Hinduism and Christianity

[SomeRandom]

Interfaith discussions are challenging and usually involve stepping outside our comfort zones. Perhaps the most important attribute is humility and a willingness to learn. This thread for me is a reflection on the history of India and the experiences of colonisation through the British Empire and beyond. An important theme is what constitutes intergrity or corruption in practice of Faith.
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Not even that, I just don't care enough about religious discourse. Now artsy crap I can get behind.
Colonialism is something of a minefield. Whatever approach the early Christians took wasn't exactly ethical. But it's easier to forgive if it occurs during like the 1800s or something. That's just how people were back then.
If people try underhanded tactics today, there's a sense of "you should know better."
So in order to protect myself from unnecessary anger I tend to stay away from international inter religious politics.
Wake me up when they've finished squabbling.

We all need role models to look up to. People we trust and embody at least in part where we are heading in life. I have those in my Faith. How about for you in Hinduism?

No one in particular. I just sort of do my own thing. The consequence of the Dharmic approach is essentially a prevelant attitude of "I'll figure this out for myself."

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not even that, I just don't care enough about religious discourse. Now artsy crap I can get behind.
Colonialism is something of a minefield. Whatever approach the early Christians took wasn't exactly ethical. But it's easier to forgive if it occurs during like the 1800s or something. That's just how people were back then.
If people try underhanded tactics today, there's a sense of "you should know better."
So in order to protect myself from unnecessary anger I tend to stay away from international inter religious politics.
Wake me up when they've finished squabbling.

The world's a pretty messed up place. My new neighbours have just hit party mode going into the new year. I may have to try some conflict resolution skills or sleep in another quieter room.

No one in particular. I just sort of do my own thing. The consequence of the Dharmic approach is essentially a prevelant attitude of "I'll figure this out for myself."

All the best with that. It certainly helps to have a plan in life.

 

[SomeRandom]

The world's a pretty messed up place. My new neighbours have just hit party mode going into the new year. I may have to try some conflict resolution skills or sleep in another quieter room.
.

Or you could join them? Merriment making is very healthy, IMO

All the best with that. It certainly helps to have a plan in life.

Plan?

 

[Vinayaka]

To be honest, I would be asking why Hindu communities were and still are lagging so far behind when it comes to socioeconomic development. I would also convert to either Christianity or Hinduism in the blink of an eye if one offered education and the other didn't. Then again, they are both valid spiritual paths to me.

That's an easy one. Estimates of the stolen wealth during the Raj, and others are in the trillions of dollars. Any place that has had a couple of centuries of that level of economic exploitation suffers, and still does. You'd live in a shanty as well if people kept stealing all your stuff, and the law was on the thief's side.

 

[Vinayaka]

Honestly the only religious group that has a track record of actually following the tenants of their religion are probably Jains and Baha'is. I mean at least they have the fewest publicised scandals. Which is something.

You obviously haven't googled 'Baha'i scandals' have you?

 

[ajay0]

Thanks for that. I have been reflecting on what universalism is and what it isn't and why it is so important.

Universalism is a theological and philosophical concept that some ideas have universal application or applicability. A community that calls itself universalist may emphasize the universal principles of most religions, and accept others in an inclusive manner. It is centered on the belief in a universal reconciliation between humanity and the divine.

Universalism - Wikipedia

Over the last century or so the world has become a global village. The reality for most people is multiculturalism. We share the same earth and her resources. Our prosperity is increasingly linked to a world economy. Many of our workmates, colleagues, friends and even family members are now likely to be from different cultures. It is the same sun that illuminates the earth and we breath the same atmosphere. Whether we are talking about eternal Dharma, ultimate reality or the social principles that would best facilitate harmonious relationships in a multicultural world, there is an underlying unity.

Religion can promote universalism but also head in the opposite direction towards tribalism. An us and them mentality can arise, where the outsider is shunned, seen as threat, viewed with suspicion, and assigned negative characteristics. It can be subtle or overt.

The laws of gravity found by Newton works on every part of earth. It is of universal application.

So similarly is the laws of religion and spirituality.

Krishna, Jesus, Mansur Al Hallaj, all belonging to different religious cultures, but had the same enlightened nondualistic perception, and said the same thing.

Jesus's and Mansur's words were however misinterpreted as blasphemy, for which they were condemned by the blind and fanatical orthodoxy of those times, the Rabbis and Mullahs, to torture and death.

The intolerant orthodoxy that exists then can exist now as well to misjudge, misinterpret and misguide sincere seekers. The fraudsters are worse. In Hinduism fraudsters, pseudo-scholars and their stooges are a major problem.

All these guys are barriers to the universal truths which is sought by the sincere seeker.

 

[ajay0]

An interesting discussion on Jesus Christ and his teachings by the enlightened master Annamalai Swami....

