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holy spirit

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
is the holy spirit male? female? or neither?

In Hebrew or Aramaic, the gender of the equivalent word is feminine.
In Greek, the gender of the equivalent word is neuter.
In Latin, the gender of the equivalent word is masculine.

It's pick your favorite language day!

Gender pronouns are only a problem today because people forgot how their own language works.
It's actually sad really. I feel sorry for people. Some people think using "He" to refer to God means He is a man.

In French, Tables are feminine, Books are masculine.
In Hebrew, God, "the Father", is masculine.

And round and round people go today chasing their tails about whether or not God is male. It's sparked an existential crisis.
 

The Holy Bottom Burp

Active Member
yes, I think
Christians might take issue with you on that, though the JWs wouldn't I think. It is so hard to fathom from reading the bible, though I cannot recall a single verse that suggests "it" is a "he" or a "she". Personally, I wont be losing much sleep over it! ;)
 
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David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
is the holy spirit male? female? or neither?

According to the movie "The Shack", the Holy Spirit is a pretty Asian woman. But seriously, I would say neither male nor female. Just referred to in the masculine by most.
 

Ricktheheretic

"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"
In Hebrew or Aramaic, the gender of the equivalent word is feminine.
In Greek, the gender of the equivalent word is neuter.
In Latin, the gender of the equivalent word is masculine.

It's pick your favorite language day!

Gender pronouns are only a problem today because people forgot how their own language works.
It's actually sad really. I feel sorry for people. Some people think using "He" to refer to God means He is a man.

In French, Tables are feminine, Books are masculine.
In Hebrew, God, "the Father", is masculine.

And round and round people go today chasing their tails about whether or not God is male. It's sparked an existential crisis.


In the book of Proverbs wisdom is presented as a character.

1 Does not wisdom call,
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 On the heights beside the way,
in the paths she takes her stand;
3 beside the gates in front of the town,
at the entrance of the portals she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O men, I call,
and my cry is to the sons of men. Proverbs 8:1-4 RSV

I do not know if wisdom is personified as feminine or if it's just that the word wisdom in Hebrew (Hokmah) is feminine. I know the Catholic church regards wisdom as Christ, who was with the father before creation.

22 The Lord created me at the beginning of his work,
the first of his acts of old.
23 Ages ago I was set up,
at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped,
before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 before he had made the earth with its fields,
or the first of the dust of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there,
when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above,
when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit,
so that the waters might not transgress his command,
when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman;
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing before him always,
31 rejoicing in his inhabited world
and delighting in the sons of men. Proverbs 8:22-31 RSV

This is much in line with the Catholic dogma of the Trinity that says that Christ too is God and that he also created the heavens and earth. But one book in the Catholic Bible makes it look like wisdom is probably the Holy Spirit.

6 For wisdom is a kindly spirit
and will not free a blasphemer from the guilt of his words;
because God is witness of his inmost feelings,
and a true observer of his heart, and a hearer of his tongue.
7 Because the Spirit of the Lord has filled the world,
and that which holds all things together knows what is said;
8 therefore no one who utters unrighteous things will escape notice,
and justice, when it punishes, will not pass him by. Wisdom 1:6-8 RSV

I know that in some translations feminine language is also used for wisdom in Wisdom or The Wisdom of Solomon.

In Kabbalah the Holy Spirit (Ruach Kadesh) is feminine and is known as Shekinah "glory" or "presence," the passive part of God that fills Malkuth (the kingdom). In Gnosticism the Holy Spirit is feminine and is some times called "The Mother." In Gnosticism Sophia (wisdom) is a female aeon that is an expression of the Holy Spirit. She is the first aeon to come from the Eternal Father and is responsible for creation, similar to wisdom in the book of Proverbs.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 RSV
 

Ricktheheretic

"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"
In the book of Proverbs wisdom is presented as a character.

1 Does not wisdom call,
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 On the heights beside the way,
in the paths she takes her stand;
3 beside the gates in front of the town,
at the entrance of the portals she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O men, I call,
and my cry is to the sons of men. Proverbs 8:1-4 RSV

I do not know if wisdom is personified as feminine or if it's just that the word wisdom in Hebrew (Hokmah) is feminine. I know the Catholic church regards wisdom as Christ, who was with the father before creation.

22 The Lord created me at the beginning of his work,
the first of his acts of old.
23 Ages ago I was set up,
at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped,
before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 before he had made the earth with its fields,
or the first of the dust of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there,
when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above,
when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit,
so that the waters might not transgress his command,
when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman;
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing before him always,
31 rejoicing in his inhabited world
and delighting in the sons of men. Proverbs 8:22-31 RSV

This is much in line with the Catholic dogma of the Trinity that says that Christ too is God and that he also created the heavens and earth. But one book in the Catholic Bible makes it look like wisdom is probably the Holy Spirit.

