Hostility towards Christianity

[Scuba Pete]

There is no debating your personal hostilities. They are yours and yours alone.

 

[robtex]

I must say that you are highly evangelized. I live in TX, very close to the two largest seminaries in the world (Southwestern Baptist and Brite Divinity School), and I have never had strangers ask me about my religion. Maybe God is seeking you out. Most of us don't get that kind of full-scale assault. :biglaugh:

EDIT: Furthermore, you know so much about Christianity that you would make a very educated pastor. Maybe the Christian God wants you in His service. :162:

two footnotes. I got most of them as a UU. I am only recenty an atheist...i was kinda of an undefined God-sounds good kinda guy before. But I reject Jesus as my savior which garner the same results. I have a muslim friend Reza who probably gets it much worse. His war God (allah ) is the opposing war God of the Christians. I should ask him one day.

Two questions for you though in regards to your reply.

1) do you openly have Christian things about you, crosses on your desk or around your neck. a bible in your car (ok truth be told i have a bible in the car I am rereading the nt after finishing the ot a year ago), a Bible qoute in a public place like your cubical or desk, or auto as a sticker? If you sit down and think it out how many times have you asked someone (upon seeing no christian crosses or qoutes about them) which church they go to which bible passage is their favorite, or given a person whose religion you do not know Bible advice, (aka advice from Jesus) to them to solve their problems?

2) I have that list cause about 5 years ago I was curious about it, not offended just curious so I recorded it. This was before I was an atheist. Long long before. I imagine it is only going to go south from here. Those numbers I came up with are not made up but recorded and for fun maybe over the course of this year you can do the same. Of course it will be Christian to Christian so the results will be differnt but just as fun or academic purposes only. Just record on a day-to-day basis how many times Jesus is brought up to you or Christianity and in what context. Than record the medium..ie phone (me never on phn ) internet, work home ect....I promise I didn't pull those numbers out of thin air.

And the yahoo thing. I only put atheist on there this year. In the beginning of Jan. I was getting burn in hell as a UU which makes me wonder if other UU's get that from them to. They would ask me if I accept JC is my savior and apparently no is the wrong anwer.

 

[Melody]

1) do you openly have Christian things about you, crosses on your desk or around your neck. a bible in your car (ok truth be told i have a bible in the car I am rereading the nt after finishing the ot a year ago), a Bible qoute in a public place like your cubical or desk, or auto as a sticker? If you sit down and think it out how many times have you asked someone (upon seeing no christian crosses or qoutes about them) which church they go to which bible passage is their favorite, or given a person whose religion you do not know Bible advice, (aka advice from Jesus) to them to solve their problems?

Oh dear....I answered no to all of the above. I don't even have stuff like that all over my house although I do have several Bibles (different versions). No bible quotes, crosses, bumper stickers, etc.

Have to admit that I don't do the bumper sticker thing just in case I regress to my pre-Christian days and flip someone off. I haven't done it in awhile, but...... I don't want to be a bad example

 

[Scuba Pete]

Melody,

I am the same way. I have NONE of the entrapments of the modern day Christian Advertiser. In fact, the only Bible I carry anymore is on a single CD!

 

[BUDDY]

1) do you openly have Christian things about you, crosses on your desk or around your neck. a bible in your car (ok truth be told i have a bible in the car I am rereading the nt after finishing the ot a year ago), a Bible qoute in a public place like your cubical or desk, or auto as a sticker? If you sit down and think it out how many times have you asked someone (upon seeing no christian crosses or qoutes about them) which church they go to which bible passage is their favorite, or given a person whose religion you do not know Bible advice, (aka advice from Jesus) to them to solve their problems?

I said no to all of these. Does that make me a bad Christian? I don't think that crosses around the neck are all that great personally. Somehow I don't think that is something JC wants to see when he comes back. It would be like walking up to Jacqueline Kennedy with a sniper rifle around your neck. I know that sounds insensitive, but I just tend to focus a lot more on his life. As for the Bible question, I keep one in my car too, but it is out of laziness. I keep it their so I have it when I go to church. That way I don't have to haul it back and forth from the house, and I don't forget it either. Plus, I have a couple more inside anyway. I usually don't ask people what church they go to. Unless I am new in town, and looking for someplace myself, then I might. Otherwise, no I don't start religious conversations. I JUST FINISH THEM - ROCK!!:jam: Just kidding.

 

[Prima]

It would be like walking up to Jacqueline Kennedy with a sniper rifle around your neck

That comparison made me laugh so hard. I agree, partly. I can't stand it when people wear crosses because they look cool. You want to wear a symbol, know what it means and believe it. </rant>

 

[Nick Soapdish]

How would a Christian respond if one suggested "I hope you find your way away from Jesus."

Depends on what I felt the motivation for the suggestion was.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Christians for the most part are so far from following Jesus`s example the hypocrisy is enough to make one wet themselves with laughter.

Just out of curiousity, would it make a difference if a Christian did do a good job of following Jesus's example? The reason I ask is because it seems to me that you have some fundamental differences with the morality taught by Jesus.

