Provide credible sources for that statement. Or say it's your opinion.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
{Hindus only} Getting over religious conditioning.
- Thread starter StarryNightshade
- Start date
Provide credible sources for that statement. Or say it's your opinion.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
I am a Biologist who has a first degree in Pharmacology in which I did a special study of neuroendocrinology and courtship rituals.
Insufficient.
I am a gay man who has first-hand knowledge of what being gay is, and is not. Top that.
Please everyone, no debating. I will say this one last thing before cease contributing to this particular conversation.
Very much a theist.
This is not much different than "God made 'Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve'" that I heard often growing up.
Yes, male and female make children, but it's not the only sexual expression that exists in the world. Homosexuality exists in nature and we are a part of nature.
And yes, procreation is neither here nor there, because it shouldn't be central to ones argument when one realizes that our world is seriously becoming over populated. If one realizes that straight people shouldn't breed like rabbits, and if one accepts that LGBT could be a natural way of population control, then saying "homosexual aren't natural because they can't make children" is moot.
No it's not. Some peope might be able to be celibate, but I'm certainly not one of them.
Again, I'm not going to be celibate. I did that for a year and it was hell.
Again, I'm not an atheist. When I say that I've been having doubts, it's not abut God's existence, but about where I fit in a Hindu framework.
I am certainly free to be a homosexual and spiritual. Or hell, even be gay and religious. Ones conscience should be paramount when dealing with spiritual matters, and mine says that if I'm in a long term, loving relationship, then it's not against God. Cultural/religious conditioning sometimes creeping back into my mind, notwithstanding.
This is the only thing you've said that I agree with. It's a shame that they are and hopefully one day they will be full members of Indian society.
Very much a theist.
This is not much different than "God made 'Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve'" that I heard often growing up.
Yes, male and female make children, but it's not the only sexual expression that exists in the world. Homosexuality exists in nature and we are a part of nature.
And yes, procreation is neither here nor there, because it shouldn't be central to ones argument when one realizes that our world is seriously becoming over populated. If one realizes that straight people shouldn't breed like rabbits, and if one accepts that LGBT could be a natural way of population control, then saying "homosexual aren't natural because they can't make children" is moot.
No it's not. Some peope might be able to be celibate, but I'm certainly not one of them.
Again, I'm not going to be celibate. I did that for a year and it was hell.
Again, I'm not an atheist. When I say that I've been having doubts, it's not abut God's existence, but about where I fit in a Hindu framework.
I am certainly free to be a homosexual and spiritual. Or hell, even be gay and religious. Ones conscience should be paramount when dealing with spiritual matters, and mine says that if I'm in a long term, loving relationship, then it's not against God. Cultural/religious conditioning sometimes creeping back into my mind, notwithstanding.
This is the only thing you've said that I agree with. It's a shame that they are and hopefully one day they will be full members of Indian society.
That's an op-ed,a blog piece. Still not good enough to make your case, sorry.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...n-homosexuality-stopped-being-mental-disorder
http://psc.dss.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_mental_health.HTML
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7457641
Full search https://www.google.com/#q=DSM+homosexuality
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is a nice nick. May it last long. Reminds me of Indra's Vajra and Bjorn Borg.Thorbjornji (while it lasts, that name) ..
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Many men are homosexuals because they are impotent and so attribute this to not feeling aroused by the sight of women.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
What Hindu framework?. There is no such thing upholding the idea of Hinduism. We are a diverse bunch of people free to go our own ways individually. We are not guided by doctrines like those belonging to Abrahamic religions. Some of us find God others do not and worship odds and ends.
Whether I am Smarta, Vaishnava, Shakta, Saiva, etc. At this point, I feel drawn towards Maa Lakshmi.
Yes, we are diverse. In many respects it's both a blessing and a curse.
Except certain lineages, schools, and samparadayas are guided by doctrines. It's too generalizing to say that "Hindus are dogma free" or "Hindus don't follow doctrines like other religions". It goes back to the diversity thing: some parts of Hinduism are highly structured and centralized; others not so much.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Lakshmi is the goddess of wealth: so you want wealth from your mother by worshipping her. What more do you know about Lakshmi?
Fireside_Hindu
Jai Lakshmi Maa
And she's pretty jazzed about you too. =)
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Not a curse in any way; the variety, the freedom is the beauty of Hinduism.
She's also the presiding deity of the Sri Kula sect of Shakta worship. Lakshmi Mata ji is not hemmed in by her general title of Goddess of Material Wealth. We worship Lakshmi Mata ji for spiritual wealth as well; meaning that it to Her that we should turn when we are desiring of progressing in our spiritual practices as it is She who says yay or nay. She too is far more merciful than her spouse and while She can be hard to court, She is a mother first and will always answer the cries of us, Her children.
Fireside_Hindu
Jai Lakshmi Maa
With her hand out-stretched and spilling infinite gold coins she also asks her children to be generous and forthcoming with whatever wealth (material, spiritual) that she gives us. Wealth has the greatest positive impact if it is shared. She is sometimes accompanied by her owl - a symbol of fearlessness in the face of darkness as well as comfort in the dark. She works best in the dark - meaning she overcomes darkness easily so we can come to her in our darkest hour.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Aup, do you know of any Hindu god or goddess who are gay and whom gay people should therefore follow and worship? Perhaps there is a sect or sampradaya catering for gay people in India who can still be called Hindus. As far as I am aware Christianity and Islam do not like gayness so that only leaves Buddhism for @StarryNightshade to follow. What does Jainism say about it? We must try and help him overcome his problem of finding who to follow within the Hindu framework. Please note that this may help other gay people find a religion if they believe themselves to be theists. Personally I find gayness incompatible with theism, and have asked the view of noted gay rights leader Peter Tatchell on Twitter as follows:
Shantanu Panigrahi @ShanPanigrahi 30s31 seconds ago
@PeterTatchell Peter, do you have a view on whether gayness is incompatible with theism because procreation fulfils God's creational wishes?
Last edited:
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
You talk about the spouse of Lakshmi: would that be Vishnu who I believed had Lakshmi as his consort?
It is in fact Lakshmi who chose to take Visnu as Her spouse as he was the only one that She found worthy.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
So Lakshmi is the power (Shakti) and Vishnu just a rajasic god without any power to do anything for the devotees. But did they have any children?
Well, I'm sorry, but what you think is compatible or not with religion or theism is irrelevant.
There are plenty of LGBT HIndus who are devout and faithful.
There are plenty of religious leaders (famous and not well known) who don't condemn LGBT.
I am a theist, as I believe there is a God which created us and sustains us. There is no reason for me to believe that being gay somehow makes me incompatible with believing that.