Holy ghost or holy spirit?

[TashaN]

I would read that differently (I usually Do)
I think Jesus is saying that while I am here you do not need the services of the comforter, But when I am gone be assured he will be with you.
He was reassuring them and reminding them, that the comfortor (Holy spirit ) is always with them.

This is a simpler explanation, with out the need of supposing that the infinite Holy spirit ever needs to be sent anywhere, as he is everywhere all the time.

Terry______________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

How can you explain the verses i just mentioned that the comforter may be a prophet?

 

[Scott1]

How can you explain the verses i just mentioned that the comforter may be a prophet?

Well, if you try really, really hard to try and jam your prophet into the Bible, I am sure you can "explain" anything.

The term "Spirit" translates the Hebrew word ruah, which, in its primary sense, means breath, air, wind. Jesus indeed uses the sensory image of the wind to suggest to Nicodemus the transcendent newness of him who is personally God's breath, the divine Spirit. On the other hand, "Spirit" and "Holy" are divine attributes common to the three divine persons. By joining the two terms, Scripture, liturgy, and theological language designate the inexpressible person of the Holy Spirit, without any possible equivocation with other uses of the terms "spirit" and "holy."

 

[Merlin]

We are just striving to realize this great truth [/font]

What form does this striving take?

 

[Merlin]

another thing please ..

Was the holy spirit or the holy ghost there before Jesus (PBUH) was born or not?

No. He came down to earth at Pentecost. (the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the disciples of Jesus following his ascension, Pentecost is considered the "birthday" of the Christian church. (Acts 2:1-11) )

 

[Merlin]

The holy ghost has always been around.

What makes you so certain, and what do you think happened at Pentecost?

 

[Merlin]

thanks for you posts Scott1 and Katzpur.

one more thing please if you don't mind.

"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". (HOLY BIBLE) John 16:7

Is that means he wasn't there before Jesus so he will send his later on when he depart?

Exactly.

 

[Merlin]

thanks for you posts Scott1 and Katzpur.

one more thing please if you don't mind.

"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". (HOLY BIBLE) John 16:7

Is that means he wasn't there before Jesus so he will send his later on when he depart?

For a Moslem, you seem to spend an awful lot of time studying the Bible. does your mosque know?

 

[Merlin]

Yep.

Or do you believe that Jesus sent Mohammed? (but if I depart, I will send him unto you".)

Anything is possible. The Moslem religion is so close to Christian ideals as to be almost indistinguishable. The one thing I would give to Islamic which we have lost is their refusal to have any worship of anything except God (Allah). Whereas we get very close to worshipping Jesus as an entity himself, and some religions also virtually worship Mary and Joseph and many saints. Most churches also have many statues and pictures, which strictly speaking have always been forbidden.

So maybe you should not be quite so dismissive of your idea.(no I am not Moslem)

 

[Scott1]

No. He came down to earth at Pentecost. (the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the disciples of Jesus following his ascension, Pentecost is considered the "birthday" of the Christian church. (Acts 2:1-11) )

Birthday of the Church, not the birthday of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 1:18 NIV
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:16, 4:1

etc etc....

 

[Scott1]

The Moslem religion is so close to Christian ideals as to be almost indistinguishable.

Not even close.

Whereas we get very close to worshipping Jesus as an entity himself, and some religions also virtually worship Mary and Joseph and many saints. Most churches also have many statues and pictures, which strictly speaking have always been forbidden.

Jesus is God.... we can't worship God "incorrectly" by worshipping Jesus.

The statues and pictures remark is not even worthy of a comment.

So maybe you should not be quite so dismissive of your idea.(no I am not Moslem)

..or maybe I should be.

 

[TashaN]

The Comforter in John 14: 26 can never be the "Holy Ghost" because Jesus (pbuh) had already explained ...

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 16

The emphasis here is on the word "ANOTHER," an other, a different one, an additional one, but of the same kind, yet distinctly different from the first. Who is then the first Comforter? The Christian world is unanimous that in this case the speaker himself — Jesus Christ (pbuh) is the first Comforter; then the other, the one to follow must be of like nature, subject to the same conditions of hunger, thirst, fatigue, sorrow and death.

So, that means Jesus was a comforter"prophet" too as he just mentioned in the verse John 14: 16 and he will send another comforter "prophet" if he departed.

 

[Scott1]

The Comforter in John 14: 26 can never be the "Holy Ghost" because Jesus (pbuh) had already explained ...

You just keep on pluggin along..... :banghead3

You can continue to try to twist the Bible to fit your faith, but the Paraclete is so much more than a mere prophet.... Jesus is so much more than a mere prophet.... etc etc.... Christians have thrown off the shackles of the Law, and I don't plan on putting on a different set any time soon.

.... but keep on trying.

