Holy Water (Pagan/Neo-Pagan DIR)

[The Hammer]

I have recently been incorporating more Symbology and Tools into my Rituals, as called for by the Druid organization I have been a part of for a few years now. Up until now much of my Ritual has been very free-form, and therefore by it's nature I realize not very Ritual like, considering a ritual is something that is done in a set order.

Now this is backstory is more or less off topic from what I wanted to get at with my OP, which is as a Pagan, do you utilize Holy Water in your Rituals or Ceremonies? As this is one of the requirements of Ritual for the group I am studying with. I know that not all, or many use what they would consider Holy Water (or maybe they don't call it that, due to connotation with Christianity). But I consider "holy" water to be, water that you set aside and make seperate from other waters, to use from ritual. How do you go about making what is normal, Sacred?

 

[Bear Wild]

I have recently been incorporating more Symbology and Tools into my Rituals, as called for by the Druid organization I have been a part of for a few years now. Up until now much of my Ritual has been very free-form, and therefore by it's nature I realize not very Ritual like, considering a ritual is something that is done in a set order.

Now this is backstory is more or less off topic from what I wanted to get at with my OP, which is as a Pagan, do you utilize Holy Water in your Rituals or Ceremonies? As this is one of the requirements of Ritual for the group I am studying with. I know that not all, or many use what they would consider Holy Water (or maybe they don't call it that, due to connotation with Christianity). But I consider "holy" water to be, water that you set aside and make seperate from other waters, to use from ritual. How do you go about making what is normal, Sacred?

I am starting to revise how I practice rituals to increase their importance in my life starting with tomorrow with the summer solstice. It seems to me that if the ritual honors what you believe in and keeps a person connected then the ritual is what it needs to be but mine are mainly by myself for the most part. I am sure in a group something more structured may be better. Ii would be nice to find out.

I remember during my trip to Ireland standing and touching the river Boyne felt saw the water as sacred being of the goddess Boann the symbolic goddess or the river Boyne. Also went to one of the sacred springs now taken over by the catholic religion. Personally I do not like the term "holy water" because of its association the catholic religion. To me all water is sacred no matter its source and should be treated with respect. I suppose it would be symbolic to get water from a spring as a direct gift from the earth but rain is also a gift from the sky. Well those are just a few thoughts. Hope you have a wonderful Summer solstice. I appreciate the posting in this part of the forum for us to think about too.

 

[The Hammer]

I am starting to revise how I practice rituals to increase their importance in my life starting with tomorrow with the summer solstice. It seems to me that if the ritual honors what you believe in and keeps a person connected then the ritual is what it needs to be but mine are mainly by myself for the most part. I am sure in a group something more structured may be better. Ii would be nice to find out.

I remember during my trip to Ireland standing and touching the river Boyne felt saw the water as sacred being of the goddess Boann the symbolic goddess or the river Boyne. Also went to one of the sacred springs now taken over by the catholic religion. Personally I do not like the term "holy water" because of its association the catholic religion. To me all water is sacred no matter its source and should be treated with respect. I suppose it would be symbolic to get water from a spring as a direct gift from the earth but rain is also a gift from the sky. Well those are just a few thoughts. Hope you have a wonderful Summer solstice. I appreciate the posting in this part of the forum for us to think about too.

What is interesting is you bring up all water is sacred, which I most assuredly agree. I merely meant Holy, in the sense of setting it apart from the profane of everyday use, of which place most definitely has a way of making things holy as you noted.
I traveled up to the local mountain and took water from three local natural sources(lake, river, glacial runoff), offering gifts and thanks in return to the spirits there. I am now in the process of exposing the water to the sun and moon, after which I will bottle it for usage.

Edit: Blessed Midsommar to you as well, enjoy the sunshine and warm weather. The gifts of the season.

Edit 2: I too am increasing the care and importance of Ritual in my life, I feel I have too oft neglected it.

 

[Hildeburh]

What is interesting is you bring up all water is sacred, which I most assuredly agree. I merely meant Holy, in the sense of setting it apart from the profane of everyday use, of which place most definitely has a way of making things holy as you noted.
I traveled up to the local mountain and took water from three local natural sources(lake, river, glacial runoff), offering gifts and thanks in return to the spirits there. I am now in the process of exposing the water to the sun and moon, after which I will bottle it for usage.

