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Homeowners Associations - the new fascism?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stevicus, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    Woman takes on HOA with marijuana signs

    I was wondering what others thought about HOAs. Should they be banned? I hear of stories like this all the time. There have also been times where someone wanted to fly a flag and was told they could do it. Does it infringe on property rights? It's not like these people are renting someone else's property. Once they buy it, it's theirs to do with what they will. How can there be any such thing as "CC&Rs" in a country which claims to champion "property rights"?

    And if it's okay for HOAs to do this, why not the government?
     
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  2. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

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    Well, people generally agree to be part of the HOA.

    I guess it would depend on whether or not you can freely leave the HOA and terminate your contract with them. If that's allowed (they stop bothering you, you stop paying them, they stop mowing the lawn and letting you use their services) that might be an alright situation.

    Otherwise, I think it wouldn't be fascist, but more like a petty direct democracy. The whole "mob-rule-let's-vote-Socrates-to-death-for-the-greater-good" kind of democracy, to be specific. You know, like the villains from Hot Fuzz.
     
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  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    HOAs, like condo associations, are joined voluntarily. And their existence
    is all about property rights. But when you join one, you knowingly agree to
    limit some of your rights.
    Alas, people too often don't perform their due diligence to discover what
    they're becoming part of. Some of them are horrible. I should know....I've
    managed properties subject to their rules, whims & fancies. And I once
    lived in a planned community (Columbia MD). That was a valued learning
    experience...never again.
     
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  4. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Not all HOA's are voluntary--- if you purchase property within their sometimes draconian (Orwellian?) scope?

    You "agree" to abide by their dictatorial behaviors.

    Personally, I think they are all bordering on unconstitutional, as the homeowners frequently have no Due Process, nor a right to privacy, etc. You cannot sign away your constitutionally guaranteed rights, at least you are not supposed to be able to.

    I have a low opinion of these, as they are typically run by self-entitled busybodies who love poking their unwanted noses into everyone else's business. Typically so that no one looks too closely at theirs.
     
  5. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    One could argue that no one forced them to buy there. If abiding by the rules of the local HOA is a deal breaker for you, buy somewhere else, maybe?

    We don't really have HOAs here, so I could be missing something here, but if there's something about a heighbourhood you don't like, not moving to that neighbourhood, rather than trying to change it seems sensible.
     
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  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    If one doesn't like their rules, then tis best to not buy property subject to them.

    Note that courts have held some deed restrictions to be illegal, eg,
    a ban in perpetuity against selling to a negro, with the sanction being
    that property would revert to other heirs.
    Other rules cannot be enforced too. I once had a condo association
    try to evict my tenant because she had children. Of course, this violated
    fair housing laws. The association had to pay my tenant damages.
     
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  7. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    The government already does. I received tickets for parking on my own lawn instead of my driveway. Also, whenever my grass grows too high past a certain height, I get an orange door hanger tag giving me a set amount of time before I cut my lawn before the inspector comes over, enters my property and looks to see if I'm compliant with my grass height.

    If I leave my garbage can out one day after pickup I get another orange ticket. All cans must be lined and unison with every house in the neighborhood with the back wheels facing my house.

    It's part of their "beautification" ordinance.
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    And snow removal.
    In my town, one can clear sidewalks as required by law.
    Then city plows come thru, putting snow back on the sidewalks.
    And along comes The Man, ticketing one for unremoved snow.
    Don't let the city come to remove it....they overcharge the
    bejeezus for the service.
     
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  9. Flame

    Flame Old No. 7

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    HOA.. one of the many reasons I enjoy living in the middle of nowhere. :D
     
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  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    And it's best if your local building inspector is a farmer...
    ...someone who knows that baling wire repairs are code.
     
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  11. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I really wish I was in nowhere land other than the city.
     
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  12. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Gosh!
     
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  13. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of the Society under IT, from A Wrinkle In Time...
     
  14. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    I'm not disputing your first sentence, but people are kind of naive when it comes to purchasing property. They foolishly think the actually *own* that property they just "purchased"-- even if they pay cash.

    Think you own that lot out in the country? Think again: Try not paying taxes on that, see how long you have before summary eviction.
     
  15. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Not all homeowner associations are bad or abusive. I'd wager the vast majority of them aren't, but as usual, it's the freaks that get picked up by garbage sensationalist news and then become the center of awareness in people.

    In some cases there really isn't a choice about being or not being in an association. Some cities - my own included - have serious problems with the housing market. I live in a college town, which means your options are basically throwing your money away to rental companies who charge outrageous monthly prices, paying at least a quarter of a million dollars for homes that definitely don't warrant that price tag or are way too big for what you need anyway, or having a reasonably affordable condo that's part of an association. In my town, associations are really the only way to go for a first time home buyer because nothing else is affordable. The associations help keep these buildings off the rental market with codes so they areas don't get flooded with college students who have a habit of being both bad neighbors and trashing properties (thus depreciating home values).
     
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  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    Aye, people should be more careful about purchases.
    Real estate can bite one in the arsch.....as it's done to me many times.

    Government has the ultimate lein on all real estate.
    We only own it at their pleasure.
     
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  17. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Sometimes a managed property is your only practical option, though. Like an ISP contract, you have no choice but to click on accept.
    Me, I liked living in Colombia.
    LOL -- I once got a traffic ticket for using wire to affix a license plate that kept coming loose; took me half an hour to cut the wire off and replace it with screws, license plate was loose again in a few weeks. :mad:
     
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  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    I discovered that the Architectural Committee gets to say what color I repaint my house there.
    You should see what horrors happen to license plates on trailers.
    Wire....fender washers....extra holes....bending....it all happens.
     
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  19. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Yeah, no clotheslines, no swingsets, McD's couldn't put up their golden arches, but it was pretty and uncluttered, wasn't it?
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Heathen Libertarian Capitalist
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    Not nearly as pretty as nearby Ellicott City.
    It was rather bland...but I liked the bike paths.
    But after I left, I heard that it fell into decline.

    I lived on Goodbody Ct, near that pond.
    I think that area was called "The Birches" because of the dying birches at the entry.
    (Birches don't like that southerly climate.)
     
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