How and why did you reject christ?

[BilliardsBall]

All that "nobody can keep the laws"/"Jesus "fulfilled" the law"/"we're all sinners who can't repent without being born again first"/ etc nonsense.
Not to mention a whole bunch of flaws in Jesus.

You have zero proof for that, other than the claims of a band of nut-jobs from that era.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Same.

It is quite unfortunate that you don't know Hebrew very well.

Again, since I deny your misinterpretation of the Tanach, I don't like you claiming the Rambam said things that he did not say nor imply things that he did not imply. Again, it's unfortunate that you don't understand how the Hebrew language works.

I have, but hey, classic Christian, ignoring what's in front of your eyes. You know, Ramban (with an N) won a debate against a convert to Christianity much like yourself. The local Christians were so furious that they kicked Ramban out of town.
Disputation of Barcelona

Good to know.

תינוק שנשבה isn't an insult. I do in fact feel sorry for you.

Well, since we know where we both stand, I'll be taking my leave from this thread now. Have a pleasant day.

Pardon me, of course, Ramban. Yachid is never used in Tanakh, not once, for God, but most often, for a unique and only son! Echad is what is used hundreds of times. How is this affected by "my knowledge of Hebrew"?

Echad is plural oneness, a good example for you might be Genesis 2:24.

Thank you.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm really not interested in the meaning of the sevens in Daniel. I don't believe we know what it is. Jewish theology may have other ideas. I am not educated enough in Jewish prophecy to give an adequate answer.

I asked you for Messianic Prophecies. No one in Christian history thinks that the date for the Messiah can be nailed down. Don't you think if it were this easy, that your Christian scriptures would mention it? But no, the writers of your Christian scriptures did not consider this evidence.

I asked you for your best so-called prophecy because the bulk of Christian so-called prophecies are not prophecies at all, or they are quoted out of context by Chrisitans, or misquoted, or simply made up. I wanted to enlighten you to these things.

Christians need to be familiar with the Jewish perspective, because in your ignorance of the Tanakh and of Judaism, it appears to you that it is more than obvious Jesus is the Messiah, and Jews must be crazy not to believe. Well, we are a long ways from crazy, and you need to be familiar with what we think if you are going to argue for your beliefs with Jews.

Huh? I'm a Messianic Jew. Go back and read all my statements as if you're actually reading what I wrote, "like WE JEWS believe"... I mean, I can hardly believe you wrote, "in your ignorance of the Tanakh and of Judaism" since I've prior written to you that I was circumcised on the eighth day in my home and was Bar Mitzvah at arguably America's most prominent synagogue! It's bad enough that you do not answer any question I suggest to you, but its worse if you're going to make an inference or attack without even listening to me.

1) An argument from silence does not negate the decree to rebuild Jerusalem or the date Messiah died.

2) Tanakh never says ALL Gentiles will pursue/trust Messiah, it says "Gentiles". 2/3 of Gentiles currently regard Jesus as a sinless prophet or God, fulfilling this prophecy (made multiple times in Tanakh by various writers). 2/3 of the PLANET EARTH is sure a lot of Gentiles!

3) I can walk away from God but not salvation. Both testaments agree. King David had killed a man to cover adultery and said "restore unto me the joy of my salvation," and not "restore unto me my salvation" (Psalm 53). Of course, you will have to tell me what you think "salvation" is, because it's not reincarnation after a period of up to 11 months or so... Salvation is an IRREVOCABLE gift, so how can I "walk away from it"?

4) I'm not buying your "really uninterested in what the sevens are in Daniel", because, let's face it, there are implications for disbelief/belief in this fulfilled prophecy. You cannot have it both ways by saying "Christians get Tanakh prophecy wrong" and also, "I don't know or care what the 69 7s of Daniel are, but they cannot possibly equal the exact 483 biblical years between the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the Pesach when Yeshua died," -- bit of a coincidence otherwise, yes, that Jesus died on THAT day prophesied by Daniel? No, to be consistent, to be logical, to be fair, if you insist all Christian interpretations of all Messianic prophecies fail, you MUST give a logical alternative to the statement in Daniel that after 69 7s MESSIAH WOULD BE CUT OFF.

The main thing is this--I'm delighted you are studying to know more about our shared Jewish faith. Do you feel Tanakh is God's Word to man, or rife with error/the work of mere men and women only?

Thanks.

 

[syo]

How'd you come to that conclusion?

Was there legistics involved or did you all of the sudden dropped it?

I've read the new testament. It is fiction.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've read the new testament. It is fiction.

How did you come to that conclusion?

It being fiction (or nonfiction) is fine statement. Though that doesn't explain how you got to that conclusion.

 

[syo]

How did you come to that conclusion?

It being fiction (or nonfiction) is fine statement. Though that doesn't explain how you got to that conclusion.

The new testament speaks nonsense. And there never was a real man Jesus. Jesus is a fiction character, like a novel of Agatha Christie.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The new testament speaks nonsense. And there never was a real man Jesus. Jesus is a fiction character, like a novel of Agatha Christie.

