Hi Christians, I got a question for you.

[sushannah]

Hi Christians, I got a question for you.

I am trying to draw closer to G-d and I would like to explore some other religious points of view other than my own to see if they could possibly work for me. I am from a Jewish background and I would like to hear from some Christians what it is they believe exactly, why they believe, And also OT scripture to back them up if possible. I would also like to know if most Christians believe that Israel and the Jewish people have been rejected by G-d and replaced by the Church. Thanks in advance for you answers.

 

[fromthe heart]

Hi Christians, I got a question for you.

I am trying to draw closer to G-d and I would like to explore some other religious points of view other than my own to see if they could possibly work for me. I am from a Jewish background and I would like to hear from some Christians what it is they believe exactly, why they believe, And also OT scripture to back them up if possible. I would also like to know if most Christians believe that Israel and the Jewish people have been rejected by G-d and replaced by the Church. Thanks in advance for you answers.

I don't think for one second God has rejected the Jewish people but that some of them have rejected HIM!!! The Jew's of the world are God's chosen and they should never be looked at like they are some evil dogs as they are sometimes treated by others. I'm a Christian and I believe all of what the WORD of GOD says...I believe it to be divine inspiration...God's words penned by the elect God chose to pen them. I feel it is the only word God put forth and that it is totally complete in yesterday,tomorrow, and forever...the words are transitional over time and are for all who read and want to understand the true love of God for each and everyone of them...tehy will always instruct in the way in which we should go from today through forever if we put our faith in His word!

 

[Buttons*]

I take a Christian Humanities class that teaches that there are over 400 prophecies in the old testament that Jesus filled. The prophets of old talk about "Jesus' coming and the New Testament talks about Jesus fulfilling them. (and then waiting to fulfill more once he comes back) Christianity is more about love than laws.... yeah, that's all I got...

 

[michel]

I have read the NT, and maybe I just don't get it. But I would still like to hear some replies. I am beginning to worry - a thread on G-d's belly button has 17 replies. I have one, and it wasn't an answer!

You have a belly button ? - oh, sorry, I see what you mean..........:biglaugh:

I know, I too cannot believe that we are concerned about whether God does indeed have a belly button, fingernails, or ..............A Birthmark ????

Sushannah,

To explain my faith, and back it up with scripture wouldn't take long - because I place far greater importance on my relationship with God regardless of Scripture.

To me, the old testament is at best an innacurate history book, and has been written largely as a parable. My Relationship with God depends fully on my belief in him, and in Jesus Christ, who died on the cross so that we may be forgiven our inevitable many sins.

Whatever path you take to get to God, to me, is immaterial; whatever makes you feel good is what counts - be it Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, Islam.......all the roads lead to God.

As far as the second part of your question is concerned, I do not believe in the replacement Theology theory. I have a great admiration for the Jewish people, and I think Judaism is a beautiful faith, if that is what you want to follow. It isn't 'for me', just as much as I expect my faith is not for anyone else.

Like I said, different roads.

 

[Quiddity]

This is a good place for you to get various views.

 

[searcher63]

I don't think for one second God has rejected the Jewish people but that some of them have rejected HIM!!! The Jew's of the world are God's chosen and they should never be looked at like they are some evil dogs as they are sometimes treated by others. I'm a Christian and I believe all of what the WORD of GOD says...I believe it to be divine inspiration...God's words penned by the elect God chose to pen them. I feel it is the only word God put forth and that it is totally complete in yesterday,tomorrow, and forever...the words are transitional over time and are for all who read and want to understand the true love of God for each and everyone of them...tehy will always instruct in the way in which we should go from today through forever if we put our faith in His word!

This post is not a slam on Jewish people in any way. However it must be noted that for centuries before Christ the Nation of Isreal was looking for the Messiah. They even knew the time period to start looking closely for him. (Remember many thought John the Baptist might be the Messiah?) So, then Jesus comes on the scene at the exact right moment in time. He performs miracles that could not be duplicated by ANYONE before or since, and the Jewish religious leaders of the day deny all that and seek a way to kill him!
Why?
Because they saw the power of the man and knew that the more that followed him....the less THEY would be followed and revered!!! So GOD had NO choice but to reject the nation as a whole...not individuals perhaps, but the nation as his chosen people. That fact was born out when at the moment of Jesus death and he cried out" ABBA FATHER!" the curtain seperating the HOLY from the MOST HOLY at the temple was torn in two....BY INVISIBLE HANDS!
But again, lovingly GOD does not reject individuals for the sin of a nation. Jews who reject what ancient isreal did to the Messiah (and granted there are probably not many)
and turn to Christ as his follower will be shown the mercy of GOD as any other nationality would.