Edit: Blessed Midsommar to you as well, enjoy the sunshine and warm weather. The gifts of the season.

Edit 2: I too am increasing the care and importance of Ritual in my life, I feel I have too oft neglected it.

I think the mundane/sacred dicotomy would likely not have existed in pre-Christian societies. The body of water may have been seen as connected to a particular regional deity, as a liminal pathway or a traditional deposition site rather than thought of as having power in itself.

In the pagan sense charging of water for use in magic or ritual seems more akin to modern witchcraft.

 

[The Hammer]

I think the mundane/sacred dicotomy would likely not have existed in pre-Christian societies. The body of water may have been seen as connected to a particular regional deity, as a liminal pathway or a traditional deposition site rather than thought of as having power in itself.

In the pagan sense charging of water for use in magic or ritual seems more akin to modern witchcraft.

Did the Druids not use Magic? I am pretty sure they would have. But yes it is kinda of similar to charging water as seen in Wicca. A lot of the Pagan movement is intermingled, and as the group I am a part of is Neo-Pagan they have elements that some may see as more Neo than Pagan. But I am also under the impression that we can never 100% recreate past religions, so I am ok with adding other elements to my reconstructed path, to make a fuller spiritual experience.

 

[The Hammer]

I think the mundane/sacred dicotomy would likely not have existed in pre-Christian societies. The body of water may have been seen as connected to a particular regional deity, as a liminal pathway or a traditional deposition site rather than thought of as having power in itself.

In the pagan sense charging of water for use in magic or ritual seems more akin to modern witchcraft.

I think the mundane/sacred dichotomy most definitely existed (it may have been less pronounced). It's why there were sacred locations like springs, wells, groves, and trees (like Donar's Oak), and objects (talismans and statuary). This destinction may not have been clear cut as it is now of course, but I don't see setting something aside, and with purposeful intention (for ritual) as being anything outside of the realm of Paganism.

 

[Bear Wild]

I think the mundane/sacred dicotomy would likely not have existed in pre-Christian societies. The body of water may have been seen as connected to a particular regional deity, as a liminal pathway or a traditional deposition site rather than thought of as having power in itself.

In the pagan sense charging of water for use in magic or ritual seems more akin to modern witchcraft.

I would disagree. Water as sacred was seen in sacred springs and again in the Boyne river. Water was clearly a part of life yet under the right conditions becomes sacred. The myth of the hazel nuts drop into the well of wisdom and the salmon of knowledge is caught from the sacred river of Boann. The myth connects water and wisdom with the water of the sacred river. At the same time the pre-christian people used water from the river for everyday life. This dichotomy as you say is a recognition that water can be seen as sacred and yet be ubiquitous in a person's life. As for now we can recognize and appreciate the "magic" of water as an essential aspect of life and use it in a ritual. Thus having water from a spring or mountain top, glacier or captured from rain can be symbolic as sacred while drinking water from the tap as a part of the mundane.

 

[Bear Wild]

What is interesting is you bring up all water is sacred, which I most assuredly agree. I merely meant Holy, in the sense of setting it apart from the profane of everyday use, of which place most definitely has a way of making things holy as you noted.
I traveled up to the local mountain and took water from three local natural sources(lake, river, glacial runoff), offering gifts and thanks in return to the spirits there. I am now in the process of exposing the water to the sun and moon, after which I will bottle it for usage.

Edit: Blessed Midsommar to you as well, enjoy the sunshine and warm weather. The gifts of the season.

Edit 2: I too am increasing the care and importance of Ritual in my life, I feel I have too oft neglected it.

I like this type symbolic practice. We can take something which is considered ordinary and see it as extraordinary giving it a special meaning we maintain a connection with natural world and give it respect. My bonfire is out and I have given an offering back to the natural world with the day ending. Hope you had a wonderful summer solstice and would like sometime to know more about how you practice your rituals.