That's a claim. Can you support that statement true?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I was thinking of saint Francis as a confirmation saint. I picked Grutrude since my sponsor mentioned it wasnt too common. I found gutrude is a pegatory saint. I like the nature and Francis thought.

Whose your patron saint?

Joan of Arc was my confirmation Saint. I take both her and Francis as my patrons.

 

[metis]

Joan of Arc was my confirmation Saint. I take both her and Francis as my patrons.

With me, it's St. Thomas More, despite his flaws earlier on in his life.

 

[Riders]

I started breaking away from Christianity when I first started breaking away from the Pentecostal church . I got involved with a church that taught women to wear a strict dress code. We had to wear long dresses, not cut or trim our hair, no coloring it, no makeup no jewelry and we wore our hair pulled back.

We had to speak in tongues and be baptized their way to be saved. So when I broke away from that I was still a Christiaan. However they taught oneness Godhead instead of the Trinity and that the guy who first came up with the Trinity who was head of the Catholic church, made a [pact with Pagans to bring in the Ploytheistic God with the Trinity Godhead.


SO after I got out of church although I did visit other Christian churches I came to believe in the idea proposed by the Pagan Jesus book. So I did not reject Jesus, I just don't believe he was God anymore. It was a Pagan myth made up by Pagans to teach Paganism to Jewish folks is what it was.

But Jesus did live, he was a man who got persecuted and put on the cross, but he was not God. He was one of the Messiahs at the time. HE was A Messiah but not God. He was a good prophet.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Huh? I'm a Messianic Jew. Go back and read all my statements as if you're actually reading what I wrote, "like WE JEWS believe"... I mean, I can hardly believe you wrote, "in your ignorance of the Tanakh and of Judaism"

Messianic Judaism is NOT Judaism. Virtually all Jews would say that it is Christianity. I am somewhat more generous in saying that it is a SYNCRETISTIC new religion, but still not Judaism. You cannot be Judaism and worship Jesus, or believe that he is the Messiah. MJ interprets the Tanakh in a Christian manner, not a Jewish manner. Etc. That you think MJ is Judaism shows your ignorance of Judaism.

I'm not trying to be hostile to you, I accept you as a Jew if you are born of a halakhically Jewish mom, but if you are MJ you are apostate, and have forfeited your rights as a Jew (cannot testify in a Jewish court of law, cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery, etc.) It grieves my heart that you have left the faith of your people.

The main thing is this--I'm delighted you are studying to know more about our shared Jewish faith. Do you feel Tanakh is God's Word to man, or rife with error/the work of mere men and women only?

Thanks.

Both really. I think first that the early parts of the Torah begin with myth, progress to legend, and then go on to history. Further, I believe that there are transcription errors, and scientific errors. However, NONE OF THAT means that it is not the Word of God. I take it on faith that it is the Word of God, and sufficient to determine the identity of the Jewish People and our covenant.

 

[syo]

That's a claim. Can you support that statement true?

How?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How?

I've never in my whole life believed in scripture so how, for me, is pretty much ignorance of it. But you knew the scripture well enough to call Jesus a lier and nonsense. Usually, we get opinions about people and things after good thought and reasoning. Just saying he is a lier and nonesense is not enough. That's like saying good exists and the Bible is true. Both are claims but what is the substance and reasoning behind your claim.

 

[syo]

I've never in my whole life believed in scripture so how, for me, is pretty much ignorance of it. But you knew the scripture well enough to call Jesus a lier and nonsense. Usually, we get opinions about people and things after good thought and reasoning. Just saying he is a lier and nonesense is not enough. That's like saying good exists and the Bible is true. Both are claims but what is the substance and reasoning behind your claim.

The new testament speaks of impossible situations. So it's fiction.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The new testament speaks of impossible situations. So it's fiction.

You mentioned Jesus as fictional, how?

Why would he be fictional?
What would happen if he was a real person?

 

[syo]

You mentioned Jesus as fictional, how?

Why would he be fictional?
What would happen if he was a real person?

He is said to be born of a virgin mother. Fiction. He arose from dead. Fiction. Agatha Christie wrote better than Mark etc.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He is said to be born of a virgin mother. Fiction. He arose from dead. Fiction. Agatha Christie wrote better than Mark etc.

He actually said this or it's just written?

Books can say anything. Did he you this?

 

[syo]

He actually said this or it's just written?

Books can say anything. Did he you this?

I have absolutely no reason to believe Jesus is real.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have absolutely no reason to believe Jesus is real.

I know. My question is, though, if he isn't real how did he lie?

If you never had a relationship with him because he isn't real, how do you form opinions of his state of mind and ethics?

 

[syo]

I know. My question is, though, if he isn't real how did he lie?

If you never had a relationship with him because he isn't real, how do you form opinions of his state of mind and ethics?

I was taught he is real when I was a student at school. I was forced to have an opinion about him and his ethics. Later, I read the nt and I understood he is bogus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I was taught he is real when I was a student at school. I was forced to have an opinion about him and his ethics. Later, I read the nt and I understood he is bogus.

Have you thought of other ways to look at Christ apart from what you've been taught?