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Homosexuality vs. The Bible

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Rex, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    There are indeed certain translations of the Bible that have been published knowingly and purposely inacurately to cover up the homosexual relations of Biblical heroes.

    Many Christians have claimed a different "Harmonization" than the literal reading of these passages in their correct form .

    However I think that the Christians who published these Bibles must have believed they were covering up the homosexual acts of these characters or there would be no reason to publish deceptive translations.

    Example...

    The Hebrew word for "Great" is Gadal, it means to magnify to become larger, to make bigger than it was.
    Many theologians believe this means David became erect in a sexual sense and if read literally thats how it sounds as well.

    However you`ll find many really twisted translations of this passage in many modern Bibles today in order tio hide this homosexual connection..

    Now you can argue that my interpretation of this passage is wrong and it does not have homosexual connotations but you cannot argue that the Christian organizations who published them did not agree with me.
    If they didn`t purposely twist the word of God to hide this homosexual relationship then why did they decieve?

    Read more at the link, some very interesing stuff about biblical homosexual relationships.
     
  2. roli

    roli Born Again,Spirit Filled

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    I know that about half of my homosexual friends have been driven away from the Christian church because of people telling them that they are in some way inferior on a base level. I know I said I would stay away from this topic........... I just want to point out one thing after reading this quote from FeathersInHair:

    Being a homosexual in no way makes a person inferior.

    Being a homosexual is NOT a sin.

    From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
    "They (homosexuals) must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter..."
    I just want people to understand that the statement, referred to above , "being a Homosexual is not a sin," are not God's words, on the contrary and unbiously speaking , according to the word of God, Homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God, unnatural (obviously), perverted, rebellious and lustful . The act itself is a sin to God just as lying ,stealing etc

    Jesus never spoke directly about a number of things, but the New Test. says that there would not be enough room in the world to contain all the books if written on everything Jesus did John 21:25
    Sin is breaking God's law Lev20:13, Gen Man should leave his parents and cleave to his wife
     
  3. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    God created homosexuals and God loves all his/her creations. Man is the only creature that calls things "abominations," including the supposed Snowman. It's time to sort out what belongs to God and what belongs to man.
     
  4. seraphimfire

    seraphimfire Member

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    To Maize;
    Touche' I have a really hard time explaining myself and the reference to violence was not "sexual" it was all inclusive violence like hatred and bodily harm in all ways! I have Dislexia and am ADHD so I'm trying to articulate as best I can! sorry if not clear. I read all the sites and what most scientists have observed as being homosexuality is really a bonding of same sex animals for some survival reason or even a learning experience for mating the opposite sex!
    The reason Sodom was destroyed was not for homosexuality as most theologans would have us believe but for the overall violence found in the cities! Sorry!
    Anyway, the key word is LOVE and understanding of all lifestyles! The ultimate Judge of us all is God! Not man or me! I do see the warning in the Bible against certain behavior and I think we must scrutinize it all more closely!
    Peace
     
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  5. seraphimfire

    seraphimfire Member

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    I really think that these scriptures are used to justify what ever anyone wants to do! We can translate the Bible to say anything to support our lifestyle weather we be Hetro,Bi,Homo, or whatever!
    What I want to know is, What is a Homosexual????? What is a Homosexual relationship according to You all and the religious establishment????
    Peace
     
  6. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Thats my point.
    The groups that used these translations used them to hide what they considered condoned homosexual acts in the Bible


    I rarely agree with the religious establishment but I think both our basic definitions of homosexuality are the same.

    Relating to people who are physically/intimately attracted to the same sex.
     
  7. seraphimfire

    seraphimfire Member

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    I think we as Americans define so many things our own way! In Europe and many other areas of the world, men and women hold hands of the same sex and are even seen kissing each other but this does not say they are Homosexual. Hugging and touching in the same sex is not Homosexuality! Single people are often labeled "Gay"
    wrongly, usless we use the term in it's original sense!(Happy, Joyful, Colorful etc)!
    Folks who live in the same house of the same sex are also labled wrongly often!
    I have read about African Men when on a hunt in the bush without women for a long time will engage in homosexual practices. What most of us are saying here is it is seen as a "sin" in the original Bible Laws and was punishable by death through stoneing!
    So were many other "sins" like adultry and such! I personally think that Homosexual activity is the direct encounter of sexual organs by same sex couples and the coupleing thereof! As to what I think should be done about it? If a nation or a person does not recognize the Laws of Jehova/Jesus/Yeshua they do not know they "sin"!
    In the Fellowship of the LORD though I think it is way wrong and the offenders should be cast out of fellowship but not forever as Paul directed the churches to forgive anyone who turns from their "sin"!

    Peace
     
  8. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    sin is such a misused word. its used by people to see what they think is immoral, and label it sin. and sin is often a religious word, used by religious leaders (in place of God) to condone immoral acts. but what if these arent sins at all? we are definitly misusing it in this case. we are believing in some person with no validity whatsoever (whose name that we do NOT know) who wrote leviticus and condoned prostitution of same sex, in which it became mistranslated into abominating all forms of homosexuality, including monogamous.

    my point? God could have very well intend something to happen like this. discrimination shows how ignorant we are (if we chose to realize it) and how dumb our society is when it gets to fear.
     
  9. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Ours is a secular nation and not everyone is of the same religion.
     