When that tyrant or suffering is caused by Christianity those people turn elsewhere.

This is why I believe in the separation of church and state. The church can be corrupted by those in power who seek to use it for their own selfish purposes. Many times in history people's wrongful actions were accomplished by pursuading the institutions of religion to either endorse those actions or carry them out. But anything under the true following of Christianity does not cause unjust suffering or tyranny.

 

[robtex]

Melody,

I am the same way. I have NONE of the entrapments of the modern day Christian Advertiser. In fact, the only Bible I carry anymore is on a single CD!

I have 5 bibles and two crosses in my home. I also have a copy of the koran and a few buddhist books lying around plus UU literature and hindu lit in my home. But it is in my home. What I mean is that I dont' take it out and try to educate my co-workers neighbor s and friends on UU, buddhism, (especially sensei dogan he rules!), hinduism or secular humanism.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Well.

In my home, I have a ton of religious books in my Den, but they are not out in the open. I have many diverse books, including the Book or Mormon, a book on Budhism, one on understanding the Kuran and a few other diverse faiths.

But if people can't tell by my life that I am a Christian, then I am truly lost. I don't care that they can tell WHAT I believe in... only that there is something different about me.

 

[Melody]

Melody,

I am the same way. I have NONE of the entrapments of the modern day Christian Advertiser. In fact, the only Bible I carry anymore is on a single CD!

A "single" CD? Wow! I just bought the NIV on CD so that when my eyes are tired at night, I can still "read" the Bible.....but there must be 20 CD's in this case!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

two footnotes. I got most of them as a UU. I am only recenty an atheist...i was kinda of an undefined God-sounds good kinda guy before. But I reject Jesus as my savior which garner the same results. I have a muslim friend Reza who probably gets it much worse. His war God (allah ) is the opposing war God of the Christians. I should ask him one day.

Two questions for you though in regards to your reply.

1) do you openly have Christian things about you, crosses on your desk or around your neck. a bible in your car (ok truth be told i have a bible in the car I am rereading the nt after finishing the ot a year ago), a Bible qoute in a public place like your cubical or desk, or auto as a sticker? If you sit down and think it out how many times have you asked someone (upon seeing no christian crosses or qoutes about them) which church they go to which bible passage is their favorite, or given a person whose religion you do not know Bible advice, (aka advice from Jesus) to them to solve their problems?

2) I have that list cause about 5 years ago I was curious about it, not offended just curious so I recorded it. This was before I was an atheist. Long long before. I imagine it is only going to go south from here. Those numbers I came up with are not made up but recorded and for fun maybe over the course of this year you can do the same. Of course it will be Christian to Christian so the results will be differnt but just as fun or academic purposes only. Just record on a day-to-day basis how many times Jesus is brought up to you or Christianity and in what context. Than record the medium..ie phone (me never on phn ) internet, work home ect....I promise I didn't pull those numbers out of thin air.

And the yahoo thing. I only put atheist on there this year. In the beginning of Jan. I was getting burn in hell as a UU which makes me wonder if other UU's get that from them to. They would ask me if I accept JC is my savior and apparently no is the wrong anwer.

No, I do not wear crosses, carry a Bible, nor do I have a fish on my car :bonk: . No one has even knocked on my door, except for JW's and Mormons... no Chrisitan witness, no one telling me that I am going to hell or sharing orthodox Christian witness. So I must edit my previous statement about having no strangers ask me about my religion. I have had no Christians ask me or engage me in conversation, in which case I may pretend to be of another faith just for fun! :162:

I am pretty discreet about my faith, and normally only share it when I am asked why I do some funny stuff that I do. For example, when I am invited to a topless bar, I kindly tell the guys that I don't go in honor of the teachings of Christ. There are countless other examples like that one that give opportunity for me to share. Now, when someone comes into my home, there can be little mistake as to my thological leanings. I only have one cross, but I have a massive theological library in my office. Like you, I have the holy books of many faiths, but I have many more books on Christian theology and interpretation.

Now debating on the forum is a different story altogether. I am not ashamed of my faith, and I am well aware of its evidences, philosophical proofs (and lacks thereof), and its relationship to other fields (such as science, ethics, and philosophy).

Have fun!!

 

[linwood]

Just out of curiousity, would it make a difference if a Christian did do a good job of following Jesus's example? The reason I ask is because it seems to me that you have some fundamental differences with the morality taught by Jesus.

That would depend on which version of Jesus`s morality we are talking about.
I was implying the commonly held perception of Christ loving his neighbor, loving the sinner, and preaching subjective morality as he does in Mark 7.

When he speaks of absolute moral standards as in Matthew 5 I do indeed have fundamental differences with him.

But anything under the true following of Christianity does not cause unjust suffering or tyranny.

But now we`re back to exactly who and/or what standard determines "true" Christianity.

