Honor Killings

[beenie]

Here you see that the Quran allows for people to kill someone if they have killed or for speading mischief, this leaves it pretty open to kill and to try to justify it as mischief from the person who was killed. That is just plain evil, but is how they try to justify honour killings.

That's a stretch, but one that a sick mind could think up. Sad, isn't it?

I think people who commit honor killing should also be sentence to death. Fathers who killed their daughters or husbands killing their wives don't deserve life prison sentence.

Completely agree. They should be killed in the same way they killed the girl (plus a few added torture rituals).

When I was stationed as a younger soldier in the main border crossing with Gaza I used to do various things to pass the time. I also used to read a Palestinian daily newspaper, to my surprise it had a pretty liberal perspective, and while I was expecting to read about the woes of the occupation, what I got was an honest criticism of Palestinian society. one of the themes was exposing the honor killings phenomenon, which is apparently widespread in Palestinian society, I read about plenty of girls who are murdered by their familes after they have been raped, because they put the honor of the family to shame. in various cultures around the world, honor killings are high in numbers, for example in Pakistan. it is definitely a problem, a phenomenon I would say.

Punishing or killing a girl because she was raped is disgusting and has no place in Islam whatsoever.

Still, it was a Palestinian newspaper which criticised and exposed the phenomenon, which means that there are plenty of people in the society who wish to eradicate it.

This is encouraging, but unfortunately, those who believe in the practice probably aren't reading the newspaper. I hope those who oppose it have the larger and louder voice and can help eradicate honor killings completely.

At least there is some liberal drive to change this is Palestinian society. Its very hard to understand such thing which leads to "honor killing". If my daughter or sister (God forbid) was attacked sexually, id rather kill the man. As for who they date, as long as its not a creep or bad company, id be fine.

Exactly. Most Muslims think like this, just so you know. Unfortunately, we hear about the few who don't.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Exactly. Most Muslims think like this, just so you know. Unfortunately, we hear about the few who don't.

Well I didn't know because I have never been out of the States. But I have found a new respect and understanding of Muslims from being around a lot of muslims.

I even understand the whole head covering thing a bit better.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

You people actually think that honor killings is exclusive to Muslims and that Christians don't commit this crime?

And don't give me that "No True Scotsman" crap.

 

[JacobEzra.]

You people actually think that honor killings is exclusive to Muslims and that Christians don't commit this crime?

And don't give me that "No True Scotsman" crap.

I took you off the list, thinking you may have something worth while to say on the subject. I see not.

But um, where has it been spoken of as just a "muslim thing"? If anything, it seems most people will say its a mere cultural thing, rather then a religious thing.

 

[Caladan]

This is encouraging, but unfortunately, those who believe in the practice probably aren't reading the newspaper. I hope those who oppose it have the larger and louder voice and can help eradicate honor killings completely.

I agree. its a nasty phenomenon. and I think we've seen plenty of strong opinion from the Arab society itself spearheaded by Arab women during the Arab Spring about a better standing for women. I think that the next Arab governments are going to have to come to terms with this, as these women were a strong part of the current changes in the region. they don't deserve to be jeopardized, and they certainly deserve to express the full of their potential, and they know it.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I took you off the list, thinking you may have something worth while to say on the subject. I see not.

But um, where has it been spoken of as just a "muslim thing"? If anything, it seems most people will say its a mere cultural thing, rather then a religious thing.

Thread is young and the Islamicphobic member are probably still at church. And i very much suspect that this thread wasn't made with the best intentions at all.

 

[beenie]

I agree. its a nasty phenomenon. and I think we've seen plenty of strong opinion from the Arab society itself spearheaded by Arab women during the Arab Spring about a better standing for women. I think that the next Arab governments are going to have to come to terms with this, as these women were a strong part of the current changes in the region. they don't deserve to be jeopardized, and they certainly deserve to express the full of their potential, and they know it.

I am so proud of these women for standing up, speaking out (risking their lives in some cases) and being recognized as valid citizens worth of opinions. I hope they continue to grow and be heard even more.

 

[beerisit]

I am so proud of these women for standing up, speaking out (risking their lives in some cases) and being recognized as valid citizens worth of opinions. I hope they continue to grow and be heard even more.

Not just their lives, their dignity, freedom, their rights, everything. I think I was a tough cooky, those women make me look like a *****.

 

[839311]

I think I was a tough cooky, those women make me look like a *****.

lol...

 

[crocusj]

I agree. Why should society support the existence of a monster in prison? Those funds would be better spent on other projects.

Why? Because it is wrong to kill. That's why.

 

[crocusj]

I think people who commit honor killing should also be sentence to death. Fathers who killed their daughters or husbands killing their wives don't deserve life prison sentence.

So, you feel able to judge that your moral standpoint is such that you can kill but those whose moral standpoint is different from yours cannot - and yet more, if they deny your standpoint (carry out their own) you can specifically kill them for that. This is different from an honour killing how, exactly?

 

[839311]

Why? Because it is wrong to kill. That's why.

