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Hmm... probably not good (Global warming)

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Nimos, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    Found this article on CNN (Link to the whole article in the bottom)

    The South Pole has been warming at more than three times the global average over the past 30 years, a new study has found. That could have huge implications for the melting of Antarctic ice sheets, marine life in the region and the rising of global sea levels.

    They found that between 1989 and 2018, the South Pole had warmed by about 1.8 degrees Celsius over the past 30 years at a rate of +0.6 °C per decade -- three times the global average.

    "It is wild. It is the most remote place on the planet. The significance is how extreme temperatures swing and shift over the Antarctic interior, and the mechanisms that drive them are linked 10,000 kilometers (6,200 miles) north of the continent on the tropical Pacific," Clem said.

    Hotter temperatures have been recorded at other parts of Antarctica in recent years and the warming has serious global consequences, especially for the millions of people living on the world's coasts who are vulnerable to sea level rise.
    Antarctica's ice sheet contains enough water to raise global sea levels by nearly 200 feet, according to the World Meteorological Organization.

    Ice loss in the region has also been accelerating at an alarming rate over the past few decades. In the past 22 years, one giant glacier in East Antarctica has retreated almost three miles.
    While the South Pole remains below freezing and is likely to stay that way, Clem said that the warming trend seen at the Pole is linked to what we're seeing on the coast and the Antarctic Peninsula.
    The warming "starts from the coast and works its way inland," Clem said.
    "As you move closer to the coast, where the warming is coming in, you'll start to see more impacts. As you reach that point near the freezing point you start to get melting. Or you melt the sea ice and you start to warm the ocean in the Weddell Sea and that affects life in that area," he said.

    "Almost anywhere else on Earth, if you had 1.8C of warming over 30 years this would be off the charts." Clem said.
    But the result was not 100%. So there is a chance that warming at the South Pole could have occurred through natural processes only, according to Clem -- but it's a tiny one.


    The South Pole has been warming three times the global average over the past 30 years, study says - CNN

    If this is true, which I see no reason for why it shouldn't be, then 30 years is not a long time. I doubt that humans doing things the way we do, and being so slow at changing our ways, are close to being too late. We will need the next 50 years having to discuss what to do, who to blame, before we see any significant changes to how we do things. I doubt the ice is going to wait for that. :(
     
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  2. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I've seen the documentary.....an Inconvenient Truth

    and...….
    since the beginning of weather satellites we have been recording the temperature of the globe

    seems what used to be relatively cool and forested areas
    are becoming hotter and not so green

    and my wife tells me Siberia has felt temps over 100 in recent days

    and Man's involvement has fallen away to denial
     
  3. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    the Sahara has been getting bigger.....one mile per year

    it swallowed a nearby village...….whole
     
  4. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    So, I guess it's just a matter of time before we'll all be living in Waterworld. That was a horrible movie, but I guess it's as fitting an end as anything.

    It seems like it would be a "cleaner" end than a nuclear war or a zombie apocalypse.
     
  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    It is quite an eye-opener whenever you open up Google Earth and those images are typically a couple years old before they're updated. It kind of reminds me of the dust bowl in the Midwest and no doubt we have our own version of the Sahara.
     
  6. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    I think you're being overly optimistic.

    How would a water world ecology support conditions suitable for the survival of mammals?
     
  7. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I suppose whales and dolphins will be the way to go should such a scenario ever happen. Makes me wonder how humans will look in the far future if we will get our webbing back and adapt back into a water world.
     
  8. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    The oceans are already polluted. Wouldn't inundating cities and settled areas release unsurvivable levels of pollution?
    How would the ocean life that relies on coastal mangrove swamps as nurseries survive without the mangroves?
    How would mollusks survive the CO2 caused acidification of the oceans?
    How would the ocean ecology survive the eradication of mollusks, corals and other interdependent life forms?
    How would humans and other animals breathe without the rainforest supplied atmospheric oxygen? How would the remaining phytoplanktonic O2 suppliers survive a hot, acidic ocean?

    Water World?! -- You cannot just change one thing in ecology. The tightly woven, interdependent life-web that supports our biosphere makes a Swiss watch look simple. You cannot remove or alter parts willy-nilly and expect things to continue functioning.
     
  9. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    As has been the case many times before, I would imagine that what would arise is just a new "functioning." New life forms arising as adaptations are made and evolution is carried out. The end of everything you listed isn't the end of "life." Humans may perish... but then there's nothing that says we must exist in the first place.

    This isn't an excusing of whatever hand we may have had in getting here. It's just noting that regardless how "Swiss watch" our current setup is, it is no more or less so than any other ecological setup that has come and gone. Only when life is completely unsustainable in any way, shape or form will there not be some version of life here on Earth - and I think it is actually somewhat naive to believe we even have the power to grind it all to a halt. Even in that sentiment is rooted the idea that humans are the alpha. We aren't. We're nothing even remotely close to such a thing.
     
    #9 A Vestigial Mote, Jun 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  10. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    I agree. My point is that human life as usual, but on a water world, is an unrealistic expectation.
     
