Hope for things which are not seen.

[Audie]

Entirely his (Revelation 12:12,9) but Not at entirely permanent according to Revelation 20.
Satan, as the god of this world of badness, (2 Corinthians 4:4) is temporary.
Sinner Satan will be destroyed by Jesus - Hebrews 2:14 B

Talk is cheap

 

[idea]

True, the disciple were learners, but that does Not mean they stopped learning, or stopped progressing.
Even that denial of Christ was Not permanent; it was temporary.
The disciples chosen to be apostles would reign with Jesus as kings and priests as per Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6.
Since they will be resurrected to Heaven and govern with Jesus there will be 'No leaning on arms of flesh' (physical).
Rather, as heavenly kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities towards people living on Earth.
As heavenly priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards people of Earth.
The humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11

So your chosen heaven is an eternal hierarchy, where some are always leaders, and others are always followers? I think it is noble to temporarily take care of others, but that the final goal is for everyone to be equal and self-reliant. Do you envision a final heaven in which everyone has attained the same level of glory and understanding? Or do you believe all the "care-takers" will not actually educate and bring others up to their same level (in which case, that is not really "taking care" of anyone, it is keeping them in their "lower" place".

Everyone can imagine heaven to be whatever they want - for many, their idea of ultimate happiness only exists while eternally pushing others down and themselves up.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Really. As for Satan and the20th century, who
could say it was not entirely his?

Not entirely. Though it did appear that way at times.

 

[idea]

Best case scenario? An ending. We simply cease to exist.

That goes against the laws of thermodynamics . Nothing just dissappears.

 

[YoursTrue]

Become one with the universe

yuk I want to think, play, be

For the atheists, to agnostics, spiritual or religious, of any faith - believing or not, what is true or not -

"Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good. That honor, courage and virtue mean everything ; that power and money … money and power mean nothing. That good always triumphs over evil. And I want you to remember this…. that love….true love never dies. Remember that boy … remember that. Doesn’t matter if it is true or not, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.”

No need to believe in everything. Everyone decides what is worth believing in.

What does everyone believe is worth believing in? To have hope in a better future is to first have vision, even if it is a hope without faith.

it took me time. I have no regrets about my awakening.

 

[Watchmen]

That goes against the laws of thermodynamics . Nothing just dissappears.

I think you know what I meant.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Talk is cheap

Talk is also price-less because Jesus taught to ' talk the talk ' for free - Matthew 10:8 B; Matthew 24:14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So your chosen heaven is an eternal hierarchy, where some are always leaders, and others are always followers? I think it is noble to temporarily take care of others, but that the final goal is for everyone to be equal and self-reliant. Do you envision a final heaven in which everyone has attained the same level of glory and understanding? Or do you believe all the "care-takers" will not actually educate and bring others up to their same level (in which case, that is not really "taking care" of anyone, it is keeping them in their "lower" place". Everyone can imagine heaven to be whatever they want - for many, their idea of ultimate happiness only exists while eternally pushing others down and themselves up.

No, no, no, Not eternal 'hierarchy' (as you say) but governing over Earth for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:26
Then, after the thousand years Jesus hands back God's kingdom to his God - 1 Corinthians 15:26
The two (2) heavenly jobs will No longer be needed or used - Revelation 5:9-10.

No pushing others down and themselves up but as being 'servants' as Jesus said at Matthew 23:11; Mark 10:43-44
All who inherit the Earth will be humble meek people, only people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 will be in Heaven and they are all considered as equals. - Galatians 3:28

Remember: angelic life was created first, then God expanded His Creation Business to include the physical realm.
Angels were never created to be people, and people were not created to be angels.
Those whom Jesus chose to govern with him will never be angels. - Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:4,6.
The humble meek who inherit the Earth will never be angels.

 

[idea]

No, no, no, Not eternal 'hierarchy' (as you say) but governing over Earth for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:26
Then, after the thousand years Jesus hands back God's kingdom to his God - 1 Corinthians 15:26
The two (2) heavenly jobs will No longer be needed or used - Revelation 5:9-10.

No pushing others down and themselves up but as being 'servants' as Jesus said at Matthew 23:11; Mark 10:43-44
All who inherit the Earth will be humble meek people, only people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 will be in Heaven and they are all considered as equals. - Galatians 3:28

Remember: angelic life was created first, then God expanded His Creation Business to include the physical realm.
Angels were never created to be people, and people were not created to be angels.
Those whom Jesus chose to govern with him will never be angels. - Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:4,6.
The humble meek who inherit the Earth will never be angels.

Do you believe 'God' is the only being who will ever be all-knowing, all-present, all-loving, all-powerful etc.

Or do you believe everyone - all spirits/people/sentient beings will be equal to God?

To me, it sounds like an unjust heirarchy unless you believe all - every single one - all sentient beings become equal to God, only equality in the eternal scheme.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Do you believe 'God' is the only being who will ever be all-knowing, all-present, all-loving, all-powerful etc.
Or do you believe everyone - all spirits/people/sentient beings will be equal to God?
To me, it sounds like an unjust heirarchy unless you believe all - every single one - all sentient beings become equal to God, only equality in the eternal scheme.

In the Bible (Revelation 4:11) I find God is singular as Creator.
Thus, God will always know more than His creation - Ecclesiastes 3:11; Isaiah 64:4
However, Jesus prayed we all be 'one' Not be one person but all be one in unity, purpose, goal etc. John 17:11, 21-23.
So, No creation will never be equal to the Creator.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still think he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12.
Jesus taught to only worship his God according to John 4:23-24

 

[URAVIP2ME]

................Jewish heaven....create a religion for Christians to follow, ...................

