Hindus: Religious or Spiritual?

[Kalidas]

So I have gotten into this little debate with a friend of mine on facebook. He is an Atheist and is of the opinion that essentially any and all religion is bad

This was the start of said debate

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd....0-9/1689477_10152206510030155_697025218_n.jpg

Now I don't think NO religions teach these horrendous ideas (I think we all know so lets not point fingers okay ) So my issue was the word "Religion" is did not specify any Religion, just "Religion" as whole.

I obviously can never let things like this go, and stated that beliefs to not hold any of those thoughts and ideas.

Someone said it is because I'm "spiritual" not "Religious", but I feel that I am "Religious" or maybe a bit of both. Let them know that I do adhere to a Religion and that said Religion does not hold those ideas to be true.

Well the debate has kind of gone on a little past the original topic and another friend is essentially claiming all religions use indoctrination and that I have been indoctrinated. Blah Blah Blah same old same old "I'm an Atheist me smart, you believe in God you dumb."

So the question is this though. Are we Hindus a group that leans to the spiritual side, Religious side, or maybe both?

 

[Poeticus]

Kalidas,

How many times must it be stressed
that you are working with different
paradigms ?

The "according to religion" portion on
the left side of the chart abides by
non-Dharmic theologies. It does not
abide by the Dharmic theologies and
views of thought (both astika and
nastika). In fact, it is easier to argue
that the right side of the chart is
very much in line with the Dharmic
schools of thought (both astika and
nastika).

These things must be looked at in
context of socio-cultural setting(s).​

 

[Kalidas]

Kalidas,

How many times must it be stressed
that you are working with different
paradigms ?

The "according to religion" portion on
the left side of the chart abides by
non-Dharmic theologies. It does not
abide by the Dharmic theologies and
views of thought (both astika and
nastika). In fact, it is easier to argue
that the right side of the chart is
very much in line with the Dharmic
schools of thought (both astika and
nastika).

These things must be looked at in
context of socio-cultural setting(s).​

I'm sorry for angering you

I know we work on different paradigms, that is what I was trying to explain to people. Not all "Religions" are the same. I even said that yes the right side is far closer to what I believe about humans than the left.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

......​

Why can't I frubal you bro ;___; they won't let me frubal youuu....
So here is a human cat in front of an half empty plate giving you thumbs up.

So yeah, you know that, if Hinduism (or any Dharmic religion actually) was really on the left side, then I think I would have already hanged myself long time ago. The aim is to realize our self, merge with Brahman or have Darshan of Ishta dev and there is million of goals that lead finally to moksha, but in the end our religion is always supporting and a mean to discover our potentialities instead of putting us down.

Is Hinduism religious or spiritual ? Woah dude, just have a look at aaaaall the forms of Hinduism that exist ! It's both and so much more.

 

[Poeticus]

I'm sorry for angering you

I know we work on different paradigms, that is what I was trying to explain to people. Not all "Religions" are the same. I even said that yes the right side is far closer to what I believe about humans than the left.

Kalidas,

Nah, brah. You didn't anger me.
Far from it. I wrote in a manner
in which you could have relayed
it to your friend.​

For example,

" Dear Kalidas' Friend, how many
times must it be stressed that
you are working with different
paradigms ? "​

 

[Kalidas]

Kalidas,

Nah, brah. You didn't anger me.
Far from it. I wrote in a manner
in which you could have relayed
it to your friend.​

For example,

" Dear Kalidas' Friend, how many
times must it be stressed that
you are working with different
paradigms ? "​

Makes sense

 

[Makaranda]

Absolutely both.

 

[Vinayaka]

So the question is this though. Are we Hindus a group that leans to the spiritual side, Religious side, or maybe both?

I did not vote, mostly because I don't think about it much. Just get on with life. When you think about such things too much and argue and debate them, than it's neither spiritual nor religious, but just an exercise of the intellectual mind. Perhaps a pointless one at that. I'd just let a friend go, let him analyse the stuffing out of it if he wants, but I have bette rthings to do like seva or a puja.

But I also agree with Poeticus. The terms mean something vastly different to the two sides.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Yes, the chart is far too general even if we were only talking about the western conception of religion. I think it's too easy and kind of a cop-out to divi it up that way.

I voted 'other' because to me it's both. It would be difficult (and to me undesirable) to have one without the other.

:camp:

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=Kalidas;3772470]

IMO, Hindus are non-religious generally, specifically those that feel that if Brahman/Shiv/Vishnu/Indra/Kali are all within our Atman, or pervade everything, then the need to reach out to Ishvar is not there as the supreme Mata is already within us, and there is no infinite separation between the Atman and the Paramatma. The only difference between the Atman and Paramatma is Avidya/Maya which through Yoga/Karma/Dharmah can be removed. Hindus are non-religious generally as the belief of prophets and messengers of "GOD" are not part of Hinduism, the experience of the Rishi/Swami/yogi is available to all indiscriminately. Hindus are non-religious generally because there is never a second to Brahman nor is the Human or non Human Atman "Evil", or "sinful" in its essence, the Atman is eternal in its attribute and does not need a separate "GOD" to "Save" it from a eternal/non-eternal "Hell". Hindus are non-religious generally as the belief that there are no "Chosen", people of "GOD", who will have special privileges bestowed on them. Hindus are Non-religious generally as there are no social commands from a "GOD", who is interested in the daily life of the practitioner, nor is there forbidding or allowance of daily actions, the Idea and practice of Dharmah covers the broad and individual lifestyle and Dharmah was not made by a "GOD", but is regarded as eternal. Hindus are non-religious generally because praying and the modes of worship does not have restrictions and limitations, freedom of practice and worship as long as it is in line with Dharmah is the Hindu way.

