates conflict, the absence of religion would be preferable in the world."

 

[Vinayaka]

As for Bahai's, they are to socialize with the followers of all Religions. I quote Bahaullah:

"O people! Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship."

So if a person is non-religious, or doesn't claim a religion, they're out? The no-religion crowd, or 'none' is the fastest growing 'religious' group on the planet. I realise that in Baha'u'llah's day there was no such thing, or he hadn't heard of it, but how can today's Baha'i's adapt to this fact, when they're limited to what the prophet said? How have you adapted, IT?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So if a person is non-religious, or doesn't claim a religion, they're out?

The same advice from Baha'u'llah is applicable.

Look for the good in all things, we have said that many times.

Regards Tony