 

[TashaN]

You just keep on pluggin along..... :banghead3

You can continue to try to twist the Bible to fit your faith, but the Paraclete is so much more than a mere prophet.... Jesus is so much more than a mere prophet.... etc etc.... Christians have thrown off the shackles of the Law, and I don't plan on putting on a different set any time soon.

.... but keep on trying.

Actually i'm surprised why you think i'm twisting the bible because i'm just producing some verses and you didn't even look at these verses. You are just trying to go after my intention and that i'm trying to twist the bible.

please just be a professional and discuss with me the verses and what does it mean if you don't mind.

Here i'll produce an evidence that Jesus was a "holy spririt" too from the dictionary.

Encyclopedia
Paraclete (pâr'əklēt) , in the New Testament, title of the Holy Spirit, often translated as “Comforter” or “Advocate.” In First John, Jesus himself is the “Paraclete.”

http://www.answers.com/paraclete&r=67


Therefore, as we just have seen that Jesus was a comforter. So, he will send another comforter as he said.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 16

Nevertheless, the new comforter supposed to be a prophet or god?

 

[Merlin]

You just keep on pluggin along..... :banghead3

You can continue to try to twist the Bible to fit your faith, but the Paraclete is so much more than a mere prophet.... Jesus is so much more than a mere prophet.... etc etc.... Christians have thrown off the shackles of the Law, and I don't plan on putting on a different set any time soon.

.... but keep on trying.

Is it important? We all seem to be getting very hot under the collar about something which none of us can prove and frankly doesn't really matter whether there is one or two or 10. Long as we have one (or more) to guide ius when we need it

I do find that many of these threads eventually evolve down to the minute interpretation of insignificant things. We seem to lose the general idea of trying to do God's will.

Religion is quite simple really

 

[Scott1]

Here i'll produce an evidence that Jesus was a "holy spririt" too from the dictionary.

"evidence" :biglaugh:

You ask a Christian to explain what a verse in a Christian Bible means, and then when provided with an answer, decide that you know better?

Nevertheless, the new comforter supposed to be a prophet or god?

Christ was God, and so sent ANOTHER God.... but as I have shown in other threads, the Holy Spirit was around BEFORE this happened (read the birth narrative in Matthew)... Jesus was speaking figuratively to help explain the role of the Holy Spirit after Christ's bodily death.

.... but I am sure that what Christ meant to say was:

Christ: "Just hang around another couple hundred years... I'm sending this guy for you...."

Apostles:"Won't we all be dead by then? Why are you telling us this?"

Christ:"To help explain Islam to Christians 2,000 years from now."

That about explain things?

 

[Scott1]

Is it important? We all seem to be getting very hot under the collar about something which none of us can prove and frankly doesn't really matter whether there is one or two or 10. Long as we have one (or more) to guide ius when we need it

It is quite important to me.

If none of this matters to you, feel free to move on to another forum... we tend to talk about religion a lot here at Religious Forums.

 

[Merlin]

It is quite important to me.

If none of this matters to you, feel free to move on to another forum... we tend to talk about religion a lot here at Religious Forums.

you do seem to get tetchy very quickly Scott. If it is the general view of people that you would like me to stop contributing, then clearly I will.

I was trying to make the generalised point that religion is bigger than these interminable discussions about the minutiae of language. I do not believe in this instance you were discussing religion at all, just people's interpretations of a small number of verses.

 

[TashaN]

The Moslem religion is so close to Christian ideals as to be almost indistinguishable.

Of course, you are right Merlin.

but Scott1 ...

Not even close.

:biglaugh:

The statues and pictures remark is not even worthy of a comment.
..or maybe I should be.

but i heard that Jesus warned us from idols if you can remember some verses about it.

 

[Scott1]

but Scott1 ...

Do you believe I believe in Jesus Christ, as your divine Lord and Savior?

Do you believe Jesus He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father?

Do you believe He will come again to judge the living and the dead?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit?

Do you believe in the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints?
the forgiveness of sins?
the resurrection of the body?

Oh yeah... keep laughing... we're really similar.

but i heard that Jesus warned us from idols if you can remember some verses about it.

I love it when Muslims try to teach me how to be a Christian... try again, my friend.

 

[TashaN]

Anything is possible. The Moslem religion is so close to Christian ideals as to be almost indistinguishable. The one thing I would give to Islamic which we have lost is their refusal to have any worship of anything except God (Allah). Whereas we get very close to worshipping Jesus as an entity himself, and some religions also virtually worship Mary and Joseph and many saints. Most churches also have many statues and pictures, which strictly speaking have always been forbidden.

So maybe you should not be quite so dismissive of your idea.(no I am not Moslem)

Merlin, Jesus told his diciples to keep the 10 commandments and the first one was to not worship others with God.

can you check please this website: http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm