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Homosexuals in the Catholic Church

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
So much is said about what the Catholic Church doesn't do and does do with regard to gender and sexuality. There is still much discussion to be had.....but one thing is certain, homosexuals do exist within the walls of the Church that are loyal to the Church. That includes many priest and nuns as well. I know a close gay friend of mine (who is not Catholic) who finds Catholic homosexuals that are loyal to the Church's teachings as impostors and are only avoiding the inevitable reality.

Here are some of those Catholics who are gay, but simply love their Catholics faith more (agree or disagree, it's a great watch):


Blackstone Films | The Third Way
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
There are already homosexuals in the Catholic church, and I predict a more loving welcome of such persons into this Church in the near future even though I am not Catholic. It seems the current Pope may set the way. The Catholic church faced an onslaught of attacks by the religion-hating media about child molestation, yet the odds of your child being molested by a school administrator or teacher in the Los Angeles school system has been shown to be statistically much higher than from a LA priest. Unfortunately these same haters use the sexual orientation argument as well.

I think change is coming soon.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Paedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality. And it was also not what was plaguing the Catholic Church. Cases of Paedophilia were rather rare in the Catholic Church. Hebephilia and ephebophilia were more common, with ephebophilia being the biggest problem. However, to the untrained eye, ephebophilia is not much difference then homosexuality. After all, there might be little difference in appearance between a 19yr old and a 21 yr old.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I'm a culturally Catholic gay atheist. I get along better with the local Catholic community than the gay community. Catholic people tend to be easy going. Also the local pastor is excellent.

Gay people I don't get along with as well. I'm uninclined to support the culture of victimhood and get pretty judgemental about promiscuity and closets.

Gay people would probably be more welcome in most religious communities if they didn't feel such a need to justify so much icky behavior.

Tom
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
I'm a culturally Catholic gay atheist. I get along better with the local Catholic community than the gay community. Catholic people tend to be easy going. Also the local pastor is excellent.

Gay people I don't get along with as well. I'm uninclined to support the culture of victimhood and get pretty judgemental about promiscuity and closets.

Gay people would probably be more welcome in most religious communities if they didn't feel such a need to justify so much icky behavior.

Tom

That is a uniquely refreshing response. And not because it leans more toward what I agree with, but because it is not in vogue and contrarian. Well said.

Did you watch the video?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
That is a uniquely refreshing response. And not because it leans more toward what I agree with, but because it is not in vogue and contrarian. Well said.

Did you watch the video?

Thanks.
To me it's just common sense. Most people have their own lives and don't care all that much about who you sleep with. I also spent several hundred dollars a year for twelve years supporting the education of a little girl in Haiti through the church. Everyone knew that about me as well as my being married to a guy.

I didn't watch the vid. It's hard to download them on my phone and I only get a gig a month. Tell me about it.

Tom
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Namaste Q.

I think you are probably completely misunderstanding what I am saying.

I am not saying pedophila is related to homosexuality. Are you thinking I am saying that?

I am talking about my prediction that the Catholic church WILL come to terms with the fact that there are indeed homosexuals who are priests or nuns. And just as heterosexual priests (or nuns) are recommrnded to abstain from sex, those priests who eventually will be accepted who happen to be gay in orientation, they can and will be good abstaining priests or nuns as are hetero priests or nuns.

The change is, and will come..

I mentioned the attacks on the Catholic church in regards to the press coverage of child molestations, I was pointing out that this happens in all sectors, and example is the higher rate of such from public school admins and teachers. There are some Catholics who say homosexual priests following the order will molest little boys. Well, hetero priest might molest little girls. In fact a former supervisor of my company was a hetero priest who was not only molesting little girls but then later after being thrown out he even murdered some and is now in prison for capital one.

So the point being is, there are bad people everywhere, but a homosexual priest will not likely be anymore bad or good than a hetero priest. A good priest follows the vows no matter if hetero or homo.

That is what I am saying.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Then of course there's those non-straight non-cis people like me who have reconciled our faith with our sexual orientation and gender identity and reject the notion that expressing our love with another adult is "gravely disordered" and "sinful". If people want to be celibate, that's fine. But it makes no sense to me that God creates gay people and then expects them all to be celibate. Seems rather counterproductive and illogical.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Namaste Q.

I think you are probably completely misunderstanding what I am saying.

I am not saying pedophila is related to homosexuality. Are you thinking I am saying that?

I am talking about my prediction that the Catholic church WILL come to terms with the fact that there are indeed homosexuals who are priests or nuns. And just as heterosexual priests (or nuns) are recommrnded to abstain from sex, those priests who eventually will be accepted who happen to be gay in orientation, they can and will be good abstaining priests or nuns as are hetero priests or nuns.