 

[Hildeburh]

I would disagree. Water as sacred was seen in sacred springs and again in the Boyne river. Water was clearly a part of life yet under the right conditions becomes sacred. The myth of the hazel nuts drop into the well of wisdom and the salmon of knowledge is caught from the sacred river of Boann. The myth connects water and wisdom with the water of the sacred river. At the same time the pre-christian people used water from the river for everyday life. This dichotomy as you say is a recognition that water can be seen as sacred and yet be ubiquitous in a person's life. As for now we can recognize and appreciate the "magic" of water as an essential aspect of life and use it in a ritual. Thus having water from a spring or mountain top, glacier or captured from rain can be symbolic as sacred while drinking water from the tap as a part of the mundane.

Bodies of water, springs, rivers, lakes or sea, were/are considered as powerful cultic sites; they were deposition sites, healing sites and sites of sacrifice.

For example, in England the hot springs at Bath were dedicated to the local goddess Sulis, later after Roman invasion to Sulis Minerva, people would leave votive offerings and deposit requests including curses in the spring, not take water for later ritual. Likewise, Condatis was associated with the confluences of rivers and Nehalennia was worshipped by votive offering at the point where travellers crossed the North Sea.

The symbolic use of water collected by various means at various sites and used in later ritual is not well attested in pre-Christian Germanic or Celtic lore. The cornerstone of Germanic and Celtic ritual is propitiation, celebration, request and/or praise of the divine by votive offering and sacrifice.

 

[Bear Wild]

Bodies of water, springs, rivers, lakes or sea, were/are considered as powerful cultic sites; they were deposition sites, healing sites and sites of sacrifice.

For example, in England the hot springs at Bath were dedicated to the local goddess Sulis, later after Roman invasion to Sulis Minerva, people would leave votive offerings and deposit requests including curses in the spring, not take water for later ritual. Likewise, Condatis was associated with the confluences of rivers and Nehalennia was worshipped by votive offering at the point where travellers crossed the North Sea.

The symbolic use of water collected by various means at various sites and used in later ritual is not well attested in pre-Christian Germanic or Celtic lore. The cornerstone of Germanic and Celtic ritual is propitiation, celebration, request and/or praise of the divine by votive offering and sacrifice.

Very interesting and gives us objective insight to our past. One amazing site in England I would love to see is the causeway at Fiskerton. This causeway onto a body of water is fascinating with many of the timbers used believed to harvested during winter lunar eclipses. Causeways are connected with votive practices and spiritual honoring and ritual.

Here is just one link to the area.

www.lincstothepast.com/Fiskerton-causeway/234121.record?pt=S

 

[Hildeburh]

Very interesting and gives us objective insight to our past. One amazing site in England I would love to see is the causeway at Fiskerton. This causeway onto a body of water is fascinating with many of the timbers used believed to harvested during winter lunar eclipses. Causeways are connected with votive practices and spiritual honoring and ritual.

Here is just one link to the area.

www.lincstothepast.com/Fiskerton-causeway/234121.record?pt=S

It's an amazing site an awesome example of the Iron Age practice of ritually destroying objects before placing them in a body of water.

 

[Hildeburh]

What is interesting is you bring up all water is sacred, which I most assuredly agree. I merely meant Holy, in the sense of setting it apart from the profane of everyday use, of which place most definitely has a way of making things holy as you noted.
I traveled up to the local mountain and took water from three local natural sources(lake, river, glacial runoff), offering gifts and thanks in return to the spirits there. I am now in the process of exposing the water to the sun and moon, after which I will bottle it for usage.

Edit: Blessed Midsommar to you as well, enjoy the sunshine and warm weather. The gifts of the season.

Edit 2: I too am increasing the care and importance of Ritual in my life, I feel I have too oft neglected it.

In the Germanic context there is no evidence that water per se was considered 'holy' but rather specific bodies of water seem to have been connected to ritual because they were considered liminal places or connected to certain wights.

Personally, as a Germanic neopagan I wouldn't use the words sacred or holy as there is no evidence that these words were used in a religious context before the coming of Christianity. OE (Old English) hālig (holy) is found frequently in OE Christian literature.

