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- Thread starter Big_TJ
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
if everyone was living by biblical principles and laws, there would be no murderers.
That's true, but my question was about our living in a society that runs on biblical principles; not about everyone living by biblical principles. We know that, in any society, there will be individuals that will function contrary to what the society would expect (eg.. there are Christians living in Saudi Arabia).
So, while I appreciate your reply, my question is not really answered by your response.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i think things would be pretty much as they are right now considering the laws of the western world are built on biblical principles.
On the other hand, if we were living in a world governed by Jehovah God, then everyone alive would actually apply those principles and the world would be a very different place.
So, if our society was run based on biblical principles, we would still be judging murders and sentencing them accordingly; correct?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
that depends on who is in charge.
In a world governed by imperfect men, and ruled by Satan the devil, then yes. We will continue to have a need to judge murderers and sentence them and jail them.
But if we were in a world governed by God and ruled by God himself, then no. Why? Because anyone who did such a thing would be removed from this earth and they would not be permitted to exist.
Ps 37:*9 For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth
We would not be the ones who would 'cut someone off' from the earth. God himself would do so and they would be gone permanently. This is why we believe that only Gods kingdom is our hope for a secure peaceful future. If we continue to be self governed, we will never have peace and harmony on earth.
'Let your Kingdom Come, let your will take place on earth as it is in heaven'
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That's what I thought.. So, in other words, if our society should be ran solely on biblical/Christian principles, and a person kills another, or rape our children, we should allow them to walk around, continue killing and raping until God "cut them off the earth" [or until God kills them]; correct? Would that be practical; meaning, would we want to live in a society that is so organized?
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
If we are serious about being ruled by God, then yes. We should allow him to be the arbitrator, judge and executioner of mankind.
Because very soon he will be.
hmmm... Ok thank you.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
you know, ISIS is acting as arbitrator judge and executioner over in Iraq... who would you prefer?
God implores us to turn to him for our leadership because you can't trust imperfect men to be your guides and rulers. Look around the world and see the result of independence from God.... its not a pretty picture.
Eccl 8:9 All of this I have seen, and I applied my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his harm
Time to end the madness??
Our only hope is for God to restore peace and security in this world. Thats why we submit to him and promote his kingdom as the real solution to mankinds problems.
But here is the problem that I have with what you are suggesting we do: We all (I think) agree that the actions of ISIS (well it is IS now:yes
is deplorable. But, under your prescription of a Christian-principled society, we should just allow ISIS to keep doing what they are doing until "Jehovah is ready to wipe them off the face of the earth."In my opinion, this thought process is even more dangerous than what ISIS is presently doing.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
But here is the problem that I have with what you are suggesting we do: We all (I think) agree that the actions of ISIS (well it is IS now:yes
In my opinion, this thought process is even more dangerous than what ISIS is presently doing.
I guess it depends on who we put our faith in. Some people trust people, others trust God.
From what i've learned, God will not permit these things to continue. And for those of us who may loose our lives in the coming tribulation, God will restore all of us.
So i'm not going to support a war with IS. Im going to continue to make peace as best I can. Anyone who chooses to fight will die fighting anyway.
So here is what you seems to be proposing: When Jehovah warns Adam that if he eat from a certain tree, he will die that same day; he died 900 years afterwards. So if we are to allow ISIS to keep killing and maiming, hoping that God will "wipe them off this earth" one of these days, it is conceivable that ISIS may be killing and maiming for the next 900 years.
Why would it be Christian view be to allow this? And even if the leaders of ISIS are caught, it would be a Christian view that they are not to be judged by mankind?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the answer is as to why this is the christian view is very simple:
Its not for us to try to control the actions of our fellow man. We are not Gods police. We are not Gods judges and executioners.
That is for God to contend with and we trust that he will do what needs to be done.
Noted.. Just to point out; this is not really a Christian view; its really the view of a minority number of denominations within Christianity.
Jensen
Active Member
My response would be that this kingdom ruled by God will not occur until God's future Kingdom is set up here on earth after Jesus' return, and it will be inhabited by only believers who would not want to do wrong such as was stated above, but people that will only do the will of God, and so there will not be these horrendous crimes mentioned. In the meantime we will be ruled by man, and therefore imperfectly.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Yes, thats all true. And its what the scriptures foretell as what will occur during the final part of the days of mans rulership on earth... notice what was foretold
Micah 4:1 In the final part of the days,
The mountain of the house of Jehovah
Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,
And it will be raised up above the hills,
And to it peoples will stream.
*2 And many nations will go and say:
Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah
And to the house of the God of Jacob.
He will instruct us about his ways,
And we will walk in his paths.
For law will go out of Zion,
And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.
*3 He will render judgment among many peoples
And set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning shears.
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
Nor will they learn war anymore.
Jensen did you notice the 'timing' of when all these people from all these nations would go up to the house of Jehovah to worship him?
But the bible told us, the imperfect beings, that we should not judge. So, if we, as imperfect beings are trying to live by this biblical principle, how should we deal with a rapist?
Pegg suggested that we just allow them to keep raping until Jehovah decide to wipe them from the face of the earth; what's your take on this?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
No, i did not suggest that.
Our governments have police forces to handle criminals. All im suggesting is that its for the authorities to deal with, not us.
Actually, what you say now is different than what you said when you replied to that question in post # 14. So i am now a bit confused about what your position is.