The change is, and will come..

I mentioned the attacks on the Catholic church in regards to the press coverage of child molestations, I was pointing out that this happens in all sectors, and example is the higher rate of such from public school admins and teachers. There are some Catholics who say homosexual priests following the order will molest little boys. Well, hetero priest might molest little girls. In fact a former supervisor of my company was a hetero priest who was not only molesting little girls but then later after being thrown out he even murdered some and is now in prison for capital one.

So the point being is, there are bad people everywhere, but a homosexual priest will not likely be anymore bad or good than a hetero priest. A good priest follows the vows no matter if hetero or homo.

That is what I am saying.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. What I said wasn't directed at you. I was just clarifying and speaking out loud.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Then of course there's those non-straight non-cis people like me who have reconciled our faith with our sexual orientation and gender identity and reject the notion that expressing our love with another adult is "gravely disordered" and "sinful". If people want to be celibate, that's fine. But it makes no sense to me that God creates gay people and then expects them all to be celibate. Seems rather counterproductive and illogical.

This isn't unique to homosexuals. People are born with all sorts of different sexual inclinations that aren't healthy or inclinations to be violent through trauma early in their life. The usual response is that it's just not the same; and I'd agree none of them are exactly the same, but who says it's much easier? Whether you get it at birth or a little later, what difference does it make? These are valid questions IMO but it's hard to have this conversation without getting ripped on in this place because they can't get over any apparent comparisons being made.

We all have a cross to bear. Some heavier then others. A bit personal but I've been beaten, abused, exposed to the ugly side of the porno industry, come from a family of misfits, alcohol, drugs, and extreme violence........so do I have a choice? Are my urges to sin more or less? How could you ever quantify the pain of someone else?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
This isn't unique to homosexuals. People are born with all sorts of different sexual inclinations that aren't healthy or inclinations to be violent through trauma early in their life. The usual response is that it's just not the same; and I'd agree none of them are exactly the same, but who says it's much easier? Whether you get it at birth or a little later, what difference does it make? These are valid questions IMO but it's hard to have this conversation without getting ripped on in this place because they can't get over any apparent comparisons being made.

We all have a cross to bear. Some heavier then others. A bit personal but I've been beaten, abused, exposed to the ugly side of the porno industry, come from a family of misfits, alcohol, drugs, and extreme violence........so do I have a choice? Are my urges to sin more or less? How could you ever quantify the pain of someone else?

There's nothing unhealthy about homosexuality in of itself, same as heterosexuality. Homosexuality is not caused by trauma. Research rules that theory out. LGB people come all backgrounds. It's just a natural and normal variation. If it can't be proven to cause harm, then I really fail to see how it is a sin. Sin, as I understand it, is a damaging of the relationship between us, God and others. People being in committed, loving gay and lesbian relationships are not damaging anything. That's just how God made them.

LGB/T Christians who don't see a conflict between our faith and who we are are somewhat the black sheep of both groups. We're off in the middle, pleading with both sides to open their eyes.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
There's nothing unhealthy about homosexuality in of itself, same as heterosexuality. Homosexuality is not caused by trauma. Research rules that theory out. LGB people come all backgrounds. It's just a natural and normal variation. If it can't be proven to cause harm, then I really fail to see how it is a sin. Sin, as I understand it, is a damaging of the relationship between us, God and others. People being in committed, loving gay and lesbian relationships are not damaging anything. That's just how God made them.

LGB/T Christians who don't see a conflict between our faith and who we are are somewhat the black sheep of both groups. We're off in the middle, pleading with both sides to open their eyes.

You made stretches that I did not intend and either missed or chose not to address my main point. Your position is that if God gave it to you, well then it would be right down wrong not to use it or follow through with it.

Try for just a second to ponder a situation that one is strongly inclined (Kleptomania, etc.) to do something and that thing committed is wrong. Would you say that person had no choice? Or that he/she should be allowed to do it because God made them that way?

Now, if you want to hang on to the false premise that homosexuals are born that way (it matters little with regard to the Catholic position anyhow), that is fine, but people are born with other inclinations as well.
 

Thruve

Sheppard for the Die Hard
Paedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality. And it was also not what was plaguing the Catholic Church. Cases of Paedophilia were rather rare in the Catholic Church. Hebephilia and ephebophilia were more common, with ephebophilia being the biggest problem. However, to the untrained eye, ephebophilia is not much difference then homosexuality. After all, there might be little difference in appearance between a 19yr old and a 21 yr old.

