How and why did you reject christ?

[Altfish]

How did you reject him?

Did you know him beforehand and then rejected him or just the idea of him because of lack of evidence?

Brought up going to Christian schools, attended Sunday School; studied Bible until about 13/14 years old. Then discovered science and never looked back

 

[izzy88]

Brought up going to Christian schools, attended Sunday School; studied Bible until about 13/14 years old. Then discovered science and never looked back

It's baffling to me how many atheists say that they became atheists in their teens - sometimes even earlier. And most of them haven't gone back and had a serious look at whatever faith they left behind since they left it, meaning they're trusting a child (themselves at that age) to have accurately understood complex theology.

Though, this explains why the "God" most atheists argue against is a low-resolution caricature of what the scriptures are actually talking about.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Everything you just said confirms what I said...



Got it.

Actually, how does it?

Saying a block full of text but not clarifying it just makes it a waste of time writing the post. Was it for me or was it a knee-jerk reaction to the OP?

 

[izzy88]

Actually, how does it?

Saying a block full of text but not clarifying it just makes it a waste of time talking about it. Was it for me or was it a knee-jerk reaction to the OP?

What could you possibly have needed me to clarify? Everything I said was very straightforward.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Brought up going to Christian schools, attended Sunday School; studied Bible until about 13/14 years old. Then discovered science and never looked back

I can't imagine growing up christian. Sometimes I think that's the problem in itself rather than the actual relationship with christ, god, etc and rejecting them. You get one impression of god but when understood as a practice and religion rather than ritual as an adult, it's a bit different.

I did have one Muslim told me one time he was glad that I didn't grow up in a faith because many people indoctrinated (can't remember his words) don't have a relationship (lbw) with their belief while those who come into as adults know what they believe-inside and out. So, as an adult, you are more likely to observe and "get it" beyond the surface whereas if you're grown into it and leave it, there's no reason to requestion it from another point of view.

Of course I'm theorizing. One has to be interested in it first.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What could you possibly have needed me to clarify? Everything I said was very straightforward.

If I took time to quote it, you'd problem cut the conversation or still be defensive about it or so have you....

 

[izzy88]

If I took time to quote it, you'd problem cut the conversation or still be defensive about it or so have you....

Cool. Good talk.

 

[Skwim]

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I was a nominal Christian at best, although as a young teen I did go to church and was confirmed a Lutheran; all pretty much at the insistence of my mother. After that I seldom went again; however, when I went into the military, for some unremembered reason I decided there was some truth to Christianity and took it up again, and even more earnestly. That lasted until I was discharged, came back home, and was given a book by my cousin called Why I Am NOT A Christian, by the philosopher Bertrand Russell. Russell very convincingly explains why god and immortality are bankrupt ideas, and why he doesn't think Jesus was such a neat guy or even all that wise. I read it, dropped Christianity like a hot coal from Hell, and never looked back.


My reading suggestion for the coronavirus sequestering. . . . . . If you dare.

​

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[Shadow Wolf]

The Bible does not talk about dead human beings naturally coming back to life;it talks about [bringing] dead people back to life.

People don't come back to life. It doesn't matter of you claim magic is involved. Its stilk the idea of dead people returning to life. It doesn't happen.

What are you basing this claim on?

If a few dead people returned to life in one area 8n the same time frame, people would have noticed, they would have talked, they wpuld have written. But there is no writings of it until decades after the fact.

Yes; slowly. And we do, in fact, see that word spread around the world in the first couple centuries about these Christians and their claims; we have plenty of records talking about them.

Thats a pretty slow spread. There'd be no Crusades if that was the normal speed that need spread then.

 

[Altfish]

It's baffling to me how many atheists say that they became atheists in their teens - sometimes even earlier. And most of them haven't gone back and had a serious look at whatever faith they left behind since they left it, meaning they're trusting a child (themselves at that age) to have accurately understood complex theology.

Though, this explains why the "God" most atheists argue against is a low-resolution caricature of what the scriptures are actually taking about.

