Homosexuality and the Church

[Jerrell]

Let's hear what Jesus says about this type of attitude: Matthew 23; 13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[c]
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel

Are u trying to call me a Pharisee, this was a Jewish Sect who controlled the temple. DId you know that homosexuality is not just wrong according to the law. BUt it is wrong According To Paul in ROmans Chapter 1. Read this, A homosexual cannot be christian if God has GIVEN HIM UP, over to defile himself with mankind, strage(which means diffrent) Flesh.

We are still to obey the Law, we serve the same GOd that didn't like homosexulaity in the OT. He is the same today and forever more. And he feels the same way about sin. If you are going to be Christian my advice is this. Give up your sin, dont live a life of one who is seperated from GOd, do you not know that men who take on feminine roles shall not make it into heaven?

 

[jeffrey]

Are u trying to call me a Pharisee, this was a Jewish Sect who controlled the temple. DId you know that homosexuality is not just wrong according to the law. BUt it is wrong According To Paul in ROmans Chapter 1. Read this, A homosexual cannot be christian if God has GIVEN HIM UP, over to defile himself with mankind, strage(which means diffrent) Flesh.

We are still to obey the Law, we serve the same GOd that didn't like homosexulaity in the OT. He is the same today and forever more. And he feels the same way about sin. If you are going to be Christian my advice is this. Give up your sin, dont live a life of one who is seperated from GOd, do you not know that men who take on feminine roles shall not make it into heaven?

The law was written by man NOT by God. But seeing you wish to folow all the law, do you still offer up burnt offerings? And do you believe in the teachings of Christ?

 

[jeffrey]

This chapter describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into Lot’s house. The angels were sent to warn Lot that God was displeased with wickedness of the city’s residents and had decided to destroy the city. The men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send the strangers to the mob so that they might "know" the angels.
The Hebrew verb which is commonly translated as "know" is yada. Its meaning is ambiguous. It appears 943 times elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). In only about a dozen of these cases does it refers to sexual activity - all heterosexual. It is not clear whether the mob wanted to rape the angels or to meet with them, and perhaps attack them physically. Perhaps they were concerned that the strangers were spies who were sent to the city to determine its defensive fortifications. From the context, it is obvious that their mood was not friendly.

Sensing evil intent by his fellow citizens of Sodom, Lot refused. As an alternative, he offered his two virgin daughters to be heterosexually raped if that would appease the mob. The offer was declined. Later, the angels urged Lot and his family to flee and to not look back. Unfortunately, Lot’s wife seems to have had an inquisitive mind. She looked the wrong way, so God killed her for her curiosity.

God was apparently not critical of Lot for offering his two daughters to be raped. However, God was angry at the other inhabitants of the town. He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur). He presumably killed all of the men in the mob, their wives and other Sodom adults, as well as innocent children, infants, newborns, etc. It is unclear from these few verses in Genesis whether God demolished the city because the citizens habitually:

were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
wanted to rape visitors
engaged in homosexual acts
wanted to engage in bestiality (the mob may have wanted to rape the angels; angels are not human beings; they are considered to be a different species)
One has to look elsewhere in the Bible for references to Sodom in order to determine which of the four interpretations is correct.

The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation: that the crime of Sodom was homosexual activity. In fact, the English word sodomy which means homosexual or heterosexual anal intercourse was derived from the name of the city. But the first explanation appears to be the valid one. Consider:

Many Jewish stories mentioning Sodom are cited in the Ethics of the Fathers and the Talmud. The phrase "middat Sdom" was used. It may be translated as "the way the people of Sodom thought". It meant a lack of charity and hospitality towards others; ignoring the needs of the poor, etc. In the Middle East, a person’s survival could depend upon the charity of strangers. To help strangers was a solemn religious duty, as mentioned in Leviticus 19:33-34 and Matthew 25:35, 38 and 43.
Isaiah 1; The entire first chapter is an utter condemnation of Judah. They are repeatedly compared with Sodom and Gomorra in their evildoing and depravity. Throughout the chapter, the Prophet lists many sins of the people: rebelling against God, lacking in knowledge, deserting the Lord, idolatry, engaging in meaningless religious ritual, being unjust and oppressive to others, being insensitive to the needs of widows and orphans, committing murder, accepting bribes, etc. Homosexuality and other sexual activities were not mentioned at all.

Full article here

 

[standing_alone]

:clap Ooooh, great post, Jeff! More frubals when I can give them to you again!

 

[Mister_T]

Are u trying to call me a Pharisee,

I let the passages speak for themselves.

this was a Jewish Sect who controlled the temple

I know. That wasn't the point. Jesus wasn't condemning them for who they were; He was condemning them for what they did.

