Homosexuality and the Bible...

[desi]

This is something I don't understand... Practicing homosexuals claim to be Christians while both the New and Old Testament of the Bible condemn the homosexual act. What do you all make of this?

 

[painted wolf]

yeah, and practicing Christians persicute others while claming to follow Jesus' example.
Jesus condemed such actions in the Bible yet people still do it.
what do you make of that?

anyway, this issue has been covered many times on the fourms.
check out: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5871&highlight=homosexuality
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3561&highlight=homosexuality
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3045&highlight=homosexuality
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3094&highlight=homosexuality
just to name a few.

wa:do

 

[Lightkeeper]

This is something I don't understand... Practicing homosexuals claim to be Christians while both the New and Old Testament of the Bible condemn the homosexual act. What do you all make of this?

Yes, the practicing homosexuals read the Bible and found out God loves everyone according to Jesus.

 

[Valjean]

The Old Testament condemns just bout everything and prescribes all kinds of elaborate sacrifices and draconian penalties for all kinds of bizarre infractions. No Christian pays the least attention to them except as they conform to his/her conception of morality. People will point to the prohibition of homosexuality but ignore the prohibition on touching the skin of a pig just before it. The Old testament seems to have been written as a guide for tribal desert nomads.

The Old and New testaments in the Christian Bible are entirely different books. Why two such contradictory outlooks on life are combined into a single work would be an interesting historical discussion.

(Why this thread suddenly switched to Bold text with no intervention by the author is also an interesting question.....)

 

[Feathers in Hair]

This is something I don't understand... Practicing homosexuals claim to be Christians while both the New and Old Testament of the Bible condemn the homosexual act. What do you all make of this?

As Lightkeeper said, they had the audacity to actually read the Bible. The Bible also suggests that only he who is without sin cast the first stone. Since the same Bible proposes that everyone is a equally a sinner, and has fallen short of the glory of God, well... looks like those wanting to cast some stones are either gonna have to take a good look at themselves or come up with some sort of boomerang-rock arrangement so that they can lob stones at themselves for sinning.

 

[jewscout]

Well if you want to get technical about it the Torah only has a prohibition against male homosexuality not lesbianism.

 

[Green Gaia]

This is something I don't understand... Practicing homosexuals claim to be Christians while both the New and Old Testament of the Bible condemn the homosexual act. What do you all make of this?

A fair question coming from the viewpoint of the moderan Christian. I think the difference is, not all Christians read the Bible literally. Many things said in both the Old and New Testaments must be understood through cultural and contextual issues. The Bible clearly supports slavery in the OT, but slavery is seen as immoral today. The verses in the NT that suggest homosexuality is immoral are all found in Paul's letter to the early churches, of which we have only one side of the conversation. We don't know for sure what problem he was responding to. There is also the issue of problems with translation. You cannot make a completely accurate translation of any language into another, it cannot be done. We can get close, but still it's not perfect.

So, for the non-literalist who seeks to follow Jesus' teaching on love and compassion, homosexuality is not an issue.

 

[fromthe heart]

I ,too,don't understand how some can profess to be Christian and act immoral by Bible standards. I don't say they are condemned but didn't the Bible say go and sin no more? I don't understand gays to be honest being a 'straight' in my sexual preference, but the Bible does say that is is an abomination unto the Lord didn't it?

 

[Green Gaia]

but the Bible does say that is is an abomination unto the Lord didn't it?

That is the question.... did it? And are we sure that's what God intended? What excatly was he talking about it? Loving commited relationships or rape, which was rampant at the time? Also, if loving, commited homosexuals were such an abomination to the Lord, why didn't Jesus speak of this? He seemed to be more upset by the people not following the ursury laws than by homosexuality if we are to go by his actions.

 

[Valjean]

If a Christian were to follow the bible, s/he'd have to adhere to kosher dietary laws and observe the sabbath (Saturday) restrictions. He'd have to sacrifice various colors, sexes and numbers of goats and sheep on a regular basis, and, of course, for infractions of law. Since imprisonment is a little difficult for people living in tents in the desert, penalties tend to be of the corporal or sacrificial kind.

 

[painted wolf]

yeah and Bible says that women should be quiet in church, because having a woman talk there is an 'abomination'. It also says never wear cloth made of two materials together. (sorry no cotton/poly blend sweaters) And so on.

wa:do

 

[fromthe heart]

Maize...I'm new here...so what do you see as the answer to that question...is it wrong,right or is the jury still out?

 

[Green Gaia]

Maize...I'm new here...so what do you see as the answer to that question...is it wrong,right or is the jury still out?