I think you misjudge atheists; of course we have reviewed our decisions.
When you are a child you believe what you are told, at one time I believed in Father Xmas and the Tooth Fairy. Then you start asking questions and soon you realised that Father Xmas and the Tooth Fairy were man made.
When you go to senior school you are expected to think for yourself, work out problems, we were taught more and more complex science; all of a sudden the religious explanations looked shallow and at best dubious. Science explained things much better. We were left with a god of the gaps. Then you realised "I don't know" is a better answer than "God did it"

 

[QuestioningMind]

Its worded that way, about personal relationships with Christ, because thats what is taught to Christians. You can inserf your own perspective and assume it correct. In this instance it is wrong, and you have opened yourself up to numerous criticisms from Christians, notably your lack of understanding. But, I assure you, to those the question is intended the issue of a relationship with Christ is understood in proper context by us, no deluded or wonky stuff or splitting hairs needed.

Sorry. but you've completely missed my point. Surely you must see that you have to first define what you mean by 'reject Jesus'. Do you mean someone who believes that Jesus existed but rejects him as their savior or do you mean someone who rejects the notion that Jesus even existed?

Let's say I was raised as a Christian and taught that I needed to develop a relationship with Christ. For years I read the books I went to church and every night I would lay in bed and talk to Jesus. I had a personal relationship with Jesus and if anyone asked I wouldn't hesitate to tell them so. But then at some point in my life after reading through the bible for the fourth time, I start to see all sorts of contradictions and things that just don't make any logical sense to me. Eventually it occurs to me that I don't actually believe most of it and that when I would lay in bed at night chatting with Jesus, I was actually just talking to myself and deluding myself into believing that Jesus was answering. It has a devastating effect on me because it changes my entire world view, but try as I might I can't get myself to believe it again.

So it can be said that I have rejected Jesus. It's not that I believe Jesus actually existed and did some miraculous things and simply reject that he's my savior. I reject the notion that Jesus is even real.

In another post you basically asked someone if they had talked to Jesus to explain why you'd rejected him, the same way they would have had the courtesy of explaining to a good friend why you wanted to end a relationship with them. Don't you see that if this person has rejected the notion that Jesus even exists then it's nothing short of ridiculous to suggest that they explain to this imaginary Jesus why they're ending the relationship?

So again, I really think you need to clarify if you mean reject Jesus as a savior or reject the notion that Jesus ever existed.

 

[Altfish]

I can't imagine growing up christian. Sometimes I think that's the problem in itself rather than the actual relationship with christ, god, etc and rejecting them. You get one impression of god but when understood as a practice and religion rather than ritual as an adult, it's a bit different.

I did have one Muslim told me one time he was glad that I didn't grow up in a faith because many people indoctrinated (can't remember his words) don't have a relationship (lbw) with their belief while those who come into as adults know what they believe-inside and out. So, as an adult, you are more likely to observe and "get it" beyond the surface whereas if you're grown into it and leave it, there's no reason to requestion it from another point of view.

Of course I'm theorizing. One has to be interested in it first.

So why do all religions not ignore children and only preach to adults?
Wasn't it Aristotle or was St Francis Xavier who said "Give me the child until he is seven and I’ll give you the man"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sorry. but you've completely missed my point. Surely you must see that you have to first define what you mean by 'reject Jesus'. Do you mean someone who believes that Jesus existed but rejects him as their savior or do you mean someone who rejects the notion that Jesus even existed?

It was defined.

Why did you reject christ after having a genuine personal relationship with and his god?

That is welldefined and understood by the target audience - Apostates and believers alike know what is meant and it's understood.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is just riddled with misconceptions.

No. I just rejected christ based on my experiences. Nothing more than that.

You have a harder time believing in the Father than in Christ, because you believe in spirits? The Father is the spirit, Christ is the man, so it should be the opposite, shouldn't it? If you believe in spirits, wouldn't the spiritual God be easier to believe in than a man who performed miracles and rose from the dead?

No. I am not trinitarian. So, I do not believe jesus as god.

Of course, I believed jesus as spirit. I do believe in spirits. If not, there's no reason to go to Mass.

Would god be easier?

I have nothing to compare it to. Jesus I understand cause I read it in the bible. Even the jews can't/don't describe god. So, what is my object of comparison to know what I'm thinking in my head is the actual god christians believe in?

And the priest telling you he thinks you should wait to become Catholic is because you clearly don't actually believe in the things that you're required to believe as a Catholic. Why would you even want to join a religion you don't actually believe?

Correct. Long story. I've always loved the church when I was with my Roman Catholic friend. I read the bible and all but never was raised around it. I made a premature jump. Four years later I left. It was a realization.

