Hostility towards Christianity

[Scuba Pete]

Yes Scorn, we see a definite pattern here. At least I do.

There is much about Christianity that non-Christians merely assume or ascribe to all Christians. Were I to do this to any other religion, like if I were to say "All athiests are arrogant!", then I would be villified for my bigotry. Why should we not say the same things about those who over-generalise about Christianity?

When you erroneously ascribe intent (judgement) to a simple act of someone divulging THEIR personal feelings, I feel compelled to show you the hypocrisy inherent in your statement. You would paint evangelism as some sort of subversive act bent on condemning you to sheol. When in actuality you have chosen your current path... not me, and not the person who wished you would be Christian.

Using your philosophy, we would should call the man crying fire in a burning building as arrogant and judgemental. How dare you tell me that you "would wish that I were outside of the building like you"!"How arrogant of you to imply that MY body is in peril".

The pattern I see, is an outright resentment of a group of people who feel that they have found the light, because by deduction, they are saying that you haven't. Are you suggesting that they should change their belief to protect your delicate sensibilities? Why are so intent in foisting your beliefs on others like that? Aren't you secure enough in your own beliefs to allow others their own? Sounds suspiciously narrow minded to me!

 

[linwood]

The pattern I see, is an outright resentment of a group of people who feel that they have found the light, because by deduction, they are saying that you haven't. Are you suggesting that they should change their belief to protect your delicate sensibilities? Why are so intent in foisting your beliefs on others like that? Aren't you secure enough in your own beliefs to allow others their own? Sounds suspiciously narrow minded to me!

With all due respect NetDoc the hypocrisy in that last paragraph is palpable.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Using your philosophy, we would should call the man crying fire in a burning building as arrogant and judgemental. How dare you tell me that you "would wish that I were outside of the building like you"!"How arrogant of you to imply that MY body is in peril".

That is the arrogance I am talking about, who says the man who yells "fire" knows what he is talking about in the first place, if I see no flames or smell no smoke should I run outside out of baseless fear? To me, that is the reason many flock to the "Christ"- fear of their own mortality and the unknown.

The pattern I see, is an outright resentment of a group of people who feel that they have found the light, because by deduction, they are saying that you haven't. Are you suggesting that they should change their belief to protect your delicate sensibilities? Why are so intent in foisting your beliefs on others like that? Aren't you secure enough in your own beliefs to allow others their own? Sounds suspiciously narrow minded to me!

It doesn't matter to me what anyone believes, but if by their own doing fueled by their beliefs negatively affects my current reality (as I pointed out in my origional post with regards to science, technology and culture ) then the representatives of that belief are deserving of what they have given, you need to read some history. You seem to want to cast yourself and your beliefs as a "victim", throughout history people with Christian based beliefs have been in turn victims and victimizers, I feel no pity for you and expect none from you.

 

[Scorn]

You seem to forget this thread has a title and we, who may fear our words are taken as hostility toward Christians must somehow rationalize our opinions to the question asked. If you don't happen to like the answers, that's fair. If you know for certain that I, in fact, don't feel as though someone is judging me, I'd like to know what your opinion of my knowledge of the term might be based on. And how you are able to decipher my experiences better than I. My statements are neither erroneous nor hypocritical. They are based on my experience and I've stated as much twice now. Had I claimed that I thought NetDoc was judgmental than I'd think you'd most certainly have a case. You seem to think I (we) want to paint all of Christianity with the same brush yet to want to defend it with that same broad brush. You seem clear in suggesting I don't understand what the word judgment means (or rather those that feel the same as I) and that Dr. No also misunderstands the term arrogance. Excuse me for feeling a slight insult...or am I misunderstanding that term as well?





And just for the record, if I really felt a resentment toward Christians I would not spend my time engaging in discussion on this message board. The fact that I raise questions or argue a point does not make me bigoted or resentful. Just curious and interested.

 

[Scuba Pete]

With all due respect NetDoc

Subtle sarcasm escapes many. Don't let it bother you.

if I see no flames or smell no smoke should I run outside out of baseless fear?

By all means stay. Many have perished using your logic. Just don't blame the man for "condemning you" with your last breath.

You seem to think I (we) want to paint all of Christianity with the same brush

You have done an incredible job convincing me of this.

must somehow rationalize our opinions

That is amazingly insightful. Do you realise what you just said?

They are based on my experience and I've stated as much twice now.

Whether they are based on your experience or not... you have assigned intent to the person who made the comment. Did you ASK if the person was judging you? Did they sign some sort of document condemning you to hell? If not, then you made an assumption. You have now shared that assumption. I contend your assumption is fallacious and based on an emotional bias. I also contend that you are showing the same "judgemental" attitude as the person who made the original statement. Condemning someone for traits that you exibit is hypocrisy.

 

[Scorn]

Well I guess I'll just have to bring it up with my family, (again) and make certain that when they suggest I am somehow less without Christ that they didn't actually mean to judge me.

As for this argument I suppose I'm done. You win. I know that seems somehow passive aggressive of me but I'm sure I don't really understand that term either.

 

[Scuba Pete]

if I really felt a resentment toward Christians

For the record, sometimes people don't see their own bias, especially if it's subtle. I am not accusing you (or any here) of leading anti-Christian crusades and desiring that I along with all who believe were to be burned at the stake.

