Hi,
This is an apparently controversial question as per my thought. Please find the reasoning below
im doing this to respond to an arguement i had on youtube. i thought i ould try and make a video on it. this mans excuse for why women should be obedient is based on physical strength. he told me men and women will never be equal because men cant give birth,and asked me if i could lift 250lbs. no but many other women can so here are my two questions
I am not supporting the speaker, in my opinion both men and women should serve God in their positions.
At the same time, I have something to say about the rationale behind men-women inequality, you can go through the following:
Firstly, we need to understand the philosophical framework to churn out the context behind similar statements in the scriptures. It is with the aim to lead a harmonious life by surrendering to God and serving everyone else as a servant. Though I DO NOT AT ALL AGREE that women can be exploited by men, but my point is that MAN AND WOMAN ARE NEVER EQUAL PHYSICALLY or PSYCHO-PHYSICALLY FOR THAT MATTER, BUT ARE EQUAL FROM THE SPIRITUAL VIEWPOINT. You don't need religion to understand the former, it is simple science (google out for information about difference in nature of men and women).
Example: In a company, if you say that all are equal and that there is no hierachy and everyone should be either clerk or CEO, then how will the company run? It is the same thing with human society, WOMEN and MEN are both NEEDED and they are created purposefully different for SERVING in different roles. So, everyone SERVES in their capacity. This is also the foundation for caste system also that is often misunderstood (Ref: BG 4.13). Krishna created caste system based on the qualities and nature of work of the individual, not by birth. It is a natural distinction and hierarchy that cannot be abolished by artificial equality.
is the international society for krishna conciusness a a apart of hinduism? also are the below acurate? (yes this guy was from this,)
Depends on what you call Hinduism, because when you use the word Hinduism it implies that some guys called Aryans came from somewhere else to the Indian subcontinent and because of settlements near river Sindhu (Indus), it came to be known as Hinduism. Further, there is NOT A SINGLE REFERENCE IN THE ENTIRE VEDIC SCRIPTURES TO THE WORD "HINDU". Hence, prior to the Aryan Invasion MYTH, there is nothing called Hinduism, it is the ETERNAL RELIGION and in sanskrit, called Sanatana Dharma. This is what Vedic culture suggests and it has gained popularity in the name of Hinduism due to media influence under the delusion of ARYAN INVASION MYTH until recently. So, if you are referring to that Sanatana dharma in the popular sense as Hinduism, you can call ISKCON as Hindu Organization, but if the Hinduism you are talking about is the Aryan invasion thing, then ISKCON is not-Hindu Organization.
“With God as guide, let us take, the first step to nourish each other, the second step to grow together in strength, the third step to preserve our wealth, the fourth step to share our joys and sorrows, the fifth step to care for our children, the sixth step to be together forever, and the seventh step to remain lifelong friends, perfect halves to make a perfect whole.”
The words “perfect halves to make perfect hole” is the final word of Hinduism on the relationship between husband and wife. Thus Hinduism provides same religious rights and privileges to women as it does to men. Neither is woman superior to man, nor is man superior to woman. Both are “perfect halves to make perfect hole.”
The following are quotes from other scriptures that further confirm the equality between men and women in all religious and spiritual aspects:
“Unite, O Lord, this couple like a pair of lovebirds. May they be surrounded by children living both long and happy ” Atharva Veda Samhita 14.2.64
“Let there be faithfulness to each other until death. This may be considered as the summary of the highest law for husband and wife.” Manu Smriti 9.101
Yes, man and woman (AFTER MARRIAGE) are best companions for advancing in spiritual life (the object of achievement is very clear). When we keep that objective in mind, we don't get bogged down by things, rather become a HUMBLE SERVANT and inspire others to follow the path of acheiving the objective.
“May our prayers and worship be alike, and may our devotional offerings be one and the same.” Rig Veda Samhita 10.191.3
Yes, it is very true.
