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Hindus: Why do the Hare Krishnas say atheists are envious of God?

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Namaste,

(I was unsure whether to put this under "Hinduism" or "atheism", I opted for "Hinduism". Input from Hindu atheists is appreciated :D:D:D)

I've been attending Hare Krishna meetings for about 3 years now. Time and again (heard it for last time yesterday ) they state that atheists and others who refuse to surrender to Krishna are just "envious of Krishna". Is this idea also present in other traditions of Hinduism? I have trouble comprehending the thought. It rather reminds me of two children A and B on a playground, quarreling about a toy. A says, "I got this new toy" and B says he doesn't like it so A replies: "You're just jealous that I have this fancy new toy and you haven't."

Thanks for your replies.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Namaste,

(I was unsure whether to put this under "Hinduism" or "atheism", I opted for "Hinduism". Input from Hindu atheists is appreciated :D:D:D)

I've been attending Hare Krishna meetings for about 3 years now. Time and again (heard it for last time yesterday ) they state that atheists and others who refuse to surrender to Krishna are just "envious of Krishna". Is this idea also present in other traditions of Hinduism? I have trouble comprehending the thought. It rather reminds me of two children A and B on a playground, quarreling about a toy. A says, "I got this new toy" and B says he doesn't like it so A replies: "You're just jealous that I have this fancy new toy and you haven't."

Thanks for your replies.
I agree that statement makes little sense. And I would also hope they are not focusing on superficial differences between the various names of God like Krishna, Ram, Jesus, etc.. And also they are following the Bhakti (devotional) path which is a very good thing but there are also other good paths that people can follow too.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Input from Hindu atheists is appreciated :D:D:D)

Time and again (heard it for last time yesterday ) they state that atheists and others who refuse to surrender to Krishna are just "envious of Krishna".
Atheist Hindu here (at your command). I am not envious of Krishna. I love him too dearly. He is my friend. He is always with me. He likes my company. The Hare-Krishna's do not know this.I have 'sakha-bhava' for him.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Namaste,

(I was unsure whether to put this under "Hinduism" or "atheism", I opted for "Hinduism". Input from Hindu atheists is appreciated :D:D:D)

I've been attending Hare Krishna meetings for about 3 years now. Time and again (heard it for last time yesterday ) they state that atheists and others who refuse to surrender to Krishna are just "envious of Krishna". Is this idea also present in other traditions of Hinduism? I have trouble comprehending the thought. It rather reminds me of two children A and B on a playground, quarreling about a toy. A says, "I got this new toy" and B says he doesn't like it so A replies: "You're just jealous that I have this fancy new toy and you haven't."

Thanks for your replies.


ISKCON has a unique take on quite a few things. I would think most atheists are more indifferent about God than anything else, more or less by definition. I don't see how one could be envious of something you don't believe in.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't get that argument at all. It seems a tad insecure to me. Like they can't stand the fact that people disagree with them. Although I see it crop up more often in radical Christian sects than I do in Hindu sects. Maybe more radical Hindus agree with such a sentiment, I don't know.
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
What I think is being talked about here is the materialistic/atheistic mentality. When one considers in ones mind a conception of a God and one is at the time swollen with pride, one may become envious of God, and not surrender to Him. This is because of the envy emerging out of pride.

Usually the atheistic demons like Kansa, and Raavan had this envious mentality. Hirankashyap was envious of Lord Narayana and this lead him to refuse the Lords authority and declare himself myself equal.

I don't think envy is even the correct word. The Sanskrit work it comes from is dvesha, which can also be translated to "hate" or "scorn"

See, dvesha or scorn/hate/envy is what leads a soul to be independent of God, and this independence of God and refusal to accept Him is referred to as atheism. I think atheism here means that despite knowing a God exists, one refuses to surrender to Him. Obviously if you don't believe God exists, then you cannot envy Him.

Jaya Nitaai!
 

Mani Bandha

New Member
Hi Sirona. Very good question. Best person to answer this is Krishna Himself. Below are two of His quotes from Bhagavad Gita As It Is.

Chapter 16: The Divine and Demoniac Natures

TEXT 19
tan aham dvisatah kruran
samsaresu naradhaman
ksipamy ajasram asubhan
asurisv eva yonisu
Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.
PURPORT
In this verse it is clearly indicated that the placing of a particular individual soul in a particular body is the prerogative of the supreme will. The demoniac person may not agree to accept the supremacy of the Lord, and it is a fact that he may act according to his own whims, but his next birth will depend upon the decision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not on himself. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Third Canto, it is stated that an individual soul, after his death, is put into the womb of a mother where he gets a particular type of body under the supervision of superior power. Therefore in the material existence we find so many species of life-animals, insects, men, and so on. All are arranged by the superior power. They are not accidental. As for the demoniac, it is clearly said here that they are perpetually put into the wombs of demons, and thus they continue to be envious, the lowest of mankind. Such demoniac species of life are held to be always full of lust, always violent and hateful and always unclean. They are just like so many beasts in a jungle.

Bg 18.67
idaṁ te nātapaskāya
nābhaktāya kadācana
na cāśuśrūṣave vācyaṁ
na ca māṁ yo ’bhyasūyati


This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.
Purport:
Persons who have not undergone the austerities of the religious process, who have never attempted devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, who have not tended a pure devotee, and especially those who are conscious of Kṛṣṇa only as a historical personality or who are envious of the greatness of Kṛṣṇa should not be told this most confidential part of knowledge. It is, however, sometimes found that even demoniac persons who are envious of Kṛṣṇa, worshiping Kṛṣṇa in a different way, take to the profession of explaining Bhagavad-gītā in a different way to make business, but anyone who desires actually to understand Kṛṣṇa must avoid such commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā. Actually the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is not understandable to those who are sensuous. Even if one is not sensuous but is strictly following the disciplines enjoined in the Vedic scripture, if he is not a devotee he also cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. And even when one poses himself as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa but is not engaged in Kṛṣṇa conscious activities, he also cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. There are many persons who envy Kṛṣṇa because He has explained in Bhagavad-gītā that He is the Supreme and that nothing is above Him or equal to Him. There are many persons who are envious of Kṛṣṇa. Such persons should not be told of Bhagavad-gītā, for they cannot understand. There is no possibility of faithless persons’ understanding Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. Without understanding Kṛṣṇa from the authority of a pure devotee, one should not try to comment upon Bhagavad-gītā.
 
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