1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Honor Killings. Why is Islam the main culprit?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Raymann, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    145
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    1 honor killing is reported every 4 weeks in the UK.
    The problem is that most honor killings are not reported so the number of killings is actually scarily higher.
    The reason for not reporting these killings is obvious, most of them are done by the family of the victim.
    In most cases, the whole community knows what has happened but they all keep silence because what has been done was done following an old Islamic tradition.
    The family couldn't take the shame brought upon them by their own daughter when she was seen kissing with an unapproved boyfriend.
    An emergency family meeting took place and her fate was decided right there. The penalty was death.
    Was that home made Islamic justice? Ancient tribal traditions? or other Islamic cultural reasons are to blame?



    I understand that honor killings are not part of the Islamic Scriptures but then how do we explain that most cases happen in Islamic countries or are done by Muslims even in western countries?
    A recent survey showed that 91 percent of honor killings worldwide are committed by Muslims, and 84 percent of honor killings in the United States were done by Muslims.
    So please don't even try to say that Islam has nothing to do with it.
    Islam has a lot to do with it but we don't know exactly how Islam is to blame in this kind of crime.
    Is it more shameful that your daughter doesn't dress appropriately than your decision to kill her?
    It doesn't make any sense to me but I'm a westerner and family traditions are not that important to us.
    I grew up a Catholic and later in my teens I turned into an agnostic. Nobody in my family or in my social circles seemed to care so much about it, life went on with no problems.
    That is not the case in Muslim families, an apostate has to face life-changing experiences once they make the decision to abandon Islam. In most cases, they have to run away and leave their families and friends for fear of retaliation.
    The misbehavior of a daughter or an apostate in the family can bring so much shame to a Muslim family in a way we westerners cannot comprehend.
    Why is this happening in 2019 just as it happened in the middle ages?
    Is it ignorance?
    Is it cultural?
    Is it Islam or Islamic culture?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    753
    Ratings:
    +53
    Religion:
    Presbyterian
    what is that video reply fooYang, that's total spam. Jesus said 'do not caste the stone' the Islam must have brought it back. And! The religious law is so important that they have to set up muslim law courts in the UK and Europe for them. who knows at that point, oh and of course you are fair prey to a mass mob of horny men with your hair undone. Oh! I couldn't help it this woman.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. FooYang

    FooYang Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2019
    Messages:
    330
    Ratings:
    +107
    Religion:
    Jainism
    Self-explanatory
     
  4. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,909
    Ratings:
    +258
    Religion:
    None
    Bear in mind - honor killings were common in Christian societies until a few centuries ago.
    Honor killings are still prevalent in primitive societies too.
    Part of the reason why WE stopped them was the rise of efficient law enforcement - you
    now have confidence that your law can handle your issue.

    But yes, there's the added element of ingrained violence in Muslim's beliefs. It goes back
    to the first Muslim Jew killer - Mohamed.
     
  5. FooYang

    FooYang Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2019
    Messages:
    330
    Ratings:
    +107
    Religion:
    Jainism
    1. Yes
    2. Depends
    3. Not naturally, but perhaps artificially because of #1. It's definitely against the core values of the religion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    1,908
    Ratings:
    +362
    Religion:
    christian
    Bicameral minds.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    54,767
    Ratings:
    +18,155
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    It may help to first consider why anyone anywhere has practiced them. It's not just Muslims. IMO, it is an extreme manifestation of group identity/collective thinking.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,372
    Ratings:
    +3,426
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    "But the truth of the matter is that honor killings are not caused or encouraged by Islam. Honor killing, despite the popular rhetoric around it, is not even a problem specific to Muslims. Its most concentrated and serious occurrences don’t involve Muslims at all. This ignorance about Islam’s teachings and the realities of violence against women has serious costs. First, blaming honor crimes on Islam antagonizes Muslims unnecessarily. It feeds the narrative, prevalent in many Muslim countries, that dismisses human rights as a proxy for Westernization and cultural imperialism. Second, sensationalism over Islam deflects from a reality that many men are loath to admit: that violence against women is a global problem with roots much deeper than the doctrines of one religion or the features of one culture. It needs to be addressed as such. Finally, obsessing over Islam’s alleged acceptance of honor crimes blinds Muslims and non-Muslims to the condemnation of these crimes in Muhammad ﷺ’s teachings and the Shariah."

    Source
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    35,859
    Ratings:
    +13,396
    Religion:
    Love
    I just read about an honor killing in India where caste was involved: 24-Yr-Old Killed Just Two Days After Marriage; Kerala Court Convicts 10 For "Honour Killing"

    And last year, there was an honor killing in India where a lower-caste Christian was murdered for the same reason So-called honor killing in Catholic family shocks Indian state
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    4,219
    Ratings:
    +2,037
    There is no support for "Honor Killing" in Islam. Sadly, this is a tribal custom that persists. It shames the faithful.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    145
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    We all know that Honor killings are not specific to Muslims but we also know that statistically 91% (worldwide) of these crimes are committed by Muslims so how can you say:
    "Its most concentrated and serious occurrences don’t involve Muslims at all."
    What are you talking about?
    Where exactly are the most concentrated and serious occurrences?
    Please explain.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    45,418
    Ratings:
    +14,077
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    The difference, if it even exists, is clearly negligible.

