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Ho Chi Minh

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I have been reading about Ho Chi Minh both in Arabic and English sources, and a lot of the Arabic sources view him as a liberator and fighter against imperialism, while English ones are more mixed between condemnation and recognition of his role in uniting Vietnam as well as resisting French colonization and American invasion. There are also a lot of Vietnamese opinions online praising him as a national hero and others viewing him as a murderous tyrant.

Whether or not he was directly aware of the war crimes committed by forces fighting for North Vietnam also seems to be a controversial subject. Some sources say he wasn't directly involved or responsible for them, while others cite his actions and summary executions during Vietnam's land reforms as evidence that he was a murderous dictator.

What are your thoughts on Ho Chi Minh? If you can, please provide sources to back up statements about his actions or words. I can definitely see why many people in the third world and in developing countries would view him as an example of anti-imperialist struggle, but I also recognize that this wouldn't absolve him of any crimes he committed.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
After the American Civil War, nobody had to flee the country.
A half million ethnic Chinese had to escape by any means possible from Ho Chi Minh after he won.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
After the American Civil War, nobody had to flee the country.
A half million ethnic Chinese had to escape by any means possible from Ho Chi Minh after he won.

I've also read that he executed tens of thousands of people during the land reform. Certainly doesn't sound like a great person under whose rule one could live peacefully.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I've also read that he executed tens of thousands of people during the land reform. Certainly doesn't sound like a great person under whose rule one could live peacefully.
"Greatness" is about perspective.
Whether one's own people or the enemy
are massacred determines all. This is
why I don't call Ronald Reagan great,
even though many others do.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
"Greatness" is about perspective.
Whether one's own people or the enemy
are massacred determines all. This is
why I don't call Ronald Reagan great,
even though many others do.

To me, it makes no difference whose side the victims are from. A massacre is a massacre.

Of course, people are usually much more complicated and multifaceted than one or a few incidents could suggest. This is why seeking a holistic picture is most reasonable, in my opinion.
 
Whether or not he was directly aware of the war crimes committed by forces fighting for North Vietnam also seems to be a controversial subject. Some sources say he wasn't directly involved or responsible for them, while others cite his actions and summary executions during Vietnam's land reforms as evidence that he was a murderous dictator.

Given he was a Leninist, for decades a Soviet asset and was one of the few senior Comintern operatives who survived the Stalinist purges, it would be very generous to assume he was opposed to such measures.

He wanted to replace one oppressive colonial regime with another oppressive Soviet-style regime.

Whether that leaves him in credit is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Can read about Uncle Ho’s career as a Soviet operative here.

http://www.tonthatthien.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1990-Was-Ho-Chi-Minh-A-Nationalist.pdf

Author is a South Vietnamese exile, if that impacts your judgement.

Tôn Thất Thiện - Wikipedia
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Given he was a Leninist, for decades a Soviet asset and was one of the few senior Comintern operatives who survived the Stalinist purges, it would be very generous to assume he was opposed to such measures.

He wanted to replace one oppressive colonial regime with another oppressive Soviet-style regime.

Whether that leaves him in credit is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Can read about Uncle Ho’s career as a Soviet operative here.

http://www.tonthatthien.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1990-Was-Ho-Chi-Minh-A-Nationalist.pdf

Author is a South Vietnamese exile, if that impacts your judgement.

Tôn Thất Thiện - Wikipedia

Thanks a lot! I'll definitely check these out.

How credible do you reckon the historical account in the above PDF is, though? Generally, I feel some skepticism when reading about some individual or movement in an account written by an opponent or enemy. I'm not saying this one is untrustworthy; just that some way to corroborate it would be useful.
 
Thanks a lot! I'll definitely check these out.

How credible do you reckon the historical account in the above PDF is, though? Generally, I feel some skepticism when reading about some individual or movement in an account written by an opponent or enemy. I'm not saying this one is untrustworthy; just that some way to corroborate it would be useful.

The author was an academic, not just a political hack, but may have his biases like we all do.

Ho was a decades long Soviet operative, that is a fact.

Article is fact based, although the degree to which you accept the additional analysis of these is subjective.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
The author was an academic, not just a political hack.

Hi was a decades long Soviet operative, that is a fact.

Article is fact based, although the degree to which you accept the additional analysis of these is subjective.

I'll definitely check it out either way, but thanks for the reassurance. I've just been finding a lot of USSR apologetics as well as simplistic "communism bad, America good" analyses, so I've been practicing more prudence when picking sources.

(I know Ho Chi Minh was a Soviet operative; I was asking about the PDF as a whole rather than that specific fact.)
 
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