Since there was and is No 'Jewish heaven' (because No one was offered heaven before Jesus came - John 3:13) then the Jewish hope was like Adam's original hope or purpose to live forever on Earth.

The OT resurrections and all of Jesus' resurrections were about dead people returning back to live life on Earth.
Heaven is only offered to a few people like those of Daniel 7:18; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 2:10

 

[rational experiences]

When a human accepts their owned natural status you are just a human.

If you give up all.claims of I own.

When you own I am a human being human. Then you'll give up the human claim I will know everything.

Anything else is being its own body type or presence not human and you don't own it.

Ownership greed status self idolisation of a human said it's why humans became their own destroyer.

As a tree grew its fruit on its own body. It allowed you to pick the fruit eat the fruit and remain alive. Seems to be the human lesson who do you think you are actually!

Men said to overpower my family. To give me a lifestyle as a self idol I will claim I own all natural presence by group ordained controls. State...when it's presence natural was a human life support only.

The actual one hundred percent only correct human teaching.

Humans don't own it you use it. Pretty basic human ego advice.

Give and cause a fake status first then live and believe in the fake status.

 

[idea]

....
Heaven is only offered to a few people ....

Everyone has a right to chase after the ideas of heaven that seem best to them, but I have to let you know, this is one of the things really destroys Christianity for me - the idea that "only a few" make it to heaven. Personally, I do not find this inspiring, and would not want to be in a place where "only a few" were there.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Everyone has a right to chase after the ideas of heaven that seem best to them, but I have to let you know, this is one of the things really destroys Christianity for me - the idea that "only a few" make it to heaven. Personally, I do not find this inspiring, and would not want to be in a place where "only a few" were there.

Think about this: Adam and Eve were never angels, never in Heaven.
They were another form of creation. They were physical creation created to live forever on Earth.
Not a polluted war-filled sick-filled Earth but a healthy paradisical Earth forever and ever.
Thus, Earth would be a place where ALL human/physical life would live.
Jesus promised Earth for righteous people - Matthew 5:5; Matthew 25:37 from Psalms 37:9-11,29.
Jesus resurrected people back to live life on Earth.
Jesus was giving us a small-sample preview, a coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing on a GRAND GLOBAL scale in the future starting with Jesus' coming Glory Time - Matthew 25:31-33.
The majority of mankind will be here on Earth, so you would Not be where only a few are.
You would be in good company: Abel, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Job, King David, Daniel, etc. just to name a few.

 

[idea]

Think about this: Adam and Eve were never angels, never in Heaven.
They were another form of creation. They were physical creation created to live forever on Earth.
Not a polluted war-filled sick-filled Earth but a healthy paradisical Earth forever and ever.
Thus, Earth would be a place where ALL human/physical life would live.
Jesus promised Earth for righteous people - Matthew 5:5; Matthew 25:37 from Psalms 37:9-11,29.
Jesus resurrected people back to live life on Earth.
Jesus was giving us a small-sample preview, a coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing on a GRAND GLOBAL scale in the future starting with Jesus' coming Glory Time - Matthew 25:31-33.
The majority of mankind will be here on Earth, so you would Not be where only a few are.
You would be in good company: Abel, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Job, King David, Daniel, etc. just to name a few.

Do you consider yourself to be one who will live on earth? Or are you aiming for 144,000?

Do you consider the 144,000 to be in a more glorious state than the rest? If so, why only 144,000 - why not everyone?

Sorry - tell a pet how wonderful their life is, little puppy gets food, a warm bed, other puppies to play with - but that dog still wants to be a person with a seat at the table like everyone else.

Little flock, only a few, limited heaven - only happy in an eternal hierarchy with "have's" and "have not's", the powerful unwilling to educate and bring up others? Not such a good afterlife for anyone in my opinion.

Believe what you want, everyone does.

 

[idea]

Everyone = heaven to me.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Really. As for Satan and the 20th century, who
could say it was not entirely his?

I find Satan misleads the entire inhabited Earth - Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12; Ephesians 2:2; 1 John 5:19.
However, Satan being the 'god of this world' ( 2 Corinthians 4:4 ) comes to his final end.
Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B

 

[Audie]

Everyone = heaven to me.

I figure- ifn theres a heaven, its gotta have
a reception line. All of your honoured ancestors
to greet you.
" weary pilgtim, welcome home".
All that.

Back through the generations. Take you time!
Youve forever, after all.

Lets hope youve nothing to shame you,
that you are worthy of them all!

Their pain struggle sacrifice love and work,
all that it took to make your own life possible.

Back through the centuries, people so
different from you!
Bronze age, stone age, tens of thousands
of years ago, your ancestors still, waiting
to meet you.
Id hate to be one of the people who
spent their life denying those people
ever even existed.

 

[Balthazzar]

For what we cannot know - what comes after death, existence before birth, the origin and eternal destiny of all - what is the best-case scenerio? If you could define heaven, what would it be?

For me - no heirarchies, no one better than anyone else, no sexism, no racism, all equally educated, equal and all-knowing, everyone fully present with everyone else.

Somewhere I fit in as I am - with like-minded people who share similar values.

 

[PureX]

Keep in mind that hope happens right along with the understanding that what is hoped for may not manifest. Hope is not a blind pretense that what we are hoping for will certainly occur. So that if faith is based on hope, it is not based on blind pretense. Something many religious outlets deliberately fail to clarify.