So we disagree. I don't think they deserve life in prison. If our resources were infinite, then maybe. Do you know how much it costs to keep someone in prison? Over $20,000 a year. If they commit murder at the age of thirty and end up living to a ripe old age of 85, they would have cost taxpayers around a million dollars. Instead, they should be killed, and that money should go to people who could really use it.

Thats not even mentioning the fact that a cold-blooded killer is more or less a monster, whose evil crime will haunt and twist him for the rest of his life. The quality of his life may be utterly miserable, or he may become increasingly evil over time as his crime weighs down on him. Such a creature should be put out of his misery.

 

[crocusj]

So we disagree. I don't think they deserve life in prison. If our resources were infinite, then maybe. Do you know how much it costs to keep someone in prison? Over $20,000 a year. If they commit murder at the age of thirty and end up living to a ripe old age of 85, they would have cost taxpayers around a million dollars. Instead, they should be killed, and that money should go to people who could really use it.

We do indeed disagree. Possibly for different reasons though, since your morality seems defined by cost and mine is not.

Thats not even mentioning the fact that a cold-blooded killer is more or less a monster, whose evil crime will haunt and twist him for the rest of his life. The quality of his life may be utterly miserable, or he may become increasingly evil over time as his crime weighs down on him. Such a creature should be put out of his misery

Well, if he is that cold blooded then I would suggest that your logic does not apply. It's ok to say that you want to kill him because he disgusts you but it is a bit of a stretch to suggest that it is for his own good or to compare him to a horse with a gimpy leg.

 

[Sunstone]

I think giving a government the right to kill its citizens is unwise.

 

[F0uad]

There is actually a religious scripture out there that allows and promotes honor-killings but i am pretty sure if i am going to mention the book i would be attacked on all fronts.

 

[crocusj]

There is actually a religious scripture out there that allows and promotes honor-killings but i am pretty sure if i am going to mention the book i would be attacked on all fronts.

We are here specifically to be attacked ( we kid on it's to learn but that's BS) so blaze away....

 

[839311]

since your morality seems defined by cost and mine is not.

My morality is defined by the virtues.

The fact that life isn't always as white and black as we'd like is a fact we all have to deal with, including you. But, I respect your opinion. I know your intentions are good.

Also, I think both our positions are respectable. Whether or not you personally agree, I really don't care.

It's ok to say that you want to kill him because he disgusts you

I disagree. Being disgusted by someone isn't a valid reason to want to kill them.

but it is a bit of a stretch to suggest that it is for his own good

Again, I disagree. People have to assess situations all the time, including this one. Maybe some people think this cold blooded murder would have a rosy life in prison. I disagree, but you seem to think so. Neither of us are murderers so we don't know what its really like, but we both have to use our intellects to try to figure it out.

or to compare him to a horse with a gimpy leg.

All things considered, I would say he is worse than the horse with a gimpy leg

 

[crocusj]

My morality is defined by the virtues.

The fact that life isn't always as white and black as we'd like is a fact we all have to deal with, including you. But, I respect your opinion. I know your intentions are good.

But it is black and white: kill or not. My intentions are neither good nor bad, they are what they are. I don't kill. And your contention was that economics were the deciding factor, virtue wise

I disagree. Being disgusted by someone isn't a valid reason to want to kill them.

Ok, but you can still find a valid reason to want to kill them nonetheless.

Again, I disagree. People have to assess situations all the time, including this one. Maybe some people think this cold blooded murder would have a rosy life in prison. I disagree, but you seem to think so. Neither of us are murderers so we don't know what its really like, but we both have to use our intellects to try to figure it out.

So if it is such a mercy, why provide it? You must agree that the motive of the mercy killing of a killer by those who already advocate killing the killer sounds a mite suspicious.

 

[F0uad]

We are here specifically to be attacked ( we kid on it's to learn but that's BS) so blaze away....

The bible:

Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, is she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire

So note, if the priests daughter commits a bad sexual act, she is to be burned because of her fathers reputation (therefore dis-honouring him) in fact its a order by the bible itself


Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his faither, or his mother, shall surely be put to death

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his faither or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or mother, his blood shall be upon him

So here the children are put to death for insulting there parents, this is a example of honour killings, the children are put to death for dis-honouring there parents and punished to death

There are many more of these kind of verses in the bible in there context but i won't make the list longer also i hope no-one gets offended by this

 

[gnostic]

So, you feel able to judge that your moral standpoint is such that you can kill but those whose moral standpoint is different from yours cannot - and yet more, if they deny your standpoint (carry out their own) you can specifically kill them for that. This is different from an honour killing how, exactly?

So you think it is okay, for a husband to kill his wife, or father killing his daughter, in misguided honor of family's reputation or that of religion's image?

If these sort of people (husbands, fathers, uncles, brothers, male cousins) think they are above the law. They think they can do anything to the women or daughters in their families.

As father or husband, they are supposed to love and protect the women or children in their lives. They should have to face the consequences of killing they supposed to love and protect. It is not about cultures, they are nothing more than patriarchal sociopaths. They can't be treated.

If that meant death sentence for these people in the court of law, then so be it. Alas, Australia have no death sentence.