1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Homosexuality and religious.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Spirit of Light, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,776
    Ratings:
    +13,209
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Without context that quote is meaningless.
     
  2. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    7,949
    Ratings:
    +5,463
    Religion:
    None
    But you spent 20 odd pages denying it!!
    You really haven't a clue what's going on, poor thing.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    7,949
    Ratings:
    +5,463
    Religion:
    None
    Dear gods!
    The context was the post before, that you have to accept what Bahaullah says, without question, even if it is nonsensical.
    He gave the example of left being right and north being south of things that you have to blindly accept to show how nonsensical it could be.
     
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,776
    Ratings:
    +13,209
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I never denied the Baha'i Laws and teachings on homosexuality.
    You really haven't a clue what's going on.
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,776
    Ratings:
    +13,209
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Without context that quote is meaningless.
     
  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    12,377
    Ratings:
    +8,827
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Here it is in context. Please correct me, but, I'm reading this as a clear instruction to believe even an outright contradiction as truth if it is coming from a messenger.

    "Consider thou and call to mind the time when Muḥammad appeared. He said, and His word is the truth: is a service due to God.’ And likewise are the daily prayer, fasting, and the laws which shone forth above the horizon of the Book of God, the Lord of the World and the true Educator of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. It is incumbent upon everyone to obey Him in whatsoever God hath ordained; and whosoever denieth Him hath disbelieved in God, in His verses, in His Messengers and in His Books. Were He to pronounce right to be wrong or denial to be belief, He speaketh the truth as bidden by God. This is a station wherein sins or trespasses neither exist nor are mentioned. Consider thou the blessed, the divinely-revealed verse in which pilgrimage to the House is enjoined upon everyone. It devolved upon those invested with authority after Him 11 to observe whatever had been prescribed unto them in the Book. Unto no one is given the right to deviate from the laws and ordinances of God. Whoso deviateth therefrom is reckoned with the trespassers in the Book of God, the Lord of the Mighty Throne.

    O thou who hast fixed thy gaze upon the Dawning-Place of the Cause of God! Know thou for a certainty that the Will of God is not limited by the standards of the people, and God doth not tread in their ways. Rather is it incumbent upon everyone to firmly adhere to God’s straight Path. Were He to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it. Verily He is to be praised in His acts and to be obeyed in His behests. He hath no associate in His judgement nor any helper in His sovereignty. He doeth whatsoever He willeth and ordaineth whatsoever He 110 pleaseth. Know thou moreover that all else besides Him have been created through the potency of a word from His presence, while of themselves they have no motion nor stillness, except at His bidding and by His leave."

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 101-134
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  7. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    7,949
    Ratings:
    +5,463
    Religion:
    None
    Prepare yourself for a long trip down the rabbit hole, with countless contradictions, denials and reversals of position.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  8. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    7,949
    Ratings:
    +5,463
    Religion:
    None
    But you did deny that Bahai teachings contain "a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality" Homophobia - Wikipedia
    Now you accept that they do. Not only that, you happily admit that you agree with those homophobic passages - thus making you a homophobe yourself.
    QED.

    And you will probably now contradict yourself again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  9. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2018
    Messages:
    6,406
    Ratings:
    +849
    Religion:
    None
    Actually, many species get married - only it's called 'mating for life' or 'paired for life.'
    Humans 'naturally' bond in social ceremony and have likely done so BEFORE the arrival of modern humans.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2018
    Messages:
    6,406
    Ratings:
    +849
    Religion:
    None
    So here's the problem. I say that pederasty could be legal one day (sex with pubescent and willing minors) and many say. 'Can't ever happen, it's against the law.'
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,776
    Ratings:
    +13,209
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Thank you for the full context. I saved the passages for future reference.

    It is incumbent upon everyone to obey Him in whatsoever God hath ordained; and whosoever denieth Him hath disbelieved in God, in His verses, in His Messengers and in His Books. Were He to pronounce right to be wrong or denial to be belief, He speaketh the truth as bidden by God.

    Rather is it incumbent upon everyone to firmly adhere to God’s straight Path. Were He to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it. Verily He is to be praised in His acts and to be obeyed in His behests.

    He was not saying that right is wrong or that denial is belief, and He was not saying that right is left or south is north. He was trying to make the point that we are not to question what God has revealed, we are to obey it.

    This a clear instruction to obey what God has revealed through the Messenger, even if what was revealed makes no sense to us.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,232
    Ratings:
    +622
    Religion:
    Christian
    Tb paints herself into a corner by forgetting (or pretending to forget) claims she has previously made. Actually, it’s worse than this; she often says she makes no claims. :facepalm: She thinks she understands logical reasoning; she obviously doesn’t.
    When confronted by posts which shine a light on her idiosyncrasies, she either ignores them or responds to them with nonsense that no one, including herself, understands.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,776
    Ratings:
    +13,209
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I am not a homophobe because I do not have a dislike of or prejudice against gay people.

    homophobia: dislike of or prejudice against gay people.
    what is homophobia - Google Search

    I also do not have a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality.
    QED.

    I agree with the Baha'i Laws regarding homosexuality, that is all.
    How I think and feel about homosexuals is an entirely different matter.
     
  14. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,232
    Ratings:
    +622
    Religion:
    Christian
    Tb describes your post as 'optimistic', rather than friendly, funny, useful etc.
    Is this a good sign? Has she seen the light?
     
  15. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    36,260
    Ratings:
    +22,353
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    I feel fortunate to be in a religion that not only allows, but encourages folks to think for themselves. Therefore, I can use my own wisdom and common sense to follow the science on such things, which is that homosexuality is a normal thing that happens naturally to a certain percentage of people. Sexuality, in general has nothing to do with the soul, or atman.

    Sadly, some adherents of some religions have to rely on an archaic book for such decisions, and by the rules of that faith, and feel they have to adhere to its laws, however Draconian they might be.

    From that, I can easily see why a person might conclude any member of certain religions to be homophobic.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
  16. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,232
    Ratings:
    +622
    Religion:
    Christian
    Right is left.
    North is south.
    Nonsense is truth. Yes, that sounds like MrB.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  17. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    12,377
    Ratings:
    +8,827
    Religion:
    Judaism
    You may not, but infallible messengers did.
    If someone supports the position described above. They are supporting homophobia per the Wikipedia definition.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,776
    Ratings:
    +13,209
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    No, what he was optimistic about is that I ever denied anything.
    I never denied the Baha'i teachings and Laws on homosexuality.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    40,776
    Ratings:
    +13,209
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    True.
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    31,987
    Ratings:
    +15,495
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    Sure, if a democratic government votes for it, it can be legal. Because the concept of law established by majority is followed only in democratic countries. I do not see any problem with it. Do you think any democratic government will do this?
     
    #640 Aupmanyav, Sep 22, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...