I do not believe that the Bible, or God, condemns loving, committed homosexual relationships. I have seen enough proof for me and through my own reason and experience, have included that there is nothing innately wrong with homosexuality. The verses that are used against homosexuals today are vague at best, and given the translation problems that occur when going through several different languages, those verses do not hold up, IMO. So, it is left to our reason and for the Christian, Jesus' teachings of love and compassion, to discern what to make of homosexuality.

 

[Fluffy]

In my view: Christianity does not oppose homosexuality. The Bible has been infected by this anti gay message and I will happily argue with anyone about any passage from the Bible that they believe supports this and comes from God. Does the Bible contain any feminist ideas? No. Why? Feminism was not even considered during when it was written. So why should we follow social ideals which were formed thousands of years ago?

May I also add that homosexuality is the only crime that is considered immoral by most Chrisitians today which causes NO HARM to anybody.

 

[fromthe heart]

I do not believe that the Bible, or God, condemns loving, committed homosexual relationships. I have seen enough proof for me and through my own reason and experience, have included that there is nothing innately wrong with homosexuality. The verses that are used against homosexuals today are vague at best, and given the translation problems that occur when going through several different languages, those verses do not hold up, IMO. So, it is left to our reason and for the Christian, Jesus' teachings of love and compassion, to discern what to make of homosexuality.

But...didn't God destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for that very reason?

 

[Green Gaia]

But...didn't God destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for that very reason?

No, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality, not homosexuality.

 

[fromthe heart]

No, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality, not homosexuality.

But wasn't Lot and his family told to leave this place due to the immoral acts in the city? And told not to look back if they meant to turn away from this sort of ways and when Lot's wife looked back she was turned to a pillar of salt in punishment for looking back on that way of life?

 

[Fluffy]

The passage in question is claimed to be about the inhabitants of Sodom dying for their sin of homosexuality. This assumption is made by how the population wish to rape the angels (who are assumed male) and their consequent destruction is seen to show God being against gays. Of course a far more logical assumption would be to assume God is punishing them for rape.... but hey you are only going to see what you want to see. The fact that they raped Lot's daughters is ignored although this is proof that they were at the very least bisexual (if indeed the gender of their victim was at all motivation for their crimes). To be honest, whilst this passage is often cited as an anti-gay passage, its argument is rather loose and their are far "better" passages in the Bible if one wishes to condemn homosexuality.

 

[Green Gaia]

These will explain better than I:


The Story of Sodom - Genesis 19:1-25
Many people carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the city of Sodom because of homosexuality. A careful look however, reveals that this is unlikely.

Two angels were sent to Sodom by God, where Lot, Abraham's nephew, persuades the divine travelers to stay in his home. It is important to note that travelers depended on the kindness of strangers. Ancient hospitality codes required people to offer food, shelter and protection to people who were traveling. Without these codes travel would have been difficult, if not impossible.

After the Angels ate and were preparing for bed, all of the people of Sodom converged on Lots home, demanding that the angels come out so that the towns people might know(rape) them. In an effort to protect his guests, Lot denies the angry mob access to the angels, but offers his two virgin daughters instead. This suggests Lot knew his neighbors to be heterosexual. The townspeople refuse, and charge at Lot in an attempt to gain access to the angels. At this point the angels pull Lot back inside the house, and render the angry crowd blind so they can not find the door. The angels then warn Lot to gather his family and leave the city because it will soon be destroyed.

Much confusion over this passage has to do with the phrase to know them. The Hebrew word yadha (to know) has several different meanings throughout the Bible. In most cases it means to "have thorough knowledge of." In many cases it means "to check the credentials of", and in some cases may mean to "have sex with". In this case, however, it is clear that the townspeople wanted to harm the strangers, and because of ancient hospitaliy codes, Lot felt compelled to protect his guests. The townspeople wanted to perform an act of violence by raping the angels, a grave violation of ancient hospitality codes.

Homosexual rape was not uncommon. Kings of conquered tribes were sometimes raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. The men in these armies were not homosexual, they were heterosexuals performing an act of violence. Never in any culture has more than a minority of the population been homosexual, and it is unlikely that all of the men in these armies or all the men of Sodom were gay.

Unfortunately, some people have focused on rape as a sexual act, rather than an act of violence, and have missed the point completely. The reason for Sodom's destruction is made clear in Ezekiel 16:48-50. According to Ezekiel, the sins of Sodom were pride, laziness, being inhospitable, neglecting the needs of the poor, greed, and idolatry (the worshipping of idols). Nothing about homosexuality is mentioned, nor is it mentioned in any other passage of Scripture which refers to the account of Sodom.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030417013301/hcqsa.virtualave.net/bible.html


Another link about Sodom and Gomorrah

 

[Fluffy]

As a side note, Sodom originally meant destruction (referring to Gods total destruction of the place) and did not come to have anything to do with homosexuality until much later.