6 For wisdom is a kindly spirit
and will not free a blasphemer from the guilt of his words;
because God is witness of his inmost feelings,
and a true observer of his heart, and a hearer of his tongue.
7 Because the Spirit of the Lord has filled the world,
and that which holds all things together knows what is said;
8 therefore no one who utters unrighteous things will escape notice,
and justice, when it punishes, will not pass him by. Wisdom 1:6-8 RSV

I know that in some translations feminine language is also used for wisdom in Wisdom or The Wisdom of Solomon.

In Kabbalah the Holy Spirit (Ruach Kadesh) is feminine and is known as Shekinah "glory" or "presence," the passive part of God that fills Malkuth (the kingdom). In Gnosticism the Holy Spirit is feminine and is some times called "The Mother." In Gnosticism Sophia (wisdom) is a female aeon that is an expression of the Holy Spirit. She is the first aeon to come from the Eternal Father and is responsible for creation, similar to wisdom in the book of Proverbs.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 RSV

I found an alternative Catholic view of wisdom. Wisdom is The Virgin Mary, or the type/proto-type of Mary. http://taylormarshall.com/2011/02/immaculate-mary-and-personified-wisdom.html
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
They are just letters as we've been discussing. You don't pray to God and say Please 'Yod He Vav He' hear this prayer :/
Are you a Christian or a Jew?

The Tetragrammaton's four letters stand for God's personal name. (Jesus name in Hebrew is Yehohshu'a' )
The vowels were Not written down, so that is why the exact pronunciation of God's name is still unknown.
Jews generally accepted the vowel points to read as Yehwah', Yehwih' and Yeho.wah'. (Codex Leningrad B 19 a)
The Masoretic text vowel points the divine name to read as Yeho.wah'.
One Jewish professor said he believed God's personal name is a 3-syllable name, and he favored Ye Ho Wah'.
Many Hebrew scholars favor Yahweh, as did Catholic teachings accept God's name pronounced as Yahweh.
Even the word Halelu-Yah means Praise-Yah, or Latinized as Praise-Jah at Psalms 89:8

Jesus taught Christians to pray that God's name should be hallowed, as in held sacred, sanctified.
So, to me genuine Christians would accept using and praying that God's name should be hallowed.
And please notice what Jesus taught at John 17:6 and at John 17:26 that he declared God's name.
also I find there are two (2) questions asked at Proverbs 30:4 B:
What is his (God's) name, and what is his son's name......
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I found an alternative Catholic view of wisdom. Wisdom is The Virgin Mary, or the type/proto-type of Mary.

True, and I find like Jesus, Mary made many references to the old Hebrew Scriptures showing her wisdom, but as far as Wisdom being Mary, then why did Jesus refer to Mary as ' woman ' at John 2:4; John 19:26.
I can't find a reference to Mary at Proverbs 8:22-23 but rather to Jesus at Revelation 3:14.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Christians might take issue with you on that, though the JWs wouldn't I think. It is so hard to fathom from reading the bible, though I cannot recall a single verse that suggests "it" is a "he" or a "she". Personally, I wont be losing much sleep over it! ;)

One single verse that suggests a neuter spirit "it" is found at Numbers 11:17 ( neither male or female gender )
Another verse that also suggests a neuter spirit "it" is found at Numbers 11:25
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes. Or the spirit of joy at a wedding, or the spirit of sadness at a funeral. A state of being, not an 'invisible intity'.

Spirit of joy as in joyful energy. Spirit of sadness as in diminished energy. Both a state of being.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
sons of god, the angels; if you will.
the first born is not the other, or all born. you are all gods.

I'm thinking your ^ above ^ mention about ' you are all gods ' is referring to Psalms 82.
I find Psalms 82:6 is about: human judges. Judges were called ' gods' because they were to use God's judgement in judging whether something was right or wrong as viewed in God's eyes or viewpoint.
Even as Moses was made ' god ' to Pharaoh according to Exodus 7:1
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm thinking your ^ above ^ mention about ' you are all gods ' is referring to Psalms 82.
I find Psalms 82:6 is about: human judges. Judges were called ' gods' because they were to use God's judgement in judging whether something was right or wrong as viewed in God's eyes or viewpoint.
Even as Moses was made ' god ' to Pharaoh according to Exodus 7:1

You are on a roll. Keep em coming. :)
 

Ricktheheretic

"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"
True, and I find like Jesus, Mary made many references to the old Hebrew Scriptures showing her wisdom, but as far as Wisdom being Mary, then why did Jesus refer to Mary as ' woman ' at John 2:4; John 19:26.
I can't find a reference to Mary at Proverbs 8:22-23 but rather to Jesus at Revelation 3:14.