DId you know that homosexuality is not just wrong according to the law. BUt it is wrong According To Paul in ROmans Chapter 1

1) As a matter of fact I did know. 2)I'm not worshipping Paul. Any message that Jesus(son of God) gives, overides any message that Paul (a former Pharisee) gives, if there is a conflict in messages. Sin or no sin, Jesus clearly condemns the type of behavior displayed by anti-gay Christians. But it would appear that a lot of churches favor Paul's message over Jesus'. Maybe they should be hanging pictures of Paul in their church.

Read this, A homosexual cannot be christian if God has GIVEN HIM UP, over to defile himself with mankind, strage(which means diffrent) Flesh.

Read this: There are Christians who have tried not to be gay and have prayed ferventley about it for years. And the still wound up with the same results....being attracted to the same sex. Yet you seem to keep ignoring that. You stated earlier in the thread that gay christians should "give up" their sin. Are you saying that if they really try and they can't that God has condemned them?

If you are going to be Christian my advice is this. Give up your sin, dont live a life of one who is seperated from GOd, do you not know that men who take on feminine roles shall not make it into heaven?

You think I'm gay? Far from it. I'm a 100% heterosexual male.
If you're going to be a Christian my advice is this: Stop your sin of judging others.
Mattew 7: 1-5 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother 'Let me take the speck out of your eye' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? you hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers"

How often do you see Jesus bossing his followers
around?

He didn't do that. Instead, he took off their shoes and washed
their dirty feet to show them how they should serve each other

We are still to obey the Law

Then obey the law that Jesus clearly gave in Matthew 7:1-5 and don't judge.

 

[jeffrey]

I let the passages speak for themselves.

I know. That wasn't the point. Jesus wasn't condemning them for who they were; He was condemning them for what they did.

1) As a matter of fact I did know. 2)I'm not worshipping Paul. Any message that Jesus(son of God) gives, overides any message that Paul (a former Pharisee) gives, if there is a conflict in messages. Sin or no sin, Jesus clearly condemns the type of behavior displayed by anti-gay Christians. But it would appear that a lot of churches favor Paul's message over Jesus'. Maybe they should be hanging pictures of Paul in their church.

Read this: There are Christians who have tried not to be gay and have prayed ferventley about it for years. And the still wound up with the same results....being attracted to the same sex. Yet you seem to keep ignoring that. You stated earlier in the thread that gay christians should "give up" their sin. Are you saying that if they really try and they can't that God has condemned them?

You think I'm gay? Far from it. I'm a 100% heterosexual male.
If you're going to be a Christian my advice is this: Stop your sin of judging others.
Mattew 7: 1-5 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother 'Let me take the speck out of your eye' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? you hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers"

How often do you see Jesus bossing his followers
around?

He didn't do that. Instead, he took off their shoes and washed
their dirty feet to show them how they should serve each other
Then obey the law that Jesus clearly gave in Matthew 7:1-5 and don't judge.

Well stated! :clap

 

[BUDDY]

This chapter describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into Lot’s house. The angels were sent to warn Lot that God was displeased with wickedness of the city’s residents and had decided to destroy the city. The men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send the strangers to the mob so that they might "know" the angels.

So they just wanted to get together, play some cards and talk for a while, huh? Common sense and a look at the sory in context, tells us exactly what the situation was, and that they wanted to have sexual relations with them. Why would Lot offer them his daughters instead?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Because he was perfect. Did he not say to the people that were condemning a woman that committed adultery who is without sin to cast the 1st stone? or do you not follow the teachings of christ?

No one who is against homosexuality is casting stones at them or trying to kill them. I certainly am not. I do, however, recognize that homosexuality is a serious sin that mortally threatens those who practice it. Do you not follow the teachings of Christ, who said to make righteous judgements? We are not to judge wrongly or unrighteously, but when the Bible plainly tells us something is wrong, it is clearly reasonable for us to believe, in agreement with the Bible (and by extension, God), that such a thing is wrong.

FerventGodSeeker
​

 

[pdoel]

No one who is against homosexuality is casting stones at them or trying to kill them. I certainly am not. I do, however, recognize that homosexuality is a serious sin that mortally threatens those who practice it. Do you not follow the teachings of Christ, who said to make righteous judgements? We are not to judge wrongly or unrighteously, but when the Bible plainly tells us something is wrong, it is clearly reasonable for us to believe, in agreement with the Bible (and by extension, God), that such a thing is wrong.

The Bible also clearly states that pre-marital sex is a sin. Divorce is a sin. Eating shellfish is an abomination. Not marrying your brother's wife in the event of your brother's death, is a sin. A woman speaking in a Church, is a sin. The list is endless.

I guarantee, you have broken hundreds of the sins that are clearly described in the Bible. So what makes you think your sins are any better than those of the homosexual?