Anyways, that is my view.

 

[StarryNightshade]

I voted other, because in addition to being "both" (depending on which tradition one follows), I think it can also primarily be a philosophy.

With me for example, I follow Dharma as both a spiritual path and a philosophy. A "spiritual philosophy", if you will. I don't really consider it so much a "religion", in the strictest sense, because Hinduism is generally so open and flexible to one's needs.

 

[Vinayaka]

I asked my atheist brother to tell me a few things about my religion, but he couldn't. So there is no point really. It might help to give your friend some small pamphlet that summarises Hindu belief. Just maybe, if you're lucky, he might read it.

The odd thing, from my POV is that some atheists and some Hindus have far more in common than atheists or us and Abrahamics. But you just can't get them beyond that narrow definition of religion.

When you ask, "What religion are you?" in that field of life, it essentially means, "What sect of Christianity do you practise?"

Kalidas, I do share your frustration, but I have no idea how to bring someone beyond that narrow mindset of what religion is. Heck, I've had discussions on this forum where the same thing occurred.

 

[Maya3]

I voted other too, but I guess it´s both. If you mean religious in the way that you have a practice and go to temple or an Ashram and practice with others, then I guess yes you could be called religious.
But otherwise I think it´s more spiritual.

I have an atheist brother in law, and right now he is debating religion with his sister who is a hard line Christian and VERY conservative, and I agree a lot more with my brother my sister in law.

Maya

 

[Madhuri]

I voted 'other' because I think Hindus are both. But I think that spirituality is superior and that our religious activities are meant to lead to a spiritual consciousness. I think that religion plays an important role for us but ultimately we want to reach complete spirituality.

This reminds me of what Krishna says in the Gita: abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto him.

 

[Poeticus]

I believe .... we are forgetting that
spiritual and religious dichotomies do
not apply to Dharmic schools/systems
of thought.

Various pramana-s have already been
established:

• aitihasika (pertaining to the tradition)
• adhiyajna (pertaining to the sacrifices)
• adhyatmika (pertaining to the spirit)

 

[Aupmanyav]

One can be religious without being spiritual. One can also be spiritual without being religious. And you can find both types of people in Hinduism.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Kaildas ji

This was the start of said debate

Now I don't think NO religions teach these horrendous ideas (I think we all know so lets not point fingers okay ) So my issue was the word "Religion" is did not specify any Religion, just "Religion" as whole.


Well the debate has kind of gone on a little past the original topic and another friend is essentially claiming all religions use indoctrination and that I have been indoctrinated. Blah Blah Blah same old same old "I'm an Atheist me smart, you believe in God you dumb."

if any atheist thinks religion is indoctrination , .....then what is this !

this picture is pure indoctrination , here it is the indoctrination of biggoted atheism .

it is sick and it is dangerous ....

what do I think is damaging ? ....putting this in a childs hands !

So the question is this though. Are we Hindus a group that leans to the spiritual side, Religious side, or maybe both?

as Hindus we are both religious and spiritual , religion is purely the assiduous practice of purification , and spiritual in that the goal is to rise above bodily consciousness ,
to rise above '' I am '' , .....any science that clings to the bodily concept of I am is incredibly limited , ....true science goes beyond this stupidity .

infact within Hinduism is the supreme science ...the exploration of our true nature .

 

[Maya3]

namaskaram Kaildas ji





if any atheist thinks religion is indoctrination , .....then what is this !

this picture is pure indoctrination , here it is the indoctrination of biggoted atheism .

it is sick and it is dangerous ....

what do I think is damaging ? ....putting this in a childs hands !



as Hindus we are both religious and spiritual , religion is purely the assiduous practice of purification , and spiritual in that the goal is to rise above bodily consciousness ,
to rise above '' I am '' , .....any science that clings to the bodily concept of I am is incredibly limited , ....true science goes beyond this stupidity .

infact within Hinduism is the supreme science ...the exploration of our true nature .

I don´t think this is the intent of the picture, I also think we are living during a time in the US where a lot of people are against science, specifically evolution. There are many who are working very hard to get to teach Christian Theology in Science class.

Now I do wish that the photo specified SOME religious thought, not religions as such. I don´t think Hinduism contradicts any of the words on the right side of her sign.

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

Indeed Maya, I never noticed that:

According to Hinduism, I am
- full of wonder
- smart
- a great learner
- beautiful
- potential for greatness

1) Hindus are awestruck. We go to magnificent temples, wonder at their beauty, are amazed at the character change in ourselves and other, and generally appreciate the small and big things in life
2) Not sure about me, but I sure know a lot of smart Hindus.
3) Being a lifetime learner is part of the path we are on.
4) Inherent within our belief system is that each individual contains a spark of the divine, so we're all beautiful
5) Each and every soul on this planet,and elsewhere between births is destined for nirvikalpa samadhi and consequently moksha. What greater potential is there?

 

[Aupmanyav]

^^^ This.
For both, Maya and Vinayaka.