Q: There is another biblical statement which is very popular among Christians: 'No man comes to the Father except through me. ‘ How does Swami understand this statement of Jesus?

Annamalai Swami: When Jesus said 'Except through me' he was speaking of the Self, not the body, but people have misunderstood this.
On another occasion, Jesus said, ‘The kingdom of heaven is within you’. He did not mean that it is within the body. This 'you’ Jesus spoke of is the Self, infinite consciousness.

Although a sage who has stabilized in the Self may use the word 'me’ we should not make the mistake of thinking that he is the body. Whenever the jnani, who has become one with the infinite, pure consciousness, says 'me’ he is speaking not of the body, the form, but of the one consciousness.

In the absolute, single, formless, immanent consciousness, where is Jesus or any other jnani? All is one in consciousness. It is impossible to differentiate between people there.

The one who realizes this state beyond the mind expresses the truth in his own way. Those who are seeking to understand this truth always try to understand the message through the misleading medium of words. They misinterpret with their minds and misunderstand what the teacher is really trying to say.

Many Christians take that phrase 'No man comes to the Father except through me' to mean through the form of Jesus Christ alone. Because of this interpretation, they condemn all other concepts of God and all other religions.

In essence all religions are one. Bhagavan once told me: ‘If the ego is destroyed by proper self-enquiry, and if the non-dual consciousness is realized, that alone is truth. Then, in that non-dual consciousness, where are all the different religions and different masters? All are one in that state.

Q: Does Swami understand Jesus Christ to be a jnani like so many other jnanis, or was he something more than that?

AS: If the ego is destroyed, only non-dual consciousness remains.

There is no higher or lower in that state. You cannot say that one jnani is in a different state from another. You cannot say that Jesus Christ is better than Bhagavan or vice versa. There is no higher state than that of the jnani and there is no jnani who is superior to any other jnani.

Although the inner state and experience of all jnanis is the same, their outer activities differ because each of them has a different destiny to fulfill.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's an easy one. Estimates of the stolen wealth during the Raj, and others are in the trillions of dollars. Any place that has had a couple of centuries of that level of economic exploitation suffers, and still does. You'd live in a shanty as well if people kept stealing all your stuff, and the law was on the thief's side.

While no one would deny the economic exploitation that went hand in hand with British Colonial rule after 71 years there appears to be other more significant and relevant factors.

1/ High levels of disparity between the wealthy and poor
2/ Marginalisation and exclusion of certain groups in Indian society
3/ Inequality and poor treatment of women and children
4/ High population growth
5/ Inadequate emphasis on health and education
6/ Corruption
7/ Low entrepreneurial and innovation capabilities
8/ An inadequate model for social and economic development

Is India still a developing country?

India as a less Developed Country

8 Reasons Why India Is so Poor

Many of the problems have a moral dimension and are not directly attributable to colonisation.

 

[Vinayaka]

While no one would deny the economic exploitation that went hand in hand with British Colonial rule after 71 years there appears to be other more significant and relevant factors.

1/ High levels of disparity between the wealthy and poor
2/ Marginalisation and exclusion of certain groups in Indian society
3/ Inequality and poor treatment of women and children
4/ High population growth
5/ Inadequate emphasis on health and education
6/ Corruption
7/ Low entrepreneurial and innovation capabilities
8/ An inadequate model for social and economic development

Is India still a developing country?

India as a less Developed Country

8 Reasons Why India Is so Poor

Many of the problems have a moral dimension and are not directly attributable to colonisation.

You forgot brain drain.

Have you ever been to India?

 

[ajay0]

India and China were the richest nations on earth in the 16th century as per Forbes.

Colonial invasions and exploitation reduced both to the poorest nations on earth, with China going the communist path.

At present, India is the fastest growing economy on earth, with China all set to replace the U.S. as the strongest economy in the world.

Yeah, India do have its economic and social issues, but it is important to realize that India still existing as an ancient civilization at this point of time is a statistical impossibility and anomaly,, considering that all other ancient civilizations have collapsed, especially the egyptian, persian, babylonian, sumerian and so on.

Paramahamsa Yogananda attributed the longevity of the ancient Indian civilization to the long line of enlightened masters which India has produced since ancient times.

India is also the only nation on earth to have an ocean named after it, in recognition of the commercial activity that took place in its waters and sea routes, and which lead to the discovery of America two centuries back.

India is the first country on earth to reach Mars in its first attempt (Mangalyaan),and it also played a role in discovering water on the moon in its Chandrayaan probe.

Mars Orbiter Mission - Wikipedia

Chandrayaan-1 - Wikipedia


All this shows that India as an ancient civilizatiion has successfully wedded itself with modern science and technology.