It was actually a very good learning experience because now I know what it means to "be spiritual." That fulfillment or so have you I see and hear in many religious point of view. It's like being on the outside in.

If I knew what I know now, I'd probably never taken it. That would be an insult.

There's also no human sacrifice in Catholicism; there's a man voluntarily sacrificing his own life. To understand the fuller meaning of this event, you need a great deal of background on ancient Jewish culture, and the history of Israel and their rituals and beliefs.

Where have you got there is no human sacrifice in catholicism?

The whole christian faith is based on human sacrifice: the life, blood, and resurrection of christ. You can't resurrected unless you die. And christ died for all so that is, by definition, a sacrifice.

As for jewish beliefs, I don't know about jewish beliefs. But I do agree with them that christianity is a bastardized version of it.

Worshiping Jesus is also not worshiping a man, because his human nature is not the one we worship; we worship his divine nature, which simply coexisted with his human nature. He was both fully human and fully divine, according to the Church.

He has to be man in the flesh in order for you to worship and experience his sacrifice. He would not need to die (or even be around) if it was just "about his spirit."

Do you believe christ was a real person?

It's clear that you have an accurate understanding of virtually no aspect of the Catholic faith, which means you don't even know what it is you've rejected. That was the case with me when I left it behind as a teenager, yet after many years I've been lead back to it because I discovered that I had no idea what I was actually leaving behind. When I learned what the Church actually teaches, it all rang true for me based on everything I've learned and experienced in my life.

I doubt you're right cause RF is a HORRIBLE place to judge a person's spiritual experiences.

It is good that you came back to what your heart was pulled to.

Question.

What is wrong with rejection in christ?

Some people need him and others do not. It is what it is.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So why do all religions not ignore children and only preach to adults?
Wasn't it Aristotle or was St Francis Xavier who said "Give me the child until he is seven and I’ll give you the man"

??

 

[izzy88]

I think you misjudge atheists; of course we have reviewed our decisions.
When you are a child you believe what you are told, at one time I believed in Father Xmas and the Tooth Fairy. Then you start asking questions and soon you realised that Father Xmas and the Tooth Fairy were man made.
When you go to senior school you are expected to think for yourself, work out problems, we were taught more and more complex science; all of a sudden the religious explanations looked shallow and at best dubious. Science explained things much better. We were left with a god of the gaps. Then you realised "I don't know" is a better answer than "God did it"

The fact that you believe science and religion are in competition proves that you do not have an accurate understanding of what you've rejected; which, again, is not surprising when you're sticking with a decision you made as a child. And don't think I don't understand atheism; I was one for about a decade. I have never known an atheist to have an accurate understanding of the theology they rejected - including myself when I was one. That also includes the famous ones: Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennett, Harris; all of them have demonstrated a wildly inaccurate understanding of what they're claiming to be arguing against.

But I'm sure you're not going to believe me, because as I said, I've been there before. You cannot learn what you think you already know.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It was defined.
That is welldefined and understood by the target audience - Apostates and believers alike know what is meant and it's understood.

Hopefully most do. Debating over the question rather than answer is pretty tiresome.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Cool. Good talk.

I quoted you just a moment ago. Two things I noticed. One, you've judged my former relationship with christ and two, it seems like rejection is a bad thing to you.

Why the latter?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why did you reject christ after having a genuine personal relationship with and his god?

Why did you reject Athene after having a genuine personal relationship with her father?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Pushing a bit further. Would you just leave someone on earth if you no longer loved them (or however positive feelings you have for them) or would you have a chit chat or something to close that relationship (if it was a personal one)?

It's like you are unable to comprehend what it means to not believe something.

Maybe forget jesus for a moment here and change the subject to someone else that carries less emotional baggage with you, so that you may see the flaw in your reasoning.

Take Santa Claus for example. I don't know if you believe in santa as a child, but certainly you are aware about children believing it and can identify with that somehow, right?

So, when the day comes that you no longer believe that santa exists... would you have an exit-chat with this (as far as you are concerned) non-existing being? Off course you wouldn't... why would you try and have a conversation with an entity that you don't even believe eixsts.... there's nothing there to talk to, after all.

So maybe think it through...
Sure, you can ask someone why they don't believe or why they left whatever religion...
But your follow up questions here are rather absurd.