 

[fromthe heart]

This post is not a slam on Jewish people in any way. However it must be noted that for centuries before Christ the Nation of Isreal was looking for the Messiah. They even knew the time period to start looking closely for him. (Remember many thought John the Baptist might be the Messiah?) So, then Jesus comes on the scene at the exact right moment in time. He performs miracles that could not be duplicated by ANYONE before or since, and the Jewish religious leaders of the day deny all that and seek a way to kill him!
Why?
Because they saw the power of the man and knew that the more that followed him....the less THEY would be followed and revered!!! So GOD had NO choice but to reject the nation as a whole...not individuals perhaps, but the nation as his chosen people. That fact was born out when at the moment of Jesus death and he cried out" ABBA FATHER!" the curtain seperating the HOLY from the MOST HOLY at the temple was torn in two....BY INVISIBLE HANDS!
But again, lovingly GOD does not reject individuals for the sin of a nation. Jews who reject what ancient isreal did to the Messiah (and granted there are probably not many)
and turn to Christ as his follower will be shown the mercy of GOD as any other nationality would.

I understand that most of what you said IS true in the respect of 'persons' but the Jewish people ARE then God's chosen and will ALWAYS be God's chosen...remember I said nothing of their beliefs nor did I say upon the death of Jesus on the cross that we all at that point didn't become brother's and sister's in the Lord...The Jews that were involved in the crucifiction were only doing as God expected at THAT time...I feel they have MORE than been suffering for it...God looks on the heart not the history. He made Himself pretty clear on what we are to do.

 

[michel]

I believe there are alot of misconceptions about what happened in Israel during the time of the death of Jesus. One of those misconceptions is that the Jewish people are responsible for it. Sure the High Priest and and the temple functionaries were corrupt, these were the Sadducees. They had alot to lose so they did what they did and they alone are responsible for it. The penalty for breaking Jewish religious law was stoning, crucifiction was done by the Roman authorities and it was not done to people breaking religious law. It was done to individuals views as a threat to the Roman government. A Messiah who rules in Israel would have been viewed as a challenge to the Roman rulers and this was why Jesus was killed - his entry into the city earlier was viewed as him claiming Messiahship. Putting all this aside, what I really wanted to know was your own beliefs that are important to you. How you came by those beliefs, and if there is a scriptural background for those beliefs. I am interested in knowing if you as a Christian believe in replacement theology, or if maybe your particular denomination believes in it. I already know that this type of theology is rooted in anti-semitism no matter how it is explained. I only want to know if most Christians believe in it.

I don't believe in replacement theology; and I don't even believe that God would punish a whole nation in perpetuity for whatever happened.

I have never understood anti-Semitism, and I have a great deal of time for the Jewish people, who have always been very hard working, family orientated, and brought great wealth to different parts of the world.

There used to be a saying "Wherever there are Jewish people, there is money to be made" - some may see that in a negative way, but I see it as a compliment.

My wife has worked for two separate Jewish firms when she was younger; they were the most caring employers (genuinely interested in the welfare of their employees), unlike most other employers, who just saw workers as a necessary evil.

 

[sushannah]

Well, not many takers for this thread. I will still check later to see if anyone else replies. Again, thanks in advance.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Christianity is not a rejection of the Isrealites, as much as it is an inclusion of the spiritual isrealites as well. The Messiah beat the army of darkness and now asks only two things of us: Love God and Love Everyone Else.

 

[michel]

Christianity is not a rejection of the Isrealites, as much as it is an inclusion of the spiritual isrealites as well. The Messiah beat the army of darkness and now asks only two things of us: Love God and Love Everyone Else.

Amen!

 

[James the Persian]

Well, we certainly don't believe that God rejects anyone, as others have stated here. We do refer to the Church as Israel, but there's nothing anti-Semitic in that. We believe that the Church is the vessel of salvation and as such She is like an expanded Israel. All people are welcome, Jew or Gentile, and there is no reason to villify (in fact it is undoubtedly wrong) an entire people for the actions of a few of their compatriots. Christ forgave those who killed Him. If we can't even accept that their descendants are free of any guilt after that then we aren't exactly acting in a Christlike manner are we? I certainly would never agree that the Church replaced Israel. But I would say that She contains those Jews who did not reject Christ and, as I am an Orthodox Christian, rejection of Christ for me entails rejection (at least partial) of God. The Church is (and should be for obvious reasons) at odds with the religion of Judaism, but Judaism and the Jews should never be confused and thus the Jewish people should never be discriminated against. And they aren't by us - not only do we have a rather famous priest of Jewish origin but the Serbs have been honoured by Israel for their actions to save Jews in WWII, I personally know several old Romanians who hid Jews from the Nazis and in Siret (where my wife is from) the huge Jewish graveyard is tended by Orthodox Christians (because the Jewish community was all but wiped out in the holocaust) and people pray and light candles at the Rabbis' graves, which shows how highly they are regarded.