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  11. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    :rolleyes:
    No Waterworld (and yes, it was a bad movie -Mad Max on jet-skis).
    There isn’t enough ice on the planet. The projection would be a roughly 216+ foot (almost 70 meter) sea-rise. Since many of our biggest cities are founded on maritime trade, they would go under.
    Here...
     
  12. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    Even just a couple of metres of rising waterline will still compromise the majority of human urban living spaces, as some of the largest and most economically important cities on Earth are on the coast.

    It's no wonder right-wing conservatives don't care about this, as they are largely found in inland rural spaces.

    I mean, let's face it, what are a few dozens to hundreds of millions of deaths at some point in the future, when we can get to watch some numbers go up?
     
  13. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    actually.....we do
    spotted commentary that pointed out
    all of the oxygen generated by the rainforest.....stays there

    the prevailing wind takes it to a nearby mountain range
    and the chemistry can't make it over the top

    but then again.....not sure if I buy all that
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    have you seen the movie with Kevin Costner in the lead role?

    box office flop
    hyper expensive to shoot

    but the notion of soil becoming more valuable than all else...…..priceless
     
  15. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I didn't say that it would, just that it would be cleaner.
     
  16. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Dennis Hopper was the bright spot of an otherwise dismal movie.
     
  17. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    60 Minutes last Sunday had a segment regarding a river that flows from Tiajuana into the US and then into the Pacific. It is loaded with pollutants, toxins, and garbage of all kinds.

    Where it flows into the Pacific is very close to a Navy Seals training site. A site that the Navy is expanding.

    Full video...

     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
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    On the other hand.....
    On Behalf Of Environmentalists, I Apologize For The Climate Scare — Environmental Progress
    Excerpted.....
    On behalf of environmentalists everywhere, I would like to formally apologize for the climate scare we created over the last 30 years. Climate change is happening. It’s just not the end of the world. It’s not even our most serious environmental problem.

    I may seem like a strange person to be saying all of this. I have been a climate activist for 20 years and an environmentalist for 30.

    But as an energy expert asked by Congress to provide objective expert testimony, and invited by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to serve as Expert Reviewer of its next Assessment Report, I feel an obligation to apologize for how badly we environmentalists have misled the public.

    Here are some facts few people know:

    • Humans are not causing a “sixth mass extinction”

    • The Amazon is not “the lungs of the world”

    • Climate change is not making natural disasters worse

    • Fires have declined 25% around the world since 2003

    • The amount of land we use for meat — humankind’s biggest use of land — has declined by an area nearly as large as Alaska

    • The build-up of wood fuel and more houses near forests, not climate change, explain why there are more, and more dangerous, fires in Australia and California

    • Carbon emissions are declining in most rich nations and have been declining in Britain, Germany, and France since the mid-1970s

    • Netherlands became rich not poor while adapting to life below sea level

    • We produce 25% more food than we need and food surpluses will continue to rise as the world gets hotter

    • Habitat loss and the direct killing of wild animals are bigger threats to species than climate change

    • Wood fuel is far worse for people and wildlife than fossil fuels

    • Preventing future pandemics requires more not less “industrial” agriculture
    I know that the above facts will sound like “climate denialism” to many people. But that just shows the power of climate alarmism.

    In reality, the above facts come from the best-available scientific studies, including those conducted by or accepted by the IPCC, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN) and other leading scientific bodies.

    Some people will, when they read this imagine that I’m some right-wing anti-environmentalist. I’m not. At 17, I lived in Nicaragua to show solidarity with the Sandinista socialist revolution. At 23 I raised money for Guatemalan women’s cooperatives. In my early 20s I lived in the semi-Amazon doing research with small farmers fighting land invasions. At 26 I helped expose poor conditions at Nike factories in Asia.

    I became an environmentalist at 16 when I threw a fundraiser for Rainforest Action Network. At 27 I helped save the last unprotected ancient redwoods in California. In my 30s I advocated renewables and successfully helped persuade the Obama administration to invest $90 billion into them. Over the last few years I helped save enough nuclear plants from being replaced by fossil fuels to prevent a sharp increase in emissions

    But until last year, I mostly avoided speaking out against the climate scare. Partly that’s because I was embarrassed. After all, I am as guilty of alarmism as any other environmentalist. For years, I referred to climate change as an “existential” threat to human civilization, and called it a “crisis.”

    But mostly I was scared. I remained quiet about the climate disinformation campaign because I was afraid of losing friends and funding. The few times I summoned the courage to defend climate science from those who misrepresent it I suffered harsh consequences. And so I mostly stood by and did next to nothing as my fellow environmentalists terrified the public.

    I even stood by as people in the White House and many in the news media tried to destroy the reputation and career of an outstanding scientist, good man, and friend of mine, Roger Pielke, Jr., a lifelong progressive Democrat and environmentalist who testified in favor of carbon regulations. Why did they do that? Because his research proves natural disasters aren’t getting worse.

    But then, last year, things spiraled out of control.

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said “The world is going to end in twelve years if we don’t address climate change.” Britain’s most high-profile environmental group claimed “Climate Change Kills Children.”
     
  19. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Many right-wing conservative deniers are also Fundamentalist Christians. Some of them see any disasters as just another sign of the EndOfTimes which they look forward to.
     
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    only this one I believe
     
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