 

[groovydancer88]

This thread is interesting to read for me because it kind of correlates with a conflict I recently had. (Thanks for asking, atofel!) I have a friend (who lives in TX) who I write to... he's pretty much the one responsible for my faith today. But that doesn't mean that I agree with a lot of what he says! For example, he urged me to 'share' Christianity with other people. I told him that I wasn't so sure that was such a great idea, as I didn't want any of this hostility that we're talking about for trying to force people into believing what I do. Also it just seemed that living a good life so as to be a good example of Christianity would be a more effective way of converting people than by just telling people to. But at the same time, I feel somewhat obligated to at least try... or at least I feel that I should feel that way. When I told him of this conflict, he said that he was glad that I was feeling conflicted, because it showed that the Holy Spirit was in me, condemning me for my wrong doing. I felt this was a somewhat less than satisfactory answer. What does everyone think?

 

[Master Vigil]

I definitely feel that is a less than satisfactory answer. I remember I was the grocery store once, and I was turning around the isle and bumped into this older guy. I sorta fell over and he bowed to me apologizing and then helped me up. I asked him why he bowed and he said it was respect. I then asked what religion he was, he said buddhist. And then he said, you have a good day. And he walked away. Thing point here is, he didn't try to convert me, but his actions made me want to know more. But if he would of told me, I'm buddhist, and I do this because of respect, and you should do it too because its what buddha wants. Here are some booklets, and that is the word of buddah and sit there and try to convert me. I would of hated the guy.

 

[Melody]

I definitely feel that is a less than satisfactory answer. I remember I was the grocery store once, and I was turning around the isle and bumped into this older guy. I sorta fell over and he bowed to me apologizing and then helped me up. I asked him why he bowed and he said it was respect. I then asked what religion he was, he said buddhist. And then he said, you have a good day. And he walked away. Thing point here is, he didn't try to convert me, but his actions made me want to know more. But if he would of told me, I'm buddhist, and I do this because of respect, and you should do it too because its what buddha wants. Here are some booklets, and that is the word of buddah and sit there and try to convert me. I would of hated the guy.

Yes! That was my point earlier. That you can spread the word through your actions....and then let God do the rest.

That actually was what initially drew me towards Christianity. I met this wonderful woman (who is a pastor now btw) who, by her behavior, made me want to know more about the faith that gave her such inner peace.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

I have no more animosity towards Christian based religions except to the extent that it's followers have negatively affected my current reality and has deluded, deceived and sold short people since it's inception. Those same people that profess to believe in "loving your neighbor" and "turning the other cheek" have done little to none of that from what I have seen throughout history because of the desire for political and social power. Adding to that, there are a lot of medical and scientific acheivements that probably could have been made that never happened because of the squashing of science in favor of those religions, knowledge appears to have been "evil"- or maybe it was just a real threat to their political and social power.

I find it arrogant of Christians that feel they must teach "Christs" message to everyone for "their own good" regardless if they were happy before hearing the message or not. From what I understand of Christianity, if you do not hear the word of "god" or "Christ" then you would go to their "heavan" anyway, but if you hear it and turn away from it then you are seperated from God or sent to hell etc. If you were a missionary that came upon a tribe in the middle of a jungle that have never heard of Christ but have a fully functioning and happy society with their own religions and beliefs (or lack of them) without his message. What is the judgement call when you know that if you teach them his message you will doom them to your "hell" or seperation from your "God" if they do not accept your beliefs "salvation" only a possibility only after sometimes completely destroying their own cultures centuries old beliefs, when if you didn't, they would go to your heavan anyway? Free will is a choice based on knowledge, not a cosmic ultimatum of following and worshipping a "god" or run the risk of eternal damnation, but that is the true face of the Christian "god". I find the image of the shepherd quite fitting for those systems, for it is the shepherd that eventually leads their lambs to slaughter.

As far as other religions, I have no more animosity towards them than they have towards my beliefs, but if they had the same power and influence in the society in which I live and the history that Christian based systems have/had, I would feel the same about them as well, "Christian love" seems to be nothing more than hate, My opinion anyway.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I have no more animosity towards Christian based religions except

Your "except" dwarfs all other aspects of your message. It appears to be mostly Christophobic.

I find it arrogant

Then truly you don't understand arrogance.

From what I understand of Christianity,

You might consider researching the owner's manual. Your misconceptions are not found in the Bible and we don't feel the need to live up to your expectations.

but if they had the same power and influence in the society

Then this is the real reason for your Christophobic comments?

 

[Scorn]

Do I see a pattern developing here NetDoc? I suggested I sense judgment when Christians say "I hope you find your way to Christ". And Dr. No says he gets arrogance from them. in both cases we apparently don't understand the meanings of the words.

Is there anything we non-believers actually understand about our personal feelings?

When I said I feel judgment, I mean I feel judgment.

I'm sure that when Dr. No feels arrogance, he means arrogance.

These definitions may not apply to you. I've seen no evidence to suggest they do. And perhaps you feel as though these are blanket statements and it is your job to defend Christianity, fair enough. But please allow us our senses and don't diminish our emotional responses.

Challenging our intellectual understanding of our own emotions just come off as veiled ad hominems.

Yes, perhaps your personal feelings are different on the subject. But you will never hear me suggesting that you don't understand your own motives.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Your "except" dwarfs all other aspects of your message. It appears to be mostly Christophobic.

Can you debate what I have said?