With the third largest number of scientists and engineers in the world, along with the majority of its 1 billion plus population under 35, I am sure India has the expertise and youth to plant itself as a modern state again within a short span of time.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah, India do have its economic and social issues, but it is important to realize that India still existing as an ancient civilization at this point of time is a statistical impossibility and anomaly
, considering that all other ancient civilizations have collapsed, especially the egyptian, persian, babylonian, sumerian and so on.

Modern Indian society isn't the same as the ancient civilizations that have existed on that land, so it's the same with them as it is for Babylon and Iraq. China can make the same claims for being ancient, so can Japan and a bunch of other countries. India isn't special in that sense.

 

[ajay0]

Modern Indian society isn't the same as the ancient civilizations that have existed on that land.

There is an unbroken line of many cultural traditions and practices still prevalent in India which was followed milleniums back.

Modern Indian society isn't the same as the ancient civilizations that have existed on that land. China can make the same claims for being ancient, so can Japan and a bunch of other countries. India isn't special in that sense.

China is communist and wiped out its ancient roots and culture in the cultural revolution by Mao which killed 25 million. If China can reclaim its ancient civilzational roots and ties with ancient India, we will only be happy about it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

China is communist and wiped out its ancient roots and culture in the cultural revolution by Mao which killed 25 million. If China can reclaim its ancient civilzational roots and ties with ancient India, we will only be happy about it.

I doubt that the cultural revolution went as far as they desired. Chinese culture seems to be doing fine.

 

[ajay0]

I doubt that the cultural revolution went as far as they desired. Chinese culture seems to be doing fine.

Well, the Shaolin temple was burned down during the cultural revolution, but it and its philosophy came in prominence again after a few films came up on it, by the likes of Bruce Lee and Jet Li.

Marxist philosophy is highly materialistic and have no place for religion and tradition in it.

 

[Dawnofhope]

India and China were the richest nations on earth in the 16th century as per Forbes.

Colonial invasions and exploitation reduced both to the poorest nations on earth, with China going the communist path.

At present, India is the fastest growing economy on earth, with China all set to replace the U.S. as the strongest economy in the world.

Yeah, India do have its economic and social issues, but it is important to realize that India still existing as an ancient civilization at this point of time is a statistical impossibility and anomaly,, considering that all other ancient civilizations have collapsed, especially the egyptian, persian, babylonian, sumerian and so on.

Paramahamsa Yogananda attributed the longevity of the ancient Indian civilization to the long line of enlightened masters which India has produced since ancient times.

India is also the only nation on earth to have an ocean named after it, in recognition of the commercial activity that took place in its waters and sea routes, and which lead to the discovery of America two centuries back.

India is the first country on earth to reach Mars in its first attempt (Mangalyaan),and it also played a role in discovering water on the moon in its Chandrayaan probe.

Mars Orbiter Mission - Wikipedia

Chandrayaan-1 - Wikipedia


All this shows that India as an ancient civilizatiion has successfully wedded itself with modern science and technology.

With the third largest number of scientists and engineers in the world, along with the majority of its 1 billion plus population under 35, I am sure India has the expertise and youth to plant itself as a modern state again within a short span of time.

With increasingly reliance on communications and connectivity the decision to focus on technologies that enable satellite placement appears a smart move and a good example of the innovation and entrepreneurialism India needs to develop its economy. Obviously the programme has its critics.

I'm optimistic that India will continue to develop rapidly and its future looks bright.

I'm not too sure what you mean by India continuing to exist as an ancient civilisation. I imagine there is much of value in your heritage but a lot needs to change as I outlined in my previous post.

 

[oldbadger]

You obviously haven't googled 'Baha'i scandals' have you?

What? Really?
What has been going on?

OK, I'll google 'Bahai scandals' and go find out.

Not naughty parties, I'll bet.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You forgot brain drain.

Have you ever been to India?

By brain drain, I presume you mean talented people relocating overseas? That is really an inevitability of globalisation. Skilled people move to where they can earn more and have a better quality of life. I could improve my income by nearly 50% by moving to Australia.

I have never been to India but lived nearly 3 months in a predominantly Indian town in Fiji.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well, the Shaolin temple was burned down during the cultural revolution, but it and its philosophy came in prominence again after a few films came up on it, by the likes of Bruce Lee and Jet Li.

Marxist philosophy is highly materialistic and have no place for religion and tradition in it.

Marxism has generally been a disaster wherever its been established. China hasn't really been following Marxism since its capitalist like economic reforms during the 1970s.

Would Karl Marx recognise China’s new communism?

 

[SomeRandom]

You obviously haven't googled 'Baha'i scandals' have you?

I don't tend to google any scandals tbh. Being a gamer I'm usually all scandaled out.

 

[Vinayaka]

What? Really?
What has been going on?

OK, I'll google 'Bahai scandals' and go find out.

Not naughty parties, I'll bet.

I'm an independent investigator ... actually. Only thing better than google would be being a fly on the wall.