Once again, the Bible also CLEARLY states:

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that who shallever believith in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Personally, I feel that is the most important Bible verse to the Christian faith. It's really what defines us as Christians. But it amazes me, how many Christians seem to forget what exactly it is, that makes us Christian, and the importance of Christ's time here on Earth.

 

[Jerrell]

DId you not Know God wrote the ten commandments which is the basis for the law, or did you ignore that? And no i dont offer burnt offering becuase Jesus is my Eternal Sacrafice, Forever.

Jeuss did not favor gays either, do you think he loves sin? Jesus accepted the law of Moses, and in this law homosexuality is condmened. Do you think Jeuss ignored it? Now will you reject everyone that is not Jeuss cause you dont want to accept the knowleedge of one who was smarter than you? Paul knew the Old Testament. Paul was the Apostle unto the Gentiles, He did more than all the others and yet...Will u deny what he wrote?

If you like homosexuals in his Kingdom what excuse does a gay "christian" have? Was Jeus gay?

It seems today when someone doesn't agree with what Paul, or John or Peter wrote they'll ignore those parts of the BIble and make up some excuse. The BIble is Holy Scripture, and ignorace kills. I grow tired of homosexuals trying to "blott" out verses that condmen homosexuality, so that they can remain in thier sins.

There is no such thing as "can't" change. Have you ever heard the story of a Practiing homosexual who was VERY deep into the practice...he was claled to God. He gave up homosexulity and came to GOd. He is now a Preacher.

If you ask God for anything he will give it to you.
Mt 7:7 - Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Mt 21:22 - And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.-All things, not just some things, all things-

Mt 18:19 - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven
_If you can't do it by yourself get someone to pray with you_

Maybe God is not hearing you, there ARE MANY reasons God will not hear a prayer.

You are to rule over your flesh not the flesh over you.
Ro 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Ro 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Homosexuality is of the Flesh, if u can't "change" then you are letting your flesh rule you.

Ro 8:13 - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live

P.S.- Dont try to make imply that the law means nothing, you are only trying to Make excuses for sin...and they wont work

**IMPORANT**I am not judging, I am stating that Homosexuality is sin, and The Two cannot go together inside Christianity no matter what excuses you come up with. Did you notice that more than half of the verese i used are not from the law but from the NT? Homosexuality is not just condemned by the Law, but by The Apostles who followed Jesus.


Now here are the Verses that can Clearly Cover Judgement.
Joh 5:30 - I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me

Joh 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I do not judge according to appearance but to the readiness of the Spirit, homosexuality is flesh and is in the way of the SPirit. I dont want you to go to hell, that is why i speak this, If u wish I shall pray with u that you can overcome. I really dont want a Fellow Christian solider to be a slave to the flesh, from which Christ came to release us from.

 

[Jerrell]

We are not to judge,. But also we are not to sit silent and say nothing abour sin, we are to try and help our fellow human beings….not act as though their sin is okay. Preach the Word of Jesus and His Word is to Give up sin.

Joh 8:34 - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

John 16:7-8 "7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: "

The Holy Spirit will reproove sin. Now if you are "saved' And you are comfortable in your sin, something is wrong....Now I say this not only about homosexuality but about all sin, we should not be okay with where we fall short...We are to strive, that is our goal, and one day we shall reach.

 

[pdoel]

Jerrel,

Here's something else I believe to be a sin. I believe it is blasphemous to compare oneself to the Lord. I find it very blashphemous to chose an avatar of Christ Jesus, as something to represent yourself.

I find that rather blasphemous and sinful.

I do believe, however, that you can still be redeemed and be in God's good grace. Just like the homosexual.

We all Sin.

 

[jeffrey]

So they just wanted to get together, play some cards and talk for a while, huh? Common sense and a look at the sory in context, tells us exactly what the situation was, and that they wanted to have sexual relations with them. Why would Lot offer them his daughters instead?

I take it you did not read the article. It's obvious sex was not the ussue. :rolleyes"

 

[Jerrell]

Jerrel,

Here's something else I believe to be a sin. I believe it is blasphemous to compare oneself to the Lord. I find it very blashphemous to chose an avatar of Christ Jesus, as something to represent yourself.

I find that rather blasphemous and sinful.

I do believe, however, that you can still be redeemed and be in God's good grace. Just like the homosexual.

We all Sin.

Ro 6:4 - "We are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Now Blasphemous means this:

1. speaking evil, slanderous, reproachful, railing, abusive

In what way have i slandered Jesus? Or are you just offended and want to turn it around?

2) That is not a picture of Jesus, NO one knows what he looks like. It is just an avatar and nothing eles.

3) We are told to be like Jesus, that is What Christian Means, Christ Like, To be Like Christ. You should compare yourself to Jesus that Shows Progress in your Life. it shows how well you have gained power over your Flesh.