Really glad you offered a gift to the wights before took something that is fundimental to our folkway.

 

[The Hammer]

In the Germanic context there is no evidence that water per se was considered 'holy' but rather specific bodies of water seem to have been connected to ritual because they were considered liminal places or connected to certain wights.

Personally, as a Germanic neopagan I wouldn't use the words sacred or holy as there is no evidence that these words were used in a religious context before the coming of Christianity. OE (Old English) hālig (holy) is found frequently in OE Christian literature.

Really glad you offered a gift to the wights before took something that is fundimental to our folkway.

Completely understand not using those terms in a Germanic Pagan context, I used them because I was hoping to be easily understood, as to what point I was trying to convey. I hope to learn a little OE and ON so that I can look at the stories of our Folk in clearer context.

As for the giving of gifts to the Wights: I find this to be a central part of my beliefs, “I give that You may give.” I make offerings to the Gods, Ancestors and Spirits/Wights as appropriate. This builds a relationship with these Spirits and Powers, so that one may receive their blessings in return.

Excerpt From: Ar nDraiocht Fein: A Druid Fellowship. “Dedicant Manual.” Apple Books.

 

[Quintessence]

There are a couple things that come to mind when it comes to using water (the substance) in ritual practice for me.

The first is that I happen to live near a small body of water. When I go to honor the Spirits of the Land, this is the main place that I visit because it is the nearest relatively wild area. I will sometimes consecrate in honor of the Spirits with the waters. It is to signify a connection or relationship between myself and the Land as I offer my thanks to it and my dependence upon it. I don't know if I would call this "holy water" - my path holds the perspective of sacredness in all things. That said, places I develop relationships with through practice become particularly sacred, you could say. It's not much different than having certain humans more important in your life because you know them better?

The second is that I use oils to anoint for more formal rituals. However, oils are not water, so I'm not sure this really counts? More specifically, I use oils that correspond to the Sacred Four since they are a centerpiece of my practice. During Summer Solstice, I'll anoint with Oil of Fire, for instance, while during Midsummer I'll anoint with both Oil of Fire and Oil of Earth to represent the transition in the Cycle. It's partly symbolic, partly functional, but the mixtures also smell nice. It helps signify that this is a time between times, a place between places, to honor the gods and a special event - and that my body is connected to it, not just mind/spirit.

 

[Hildeburh]

As for the giving of gifts to the Wights: I find this to be a central part of my beliefs, “I give that You may give.” I make offerings to the Gods, Ancestors and Spirits/Wights as appropriate. This builds a relationship with these Spirits and Powers, so that one may receive their blessings in return.

Excerpt From: Ar nDraiocht Fein: A Druid Fellowship. “Dedicant Manual.” Apple Books.

I agree that votive offerings build relationships with some wights but votive offerings are also acts of propitiation and of praise. Some wights do not want relationships with us let alone feel they should give us something in return for a gift.

 

[LuxEx9]

In Southeast Asian Buddhist culture, we make a kind of "holy water," called "Nam Man," in Thai. Nam means "water," and Man is the Thai form of the Sanskrit word "mantra." And so, it's Mantra Water. A Mantra, in Sanskrit meant a "hymn, song, spell, incantation." And so Mantra Water is when a monk meditates, and he chants Pali spells into the water. Pali being the language the Buddha spoke.

In the Mantra Water would go fetish items that have power, such as animal horns, sea shells, rocks. The fetish items charges the water. In the Mantra Water also goes certain plants, depending on what the Mantra Water will be used for. Into the Mantra Water is also dripped the wax of a yellow or white candle. Into the Mantra Water also goes incense smoke of Sandalwood.

When all that is placed in the water, the monk will chant the Pali spell into the water. And that water becomes Mantra Water, which is basically holy water. The Mantra Water is used to consecrate statues and ritual instruments, as well as to give people spiritual baths to help heal them of sickness, disease, or bad luck. Different plants [placed in the water] would be used for those healing purposes, depending on the plants healing or magical properties.