    As often pointed out by many Muslims, Islaam _is_ "a complete way of life".

    At some point we have to accept that Islaam's long and sorry association with so many excesses is no coincidence and is not really much of a deviation from the doctrine itself; the doctrine is indeed misguided and, above all, lacking in badly needed self-correction mechanisms, which it in fact goes out of the way to discourage if not forbid outright.

    Most ex-Muslims end up becoming atheists. Clandestine atheists at that. Despite a very explicit threat in the Qur'an, no less. That is not a coincidence either, and it is a clear indication of how misguided and how disfunctional Islaam is at its very core.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    4,219
    Ratings:
    +2,037
    I had 9 years living fully immersed in Islam. Before that I was Evangelical Christian for 33 years. I believe that Islam is just as messed up as Christianity, and Islamic cultures need to really educate themselves. If you wish to blame these things on Muslims, what would you do, wipe them all out? Not being argumentative at all. I know lots of Muslims that are very sweet people. Kill them too? I don't have a good answer.

    There is a Muslim Family that lives up near Leicester. They and all their family appear to be sweet and loving. They are on Youtube and she sells Hijabs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    4,219
    Ratings:
    +2,037
    This makes me sad.
     
  15. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,372
    Ratings:
    +3,426
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Notice the quotation marks, those aren't my words it's a source I was paraphrasing.

    "What are you talking about?
    Where exactly are the most concentrated and serious occurrences?"

    "Though it takes different shapes and appears with varied frequency from region to region, it afflicts all societies. Patriarchal societies (i.e., all societies to one degree or another) sometimes ‘justify’ some of this violence as the consequence of rage triggered in ‘crimes of passion.’ Other forms of violence against women, such as honor killings, can involve premeditation and even the coordination of several people, including women related to the victim. In those parts of the world plagued worst by violence against women, legal systems tend to offer official or unofficial leniency for the men who commit it.

    Honor crimes are only part of the larger phenomenon of femicide, or the murder of a woman for some reason associated with her gender. The women and girls who are the victims of such violence are attacked because they are perceived to have violated some profound expectation of how women are supposed to act in their society. In the Mediterranean region, especially the Middle East and North Africa, as well as South Asia, affronts are to the ‘honor’ of the woman or her family."

    From the aforementioned source.
     
  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,029
    Ratings:
    +1,269
    Religion:
    Baha'i inspired liberal
    I think it might be pre-Islamic culture. I feel that if Islamic culture was more open to dissent these issues would have been rooted out of Islamic countries along time ago, so I would speculate the reason for how slow progress has been in Islamic countries as being an inability to openly dissent against cultural norms in these countries.

    That’s my uneducated 2 cents worth.

    Can you please cite your survey that 91% of honour killings are conducted by Muslims?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    145
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Are you a Muslim now or were you a Muslim during those 9 years?
    Where you in an Islamic country?
    Were you living with a Muslim family?
    I'm just curious cause I've never been in any Muslim country.
    We need to blame the ones that are responsible.
    Wipe them all out didn't cross my mind, educate them would be a more civilized method.
    Of course, that would only be possible in western countries.
    Yes, I see. So nothing that you wrote is your actual words.
    You still should have been able to answer my question if you understood the article you quoted.
    I said that based on a recent survey 91% of honor killings are committed by Muslims.
    The article appears to deny it:
    "Its most concentrated and serious occurrences (honor killings cases) don’t involve Muslims at all."
    That contradicts all the facts based on actual studies so I asked:
    What places is the author of the article talking about?
    Can you answer that?
    The article also mentions: "Honor crimes are only part of the larger phenomenon of femicide"
    I'm not sure I agree with that. Honor killings is not limited to women, therefore, that statement is wrong since femicide refers to crimes exclusively committed against women.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    4,719
    Ratings:
    +2,571
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    100% of crimes are made by human beings, so why single out Muslims every time you make a OP? Why not look in to how ALL human beings can become better and do less crimes?
     
  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,029
    Ratings:
    +1,269
    Religion:
    Baha'i inspired liberal
    I repeat my question please link to the survey
     
  20. Raymann

    Raymann Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    145
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    You did notice that I was careful to point out that Muslims are not the only "humans" to commit this kind of crime, didn't you?
    The problem is that Muslims commit the overwhelming majority of the crimes so how can we possibly omit to mention that something is wrong in the Islamic community?
    I haven't seen the report myself but it has been mentioned in various articles among other places in "Wikipedia" if you care to look there. I believe the author might be Phyllis Chesler.
    As I pointed out the number of cases of this kind of crime is astonishingly higher than the cases actually reported.
     
Loading...