But there is an obvious anti-Christian bias. It's loosely based on those who claim to be Christian and who don't live the life. It's very easy to do, and is in vogue right now, along with blaming all muslims for what happened on 9/11. It's purely a human reaction to pigeon hole entire genres of people who don't believe the same as you. We call them names and assign attitudes and feelings to them without ever trying to learn the truth behind their actions.

But that doesn't make it right.

 

[Scorn]

Edit:

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

By all means stay. Many have perished using your logic. Just don't blame the man for "condemning you" with your last breath.

So what are you really saying NetDoc? don't beat around the bush.

I am interested in hearing about the anti- Christian bias that is in "vogue" now, from whom and from where? Is it anything like the "vast right-wing conspiracy"?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Dr No...

Just go read post #77 of this thread!

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Just go read post #77 of this thread!

I suggest you reread it yourself and actually debate it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

don't beat around the bush.

I have never been accused of beating around the bush... though I have been accused of bashing Bush.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

I have never been accused of beating around the bush... though I have been accused of bashing Bush.

So you don't want to play anymore?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I discussed it's various falacies in posts #78, #81 and #85. What point did you make that I have overlooked? Instead of merely rattling your sword and asking for a debate, please continue with the observations that I have made, or restate the observations you think that I missed. Either you didn't make them stand out, I failed to see them, I addressed them already, or I didn't think they were worth discussing. Re-reading your post did not help me to understand your position any better.

EDIT: But first I must take care of the Gator that is encroaching on my yard. He has invited my cat for dinner and she is astutely studying him from about twenty feet. Her expression is funny, but it's time to play Whack-a-Gator.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

I discussed it's various falacies in posts #78, #81 and #85. What point did you make that I have overlooked? {break} Either you didn't make them stand out, I failed to see them, I addressed them already

Your discussion of the "fallacies" in my post were basically that I am a "Christophobe", that a man who yells fire should be heeded, and that I shouldn't blame someone for "condemning" me (in the context, condemning meaning that somewhere in my posts I said anything about feeling condemnation by them, which is false) You never addressed them, you either sidetracked or falsified your argument to suit your need.

 

[linwood]

I am not accusing you (or any here) of leading anti-Christian crusades and desiring that I along with all who believe were to be burned at the stake.

Is this hypocrisy again or more subtle sarcasm?
I just can`t decide.

But there is an obvious anti-Christian bias. It's loosely based on those who claim to be Christian and who don't live the life. It's very easy to do, and is in vogue right now,

We`re back to the "No True Christian" argument here.
Are you suggesting the Pope isn`t a "true" Christian?
If someone does something in the name of Christianity and claims to be Christian who the hell am I to say they aren`t?
Maybe we need to define what a "true" Christian is.

It`s not in vogue right now Christianity has held these intolerable traits for it`s entire existence...almost.

To use your example of Muslims and 9/11 I would have to say that yes those terrorists are Muslims.
Yes Bin Laden is Muslim...yes.

You cannot deny the affects of the religion simply because you define it differently.

There are nice Muslims and nasty Muslims, there are nice Christians and nasty Christians, there are nice atheists and nasty atheists.

Net Doc, is the Pope a "true" Christian?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Net Doc, is the Pope a "true" Christian?

Having never asked the Pope, I am sure I am not qualified to answer this question. That is entirely between Jesus and the Pope.

If someone does something in the name of Christianity and claims to be Christian who the hell am I to say they aren`t?

This is precisely where Satan shows his ugly head. He causes evil people to claim to be Christian and so confuses the pediddle out of others.

Linwood, what if I showed you that these types of "false Christians" were prophesied about in the Scriptures? That way, you would at least be assured that it's not just NetDoc who says that you shouldn't listen to them.

 

[linwood]

Having never asked the Pope, I am sure I am not qualified to answer this question. That is entirely between Jesus and the Pope.

:biglaugh:
Ok, I`ll let it go but you see my point.

Linwood, what if I showed you that these types of "false Christians" were prophesied about in the Scriptures? That way, you would at least be assured that it's not just NetDoc who says that you shouldn't listen to them.

NetDoc,
I know the scripture you`re speaking of but it doesn`t really matter.
For what it`s worth I am in agreement with you about how many who call themselves Christian don`t act like it as far as I can tell.
I mentioned it earlier in this thread.

However, I have to listen to them because they are the "Christians" who are attempting to influence my life.

If I don`t pay attention to them pretty soon my kids will be ignorant, my gay friends will have second class standing in my culture, I myself will be considered something less than an "American" due to my lack of belief, and I`ll probably end up with "In God We Trust" tattooed on my ***.

I can`t ignore it and when I confront it I am a "God hating heretic" or worse.
I can`t win for losing .
:help:

 

[Melody]

I myself will be considered something less than an "American" due to my lack of belief, and I`ll probably end up with "In God We Trust" tattooed on my ***.
:help:

No worries on the last one....they consider tattoos a sin too.

 

[linwood]

No worries on the last one....they consider tattoos a sin too.

:biglaugh::biglaugh:

Melody I just want to tell you I`ve attempted to frubal you for numerous posts the past few days but it keeps telling me I can`t frubal you.

I owe you.