  10. seraphimfire

    seraphimfire Member

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    I know I'm talking to people of other religions and mind sets! What I meant was that to one person homosexuality is a SIN=a falling short of the Ideal who is Jesus/Yeshua the Christ, Messiah, first born Son Of God and to another person who does not KNOW this living God it is not a SIN but a natural way of life to mankind! In other words you have the right to do what ever is right in your own eyes and It's a free country (at least for now) and I for one hope it stays that way Amen??! So why debate something that is not really of your religions when you must have at least the same
    understanding and realtionship with the same GOD???
    Peace
     
  11. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Primarily because not every Christian seems to have the inclusiness that you have show in your post. Some would fashion the nation with tenets of religious faith. Some make a religious issue a secular one.

    My thought is that if most social issues were discussed from a secular standpoint and motive, the discussion would be short-lived and rights would prevail.

    -pah-
     
  12. Michelle

    Michelle We are all related

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    Well said civilcynic as the Bible can be made to say whatever you want. How else can you explain the thousands of Christian Churches, none of which believe exactly the same but all claim they are based on the Bible.

    Homosexuality is not a choice that people make. There is plenty of scientific facts that support this. The work of men like Dr. Simon LeVay, Henry Benjamin, Carl W. Bushong, blah, blah, blah.
    http://www.ren.org/bushong.html

    There are some conservative christian clinics that offer to cure a homosexual and offer as evidence people like John Doe. He was a homo and we told him he was going to hell and after many sessions of theraphy we were able to cure him. He is now married to jane Doe and is livng a good chirstian life. But what does that really prove? I think it proves that John Doe is bi-sexual. It is presumptuous to claim that John Doe is not cheating on Jane Doe with so many good conservative christians making the news with their use of prostitutes and or boys in the church.

    The Sodom story is real interesting if you look between the lines. Conservative Christians like to point to the story and claim that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of sexual attitudes. But lets take a closer look at the story.

    Sodom comes form the Hebrew word s'dom which means burnt and Gomorrah comes from the Hebrew word amorah which means a ruined heap. The name of the so called Cities is not even documented in the bible.

    Gen 19 8
    Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes." .
    Gen 19 14
    And Lot went out, and spake unto his son in laws, which married his daughters,and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

    This shows that Lot's daughters were not virgins and he was just lieing to make them sexually attractive. The whole man thing you know.

    Gen 19:24,25,26
    Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the in habitants of the city, and that which grew upon the grown. But his wife looked back from behind him and became a pillar of salt .Now lets fast forward to verse 31


    And the firstborn said unto the younger, our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come unto us after the manner of all the earths... umm...I didn't realize that every man on earth lived in two cities that had no names until after God destroyed them. The story goes on and lot had sex with his daugters and claimed it was his daughers fault since they got him drunk and took advantage of him. If this story is true then what happened to his daughters hubbys mentioned in verse 14? OK, and if they were destroyed by God because they looked back like his wife did, why didn't he mention it in verse 26? Ok if you buy into that Lot and his daughters were the only survivors of this story then Lot is the only witness. There are no verses giving the story from HIS daughter's perspective. So basically, you are asking me to believe that God destroyed two cities that are unnamed because of the evil men that lived there. Lot was saved though because he was so righteous, despite the fact he is an admitted liar, offered his daughters to a mob to be raped, and then fathered his daughters babies. He then told others his version of the story and had it recorded in the bible for me to read and see how righteous he was. He was the only witness as there are no other verses showing the story from his daughters persepctive. I feel certain that if his daughters wrote something it would read more like this.. "My Father is a pervert and a liar that thinks women should obey men. Give me a break...Lot was a righteous only in his mind."
     
  13. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Michelle,

    The problem with your Gen. 19:14 quote is that the KJV is a very poor translation. The boys were called "husbands", because they were going to be married to the daughters. This is very clear from the Hebrew text. They should still be virgins.

    There are several other instances of poor translation in that chapter, in many Bibles in different languages.

    For example, most languages say that the men of Sodom surrounded the house. Wrong; it was the people of Sodom, young and old (the age span repeated in v. 11, so that there would be no misunderstanding) so women were not excluded. Not very likely that any kind of intercourse was expected.

    Another one (not KJV, writing "know", but several "modern" translations, which have "sleep with" etc.): The city had recently been at war, so it is not surprising that the inhabitants would want to know (in the literal sense) what kind of foreigners the foreigner Lot had allowed to enter the city. Were they spies? Terrorists?

    Finally, there is no mentioning anywhere in the Bible that homosexual activities were or had been carried out in Sodom. The closest you get is in Jude v. 7, "fornication, and going after strange flesh" (KJV). So, several thousand of years after the supposed happenings, the best things Jude can come up with are that there were instances of adultery and, perhaps, that they committed the abomination of eating crayfish. The OT is even more vague, homing in on general cruelty, injustice and the like.

    As a closing detail, I am suspicious of the etymologies you give for the names of the cities. I find no words in the Bible matching those spellings and meanings. Gomorrah "`amorah" has too many consonants to look like a native Hebrew word (it begins with a throaty sound "`", not pronounced in modern Hebrew), so it is possibly very old and from another language. I find no other Bible words of the root SDM, so that's why I have doubts on Sodom.
     
  14. Michelle

    Michelle We are all related

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