James

 

[Scuba Pete]

I also don't believe anyone is rejected by G-d. When the Messiah comes to rule he will be King of the Jews and Non-Jews alike. The Messiah is for the Jewish people and the whole world.

Yes, he is.

What is the army of darkness?

Anyone who sets themselves up against the truth and love.

 

[Songofmorning]

Hi sushannah! I am a firm believer in Christ and I'm sorry that the Christians you have encountered haven't been able to have a productive conversation with you. I'm new here and I'll try through the Bible and the revelation of God to answer any questions you have without accusing only the Jewish nation for the death of Christ because believe it or not the whole world, every single person who ever lived or will live was responsible for Christ's death not just the Jews.

 

[Dentonz]

I believe there are alot of misconceptions about what happened in Israel during the time of the death of Jesus. One of those misconceptions is that the Jewish people are responsible for it. Sure the High Priest and and the temple functionaries were corrupt, these were the Sadducees. They had alot to lose so they did what they did and they alone are responsible for it. The penalty for breaking Jewish religious law was stoning, crucifiction was done by the Roman authorities and it was not done to people breaking religious law. It was done to individuals views as a threat to the Roman government. A Messiah who rules in Israel would have been viewed as a challenge to the Roman rulers and this was why Jesus was killed - his entry into the city earlier was viewed as him claiming Messiahship. Putting all this aside, what I really wanted to know was your own beliefs that are important to you. How you came by those beliefs, and if there is a scriptural background for those beliefs. I am interested in knowing if you as a Christian believe in replacement theology, or if maybe your particular denomination believes in it. I already know that this type of theology is rooted in anti-semitism no matter how it is explained. I only want to know if most Christians believe in it.

Honestly Sushannah I come from one of the most hard-nosed denominations there are and I have never met any Christian that believes in 'replacement theology'. I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, the messiah of the Old testament, and final King of Israel. My God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and I absolutely love Jewish people. Jesus was a Jew, and he is my Lord and I owe my life to him because he gave his life for me.

Denton

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Jesus was a jew, he never rejected his fellow Jews.
many of the early christians were Jews Paul had the task of converting many non Jews.

The jews had long expected a messiah. Jesus did not come up to many of their expectations.
He did not act like a King but as a servant,
He did not want to lead them against their enemies, he taught peace.
He did not believe in retribution, he taught forgiveness.

His whole life and message was something new.
He understood the Jews love of their law, but did not extend it to include his new teachings.

It is not surprising therefor that few jews, notwithstanding the prophecies, understood him to be the expected messiah,

Christians do not reject Jews any more than Christ did.
I suppose we are disappointed that they do not see the value of the way Jesus teachings changed the world,
or believe that what he taught was the word of God.

You can be a Christian with out knowing a single word of the old testament.
so do not see it as a battle between the two. One leads to the other but they do not depend on each other.

Terry_______________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land

 

[dawny0826]

Honestly Sushannah I come from one of the most hard-nosed denominations there are and I have never met any Christian that believes in 'replacement theology'. I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, the messiah of the Old testament, and final King of Israel. My God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and I absolutely love Jewish people. Jesus was a Jew, and he is my Lord and I owe my life to him because he gave his life for me.

Denton

Amen to that too, brother!

 

[BaronVonBongo]

Yikes Sussanah I direct you to my post on the covenant. All people that have Gods covenant at heart and strive to achieve it will be saved. Its in the general disscussion section of the Abrahamic Faiths forum.

This is summed up in the prophecies of the Torah we we both believe in their entirety.
In your reading of the 10 commandments, the basis of God's covenant with Israel, please take care to understand that we are all to understand that your neighbor is everyone. In Christianity even your enemy is your neighbor, as we should love our enemies.
I would reccommend that you read up on Israelite history after the uprising against the Greeks about 200 BC to the destruction of the temple in about AD70.
Work out who the Sects where and how they are manifest today. All who wanted to keep the Torah.
Christians and Muslims irrutably accept Torah, to deny is to deny our religions, it is written in our revealed scriptures, as opposed to our oral traditions.
You should learn the distinction between Talmud and Torah.

 

[smitten508]

As a Christian we are taught that the God YHWH revealed Himself fully in the Divine person of Jesus(Y'shua) of Nazereth. That Jesus and Almighty God have the same essence, power and glory and that while being 2 personalities are ONE being... crazy at first I know... MOST of us believe that the Jewish nation are indeed the chosen people of God, since a covenant is an everlasting agreement. Why do you think that Israel is always backed up by America? It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with a spiritual closeness between Christian America and Judaism. When reading the NT remember that Jesus himself was a Jew. Remember also that the old testament is what is referred to when NT writers speak of scripture. I hope this helps, feel free to email me personally for any more in depth questions...

 

[Buttons*]

wow, reviving an OLD thread