 

[Jerrell]

I am already saved. I cannot be Re-saved. I am in God's Grace that is how i overcame my sin. By his grace. Now i would rather that you overcome your sin, cause in the Name of Jesus you can do all things.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Are you able to do all things through the goddess?

 

[jeffrey]

Scripture? Lets talk about it. Have you ever had sex with your wife while she is menstrating? Or wear clothes made with more then I type of fiber? These are abominations also.
Also, several Levitical "abominations" are accepted by Christians today, including having sex with a spouse who is menstruating, wearing cloth made from more than one fiber and ordaining men with physical handicaps to the priesthood.
Full story here, from the Daily Utah Chronicle.

 

[jeffrey]

Ro 6:4 - "We are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Now Blasphemous means this:

1. speaking evil, slanderous, reproachful, railing, abusive

In what way have i slandered Jesus? Or are you just offended and want to turn it around?

2) That is not a picture of Jesus, NO one knows what he looks like. It is just an avatar and nothing eles.

3) We are told to be like Jesus, that is What Christian Means, Christ Like, To be Like Christ. You should compare yourself to Jesus that Shows Progress in your Life. it shows how well you have gained power over your Flesh.

Lets talk about that Show me one passage where Christ condemned homosexuality. But what did Christ say about marriage?
Jesus said, "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery" (Matt. 19:9)
So, there preachers blast gays, which Christ NEVER addressed, and from that same alter remarry couples for any reason. Divorce for any reason. This wreaks of hypocrisy.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

I guarantee, you have broken hundreds of the sins that are clearly described in the Bible. So what makes you think your sins are any better than those of the homosexual?

First of all, I never claimed to be sinless, just to be clear. One huge reason I am a Christian is because I realize that I am sinful and in need of a Savior to purify me.
However, there are obvious degrees of sin. Stealing a candy bar is not the same as slitting someone's throat. In Catholicism, the distinction between degress of sin is made by identifying a given sin in one of two categories:venial or mortal. Venial sins are what one might call "minor" sins, while mortal sins are what one might call "major" sins. Catholics refer to such sins as "mortal" because the Bible says they "lead to death": "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." 1 John 5:16
Those who commit mortal sins completely sever the mercy and grace of God from their immediate lives due to the gravity of their sins. Those who commit venial sins wound this relationship, but do not totally sever it. Scripture says that those who die in mortal sin without reconciling themselves to God will not inherit the Kingdom of God, i.e., they will not be saved. Several lists of mortal sins are found in Scripture, including the one that has been discussed extensively on this thread, in 1 Cor. 6. Homosexuals are placed in the same list with idolaters, adulterers, and drunkards, all obviously grave offenses. I can safely say at this time that I am neither a homosexual, an adulteres, an idolater, or a drunkard. I am not in mortal sin. Thus, while this does not make me perfect, nor should Christians outside of mortal sin be holier-than-thou in speaking with or about homosexuals, it does mean that the sins that I commit on a daily basis are not equivalent in their seriousness to a homosexual lifestyle, and thus, as a Christian under God's grace, I am to make righteous judgement and not condone such a lifestyle.

FerventGodSeeker

 

[jeffrey]

First of all, I never claimed to be sinless, just to be clear. One huge reason I am a Christian is because I realize that I am sinful and in need of a Savior to purify me.
However, there are obvious degrees of sin. Stealing a candy bar is not the same as slitting someone's throat. In Catholicism, the distinction between degress of sin is made by identifying a given sin in one of two categories:venial or mortal. Venial sins are what one might call "minor" sins, while mortal sins are what one might call "major" sins. Catholics refer to such sins as "mortal" because the Bible says they "lead to death": "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." 1 John 5:16
Those who commit mortal sins completely sever the mercy and grace of God from their immediate lives due to the gravity of their sins. Those who commit venial sins wound this relationship, but do not totally sever it. Scripture says that those who die in mortal sin without reconciling themselves to God will not inherit the Kingdom of God, i.e., they will not be saved. Several lists of mortal sins are found in Scripture, including the one that has been discussed extensively on this thread, in 1 Cor. 6. Homosexuals are placed in the same list with idolaters, adulterers, and drunkards, all obviously grave offenses. I can safely say at this time that I am neither a homosexual, an adulteres, an idolater, or a drunkard. I am not in mortal sin. Thus, while this does not make me perfect, nor should Christians outside of mortal sin be holier-than-thou in speaking with or about homosexuals, it does mean that the sins that I commit on a daily basis are not equivalent in their seriousness to a homosexual lifestyle, and thus, as a Christian under God's grace, I am to make righteous judgement and not condone such a lifestyle.

FerventGodSeeker

By useing your own reasoning, then wearing clothing made from more then 1 type of fiber is on a par with homosexuality. Check the tag on your shirt. Me thinks it's a good bet you be sinning.