I'm not out to defend a Roman Catholic position, but I don't think Jesus meant to be disrespectful when he called Mary "woman." A woman is what she was, its like when someone comes up to me and I say "hey man, what do you want?" or "hey dude, how's it going?" As to the Catholic position on Mary as an object of reverence, I'll leave that their apologists.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
The holy spirit must be the most abused concept ever. For hundreds of years it has been used to justify leaders, churches, religions, and even the definition of God (there is no trinity). The holy spirit is with God and His angels. Outside of heaven, there is no holy spirit.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
is the holy spirit male? female? or neither?
If you are a believer, you still probably do not understand things as I do. There is the general Holy Spirit of God which has always been operating by his will. This seems to be God's means of getting his will carried out in the spirit realm and in the physical realm:

Gen 1: 2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1 Samuel 10:10 . . .at once the spirit of God became operative upon him, and he began to speak as a prophet in the middle of them.
Job 33:4 . . .God’s own spirit made me, And the Almighty’s own breath proceeded to bring me to life. . .​

This general God's spirit can be understood to be an integral part of him, just like our hands and feet and eyes, etc. are part of our bodies. In that sense, if this is correct, it does not have a gender separate from God.

Christ holy spirit
Jesus told his followers that if he didn't die, that his spirit could not be sent to them, that which is known as the Helper, the Advocate, the Teacher, the Comforter, and perhaps more names I forget momentarily.

John 7:39 However, he said this concerning the spirit which those who put faith in him were about to receive; for as yet there was no spirit, because Jesus had not yet been glorified. . .
John 16:7, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the (1) Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.(1) Or Advocate ; Or Helper ; Gr Paraclete ) (ASV)​

We were told that this Helper, Advocate, Teacher, Comforter - is personified, called he. We are told that this Christ's spirit is sent by God in the name of Christ; thus, it is Christ's by being bequeathed to Christ by God, by God sending it out in Christ's name.
John 14:25-26, `These things I have spoken to you, remaining with you, 26and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you. (YLT)​
Since this Advocate, Teacher is personified as 'he' - that is what I understand. It is Christ's spirit sent out to his disciples to teach them, to help them.

Rom 8: 9 . . .But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.​

As you can see, the subject is more complex than a first look makes one believe.
Please look at this link for more on this:
Truth Seeker - The Helper





 
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Electra

Active Member
What if . . .
The Holy Spirit is Our personal connection to god force.
And actually, they are not singular, but several (7) spirits that make this bond.

^.^
 
If there was a god it would not have genitals because it does not reproduce or dispose of waste like humans. What would be the purpose for god to be male or female if he or she didn't have an equal counterpart. The simpler explanation is that God was created in man's image.
 
And the holy spirit makes absolutely no sense. It's an energy that lives in all of creation and yet is conveniently the one thing we can't see and identify with any known technology
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I'm not out to defend a Roman Catholic position, but I don't think Jesus meant to be disrespectful when he called Mary "woman." A woman is what she was, its like when someone comes up to me and I say "hey man, what do you want?" or "hey dude, how's it going?" As to the Catholic position on Mary as an object of reverence, I'll leave that their apologists.

You're not alone in thinking that Jesus meant disrespect to Mary.
I have found No one thinks disrespect when Jesus, at his death, entrusted his mother to John at John 19:26-27.
Originally we know the Bible was Not written in modern English as the expressions used in the above post.
In some languages as Jesus used the word for woman would also be used as in the word for 'lady'.
Jesus was stressing that since his day of baptism that now he was primarily God's spiritual Son.
Jesus' mother, since his baptism, would now be ' Jerusalem above ' as his mother according to Galatians 4:26.
Jesus now primarily be connected to a ' spiritual family ' according to Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 3:31-35; Luke 8:19-21.
So, I find by Jesus referring to Mary as woman, Not disrespect, but simply showing us that his direction to change water into wine was Not actually coming from Mary, but coming from the Authority who sent Jesus to earth, His God.
Mary showed No offence, but quickly understood Jesus by her remarking to the attendants to 'do what Jesus tells them to do' at John 2:5
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The simpler explanation is that God was created in man's image.

I find Scripture is Not talking about God's literal image features, but rather His qualities or attributes.
God's main qualities are: love, justice, wisdom and mercy.
So, mankind can express or posses those main attributes in varying degrees.
Mankind can cultivate the fruitage of God's spirit as listed at Galatians 5:22-23
Such as: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self-control.
Thus showing man was created in God's reflected spiritual image, or His spiritual reflection, Not literal features.
 
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