In fact, it is very unfortunate that some things have happened in post-Vedic culture that have facilitated the downfall of the otherwise valid concepts. For example, when exploitative men with superficial understanding implemented Sati, it was terribly misapplied causing so many deaths and dowry system was transmogrified into a completely foolish practice. And the caste system was misappropriated into the present day form based on birth and dominance.
This is what happens when power goes into unqualified poeple. And when the westerners who came to India saw it, they sent shock waves to the whole planet and the criticism of the caste system, sati etc. gradually followed. This is good in the sense that the misconceptions were cleared, but the bad part is the the genuine concepts themselves had no freedom of expression under such circumstances.
In Vedic time, Sati was VOLUNTARY (Kunti was living on the planet after Pandu's departure and there are many more cases). The reason was
because the wife felt that the fire of funeral is much better than the fire of separation from husband. It might be difficult to conceive such strong affection in family, BUT YES that was how the LOVE IN VEDIC CULTURE WAS! - where children felt the nourishment from the love from mother and guidance from father and reciprocating to them with all due respect - (ref: Ram left to forest on JUST ONE WORD by his father, the gratitude that SHRAVAN KUMAR showed by service to his parents etc. etc.). It was a life based on service-attitude rather than an exploitative tendencies where sex is the most important element and is popularized in every way possible.
My point is that one need not condemn the culture, but SHOULD CONDEMN THE MISUNDERSTANDING THAT CREPT IN. For this to happen, oneself needs to go deep down and understand the values and see how the principles can be implemented according to time, place and circumstances.
There are so many things that one may not have a right picture of: Say for example these two contrast statements from Bhagavad Gita:
O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth — women, vaiśyas [merchants] and śūdras [workers] — can attain the supreme destination. (BG 9.32)
I am all-devouring death, and I am the generating principle of all that is yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. (BG 10.34)
You can a right understanding a right understanding about these apparently contrasting points from the article on 'Position of women in Vedic culture' at 'thespiritualscientist(dot)com'. (Looks like I am unable to post links yet
..) Also, you can refer to the bhaktivedanta purport of 9.32 where it is clearly stated that there is no such discrimination on the spiritual level.
These things can easily be taken out of context and generate WARS between men and women in Hinduism. What is the use? Other people can just clap hands and get the free entertainment. And importantly, both such men and women lose track of their spiritual life and get trapped in these arguments by influence of maya.
These things have to be understood in the perspective of Krishna and that happens by hearing from the parampara (BG 4.2). Just like if there are books and you can get knowledge, what is the need of going to a reputed university to learn from an expert professor in that field and get a degree? And if there is internet to know all about swimming, what is the need for a coach? And same thing with dance, music etc. etc. When the need for going to a bonafide teacher is present in all of those, there is nothing wrong to accept a "BONAFIDE" teacher in spiritual life. And how do you know WHO is BONAFIDE? The bonafide teacher teaches you in the framework of attaining love of GOD and service to everyone with GOD as center and he has received that knowledge the parampara (in general). He does not promote extremism and hatred.
At the end, all these are the pointers to the fact that MEN AND WOMEN are created differently for different roles. When MAN and WOMAN become bogged down by trying to establish artificial equality forgetting the naturally existing eternal equality, the purpose of life is lost and the valuable time, energy and consciousness is dissipated in vain into arguments and quarrels. Drawing an analogy from algebra (for those of you who are familiar), the artificial equality is trying to find the best optimal approximation of equality in a lower dimensional subspace when the accessible solution exists in the higher dimensional space. This kind of so-called approximation is neither complete nor true in the real sense (real equality is in the absolute viewpoint).
When both become devotees of God, they no longer remain mundane men and women - they act on the spiritual platform by playing their respective roles in the mood of service. The focus should be on how to achieve the spiritual objective of becoming devotees of God.
Hope that it gives some information that can help you in your spiritual progress. Good luck and best wishes!
Thanks!
Chaitanya
PS. Sorry about the long post, but in case any of you could read and did not understand some point, please fee free to email/PM/reply.