I had just figured that it was the perfect way for gay men to hide themselves. No marriage, etc. Figure it was a blessing to them, that God had a way for them to hide.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
You made stretches that I did not intend and either missed or chose not to address my main point. Your position is that if God gave it to you, well then it would be right down wrong not to use it or follow through with it.

Try for just a second to ponder a situation that one is strongly inclined (Kleptomania, etc.) to do something and that thing committed is wrong. Would you say that person had no choice? Or that he/she should be allowed to do it because God made them that way?

Now, if you want to hang on to the false premise that homosexuals are born that way (it matters little with regard to the Catholic position anyhow), that is fine, but people are born with other inclinations as well.

Your entire argument is a false equivalence. All the things you're comparing homosexuality to are objectively harmful actions. Homosexuality can't be shown to be objectively harmful.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Then of course there's those non-straight non-cis people like me who have reconciled our faith with our sexual orientation and gender identity and reject the notion that expressing our love with another adult is "gravely disordered" and "sinful". If people want to be celibate, that's fine. But it makes no sense to me that God creates gay people and then expects them all to be celibate. Seems rather counterproductive and illogical.



Only to those in darkness--1 Cor 6:9-11---teaches---will Not enter Gods kingdom( be saved) and homosexuals is one of them. Its the practice of immoral sex that is condemned( not if one is gay)---they stop doing the sin--same with a man and woman out of marriage( fornication). The sin must be stopped---not do it ask forgivness,etc,etc,etc--this makes one a worker of iniquity) Matt 7:21-23.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Only to those in darkness--1 Cor 6:9-11---teaches---will Not enter Gods kingdom( be saved) and homosexuals is one of them. Its the practice of immoral sex that is condemned( not if one is gay)---they stop doing the sin--same with a man and woman out of marriage( fornication). The sin must be stopped---not do it ask forgivness,etc,etc,etc--this makes one a worker of iniquity) Matt 7:21-23.

Get out of our DIR.
 

NewGuyOnTheBlock

Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
When I watched the first 30 minutes of the film, I saw carefully selected gays in the interview process who were also victims of neglect or abuse and who had social issues in connecting with others. I then researched the production company of the film and noticed that those company is religiously based.

I also have reservations that those interviewed were who they presented themselves to be; the one female who made mention of leaving or returning to the "gay lifestyle" causes me to wonder this, as in this day and age, most gays find the term "lifestyle" inaccurate or downright offensive.

I think the film is propagating long debunked myths about homosexuality in a subtle but powerful method.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Your entire argument is a false equivalence. All the things you're comparing homosexuality to are objectively harmful actions. Homosexuality can't be shown to be objectively harmful.

You disagreeing with it, doesn't make it false. Nonetheless, since when do we measure our Catholic faith on only things that are objectively harmful? It's a part of it, yes........but you'd be going down a slippery slope once you simply accept things based on it being objectively harmful. Especially in light of the fact that "harm" is subject to being many people's opinions, interpretations, and assumptions. Perhaps you meant "subjectively harmful"? At any rate, I know what you mean and it matters little if I am able to show that the overwhelming opinion of the Church (in an unofficial capacity) is as noted in the video. I have no qualms with letting the convo end hear as I'd much rather leave in charity.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
When I watched the first 30 minutes of the film, I saw carefully selected gays in the interview process who were also victims of neglect or abuse and who had social issues in connecting with others. I then researched the production company of the film and noticed that those company is religiously based.

I also have reservations that those interviewed were who they presented themselves to be; the one female who made mention of leaving or returning to the "gay lifestyle" causes me to wonder this, as in this day and age, most gays find the term "lifestyle" inaccurate or downright offensive.

I think the film is propagating long debunked myths about homosexuality in a subtle but powerful method.

Or............maybe...........just maybe.........these are real people.

But given that you are inclined to think that religion flat out lies and can't possibly make a valid point; what possible dialogue can be made?

You can't help yourself, can you?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
You disagreeing with it, doesn't make it false. Nonetheless, since when do we measure our Catholic faith on only things that are objectively harmful? It's a part of it, yes........but you'd be going down a slippery slope once you simply accept things based on it being objectively harmful. Especially in light of the fact that "harm" is subject to being many people's opinions, interpretations, and assumptions. Perhaps you meant "subjectively harmful"? At any rate, I know what you mean and it matters little if I am able to show that the overwhelming opinion of the Church (in an unofficial capacity) is as noted in the video. I have no qualms with letting the convo end hear as I'd much rather leave in charity.

If you're not arguing against something on the grounds that it's harmful, then what grounds is there for it be declared wrong? Natural law theory? Well, that's badly flawed, as well.

But if you want to leave it there, okay. We know where the other stands.
 
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