And so, essentially, the process of making Mantra Water consists of Uniting the Four Elements: 1) the Water itself, 2) Earth in the form of the plants and fetish items, 3) Fire in the form of the hot wax of the dripping candle, 4) Air in the form of the smoke of the incense. With the union of the four elements, is added the Breath of Life [prana, chi, pneuma] in the form of the vocal/vibrational chanting of the monk. And lastly, to that id added the Fifth Element: Spirit/Mind in the form of the monk meditating and focusing his mind into the water.

Over in Cuba, animistic Afro-Cuban religions like Santeria and so on, make sacred water in a very, very similar manner, and the sacred water is used for the same exact things: to cleanse and consecrate special objects and statues as well as to give spiritual baths to heal and cleans people's aura and so on.

 

[Friend of Mara]

I have recently been incorporating more Symbology and Tools into my Rituals, as called for by the Druid organization I have been a part of for a few years now. Up until now much of my Ritual has been very free-form, and therefore by it's nature I realize not very Ritual like, considering a ritual is something that is done in a set order.

Now this is backstory is more or less off topic from what I wanted to get at with my OP, which is as a Pagan, do you utilize Holy Water in your Rituals or Ceremonies? As this is one of the requirements of Ritual for the group I am studying with. I know that not all, or many use what they would consider Holy Water (or maybe they don't call it that, due to connotation with Christianity). But I consider "holy" water to be, water that you set aside and make seperate from other waters, to use from ritual. How do you go about making what is normal, Sacred?

I tend to fall into the thought category that everything having to do with ritual and magic is symbolic by its very nature. The most common way I have seen water be turned to "holy water" is to have it cleansed under a full moon. Sometimes putting it in a clear glass bottle and either leaving it outside or in the window where it can bathe in moonlight.

Though I have also run across many people who used different water for different purposes. Collected rainwater, dew collection (very hard), stream or ocean water to them all had different properties and didn't always need to have been purified in any way.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hellenic religion has a tradition of ritual purity which includes holy water.

HellenicGods.org - CHERNIPS - KHǼRNIPS - LUSTRAL WATER

 

[Callisto]

I have recently been incorporating more Symbology and Tools into my Rituals, as called for by the Druid organization I have been a part of for a few years now. Up until now much of my Ritual has been very free-form, and therefore by it's nature I realize not very Ritual like, considering a ritual is something that is done in a set order.

Now this is backstory is more or less off topic from what I wanted to get at with my OP, which is as a Pagan, do you utilize Holy Water in your Rituals or Ceremonies? As this is one of the requirements of Ritual for the group I am studying with. I know that not all, or many use what they would consider Holy Water (or maybe they don't call it that, due to connotation with Christianity). But I consider "holy" water to be, water that you set aside and make seperate from other waters, to use from ritual. How do you go about making what is normal, Sacred?

I use water in both Hellenic reconstructionism and in Traditional Wicca, however the perspective is different in each practice. The ancient Greeks ritually cleansed themselves and any objects to/area the gods were worshiped in with purifying water called khernips which removed miasma (spiritual pollution, not 'sin' but an unavoidable human condition).

As noted by Hesiod in Works And Days: "Never pour a libation of sparkling wine to Zeus after dawn with unwashed hands, nor to others of the deathless gods; otherwise they do not hear your prayers but spit them back."

("after dawn" - The ancient Greeks started their day at sunrise with offerings to the gods made first thing.)

It was believed that sea water is naturally purifying as were bodies of moving water like springs and streams (which were often associated with deities with sanctuaries established nearby). They held these were not as pure as sea water, believing they were connected to the sea but had lost their salinity along the way. To remedy this, waters drawn from local sources where bolstered by the purifying effects of fire by extinguishing sacred herbs or a branch from an altar fire (Hestia), sometimes sulfur was used. Modern practitioners either extinguish burning herbs or approximate sea water by adding sea salt, or use a match in a pinch (as it contains sulfur). This isn't magic, it's viewed as combining substances that inherently possess certain properties.

Traditionally Wicca uses ritual water which is an example of its use of theurgy (magic used to connect with deity). A combination of sea salt with water is blessed and consecrated which is then used to purify ritual space, objects and individuals.