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Hezekiah and Revelation of Messiah.

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by John D. Brey, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    [11:]10. the root of Jesse ---- I.e. he who emanates from the root of Jesse . . ..

    Judaica Book of the Prophets (emphasis mine).​

    What a peculiar statement? Messiah is he who "emanates" from the root of Jesse. Why does the Jewish exegete use the word "emanate" rather than speaking of someone come through the line of Jesse through patrilineage and birth? And why focus on the "root" of Jesse? "A shoot will come up from the stump [root] of Jesse." . . The same Jewish commentator responds:

    When a tree is cut down, only the stump remains, and the twigs spring up around it . . . from its roots and its stump, a new shoot will spring . . ..

    Ibid.​

    The peculiar use of "root" גזע and thus "emanate," is made patently clear by the fact that Isaiah chapter 11, as the Jewish exegetes explain, is speaking not of normal sexual reproduction, normal arboreal reproduction, but rather "coppicing," whereby the sexual stump normally associated with arboreal reproduction is cut down (10:34), מול, such that what grows out of the stump must "emanate" from (or be grafted onto) the the stump itself, rather than coming from a union of the tree, the fruit, and normal sexual fertilization practices.

    Messiah "emanates" from the stump of Jesse's patrilineal line. He doesn't come through the normal sexual practices that produce the natural patrilineage of Jesse since the Hebrew word for "root" גזע speaks of "a felled tree."



    John
     
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  2. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    "Isaiah speaks of the 'stump of Jesse' (v. 1). The image here is of a tree that has been so devastated that only a stump remains."

    "The Davidic line would seem to be dead, life would remain within the stump. A shoot—life barely detectable at first—would emerge. But once this shoot went forth, it would become a mighty tree. A king of humble origins would be a signal for the nations after the exile."

    references:
    hyperlink >>> www.ligonier.org - Jesse's Shoot
    Torah Anthology ( Yalkut ME'AM LO'EZ ): The Book of Yeshayahu Page 77.
     
  3. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    How does Hezekiah figure into Isaiah's messianic language?

    [11:]10. the root of Jesse . . . which stands --- I.e., which will stand at that time as a banner for peoples, on the day of the ingathering of the exiles, and the Messiah will be like the banner borne in battle, which all the soldiers seek . . . So will all nations seek the Messiah . . . According to Rabbi Moshe Hakohen, it alludes to Hezekiah . . ..

    Ibid.​

    Not withstanding the poetic language, why is this messianic-branch now being compared to a banner carried in battle? Messiah a banner? Carried in battle? And who would be holding the messianic-branch in their hand to rally all the troops? And why will "all the nations" (the goy) seek out this messianic-branch raised as a banner as though they're the troops rallied by this messianic-branch raised up like a banner?

    And what's Hezekiah to do with all this?

    In 2 Kings 18:4 we're told the Israelites gave the messianic-branch a personal name, “Nehushtan.” They used the banner, the branch, pretty much as Christian's use the crucifix. As a salvific-emblem where prayers, supplications, and the hopes for salvation are directed toward God.

    In a bizarre echo from the Gospels, after explaining that the Israelites were worshiping at the messianic-branch, Nehushtan, the very next statement (2 Kings 18:5) reads : "He [the messianic-branch] trusted in Hashem, the Hashem of Israel."

    The Gospel documents that when the religious reformers looked up at Jesus lifted on the branch they said the precise words recorded in 2 Kings 18:5: "He trusted in Hashem; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God" (Matthew 27:43).

    Jewish exegetes make 2 Kings 18:5 speak of Hezekiah (Hezekiah trusted Hashem), who, Hezekiah, the passage claims crucified Nehustan because some Jews were seeking it out, as they sought out the latter day saint, as the means of salvation and contact with God. Hezekiah's attitude toward Nehushtan was like some latter-day priest's attitude toward Jesus of Nazareth.

    And right here is where the idea of Hezekiah as messiah is hatched since 2 Kings 18:5 claims the one who trusted in Hashem was, get this, the greatest king of Judah of all time. None were greater before him, and none will be after him.

    This is speaking of Messiah (no other king is greater than David). Which is why Rashi, Redak, and many Jewish sages claim other messianic passages in Isaiah are speaking of Hezekiah, rather than a latter-day Messiah lifted up on a branch ala Nehushtan. They transpose the statement speaking of Nehushtan, the messianic-branch, with Hezekiah, who actually crucified the messianic-branch, such that in one rather brilliant slip of the scribal wrist the Pharisees who destroy a latter day messiah, on a branch, are paralleled with a messianic king named Hezekiah.

    The elevation of Hezekiah to the status of Messiah is necessary if the destroyer of the messianic-branch in the Gospels is going to be a write-in candidate for the messianic personage found in Isaiah chapter 53.

    Nehushtan is the true messianic-branch in the prophet Isaiah. And Hezekiah is the crucifier of that branch (1 Kings 18:4).

    In the hands of the Jewish exegetes, the broken-branch is ignored in its messianic valiance, while the breaker of the branch, a religion fevered reformer, the Pharisee's messiah, Hezekiah, becomes messianic precisely in the act of destroying of the messianic-branch. . ..

    Hezekiah has to be messiah to correct the narrative such that the destroyer of the messianic-branch (Hezekiah in 1 Kings 18:4), and not the branch he destroys, be elevated to messianic pedigree. He has to be messiah to keep Jews from fixating their eyes on another banner, another messianic-branch, told them by their religious leaders to be a serpent, evil, an idol, and not, as the Gentile nations assume, the true and faithful messianic son of God.



    John
     
    #3 John D. Brey, Apr 14, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    6. Hezekiah's Reign (Isaiah 36-39; 2 Kings 18) - Isaiah ...
    www.jesuswalk.com/isaiah/06_hezekiah.htm
    Hezekiah's Reforms (2 Kings 18:1-16) Hezekiah ascends the throne as co-regent with his father Ahaz for a few years. Then he begins his reign as sole King of Judah at age 25 in 716/15 BC. His reign lasts 29 years until his death in 687/6 BC.
     
  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    What is your source for the claim that the "messianic branch" was named "Nehustan"?

    The Rashi on Kings II 18:4:

    "Nechushton: A derogatory expression, as though to say, “Why is this necessary? It is nothing but a copper serpent.”

    hyperlink >>> sefaria.org II Kings 18:4 with Rashi
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Hezekiah and Isaiah. King Hezekiah, one of the most faithful kings of Judah, and the prophet Isaiah were contemporaries and faithful men of God. They lived in a time where the nation of Judah
    Kingdom of Judah

    The Kingdom of Judah was an Iron Age kingdom of the Southern Levant. The Hebrew Bible depicts it as the successor to the United Monarchy, a term denoting the Kingdom of Israel under biblical kings Saul, David and Solomon and covering the territory of two historical kingdoms, Judah and Israel; however, historians are divided about the veracity of t…

    en.wikipedia.org
    had suffered through long periods of unfaithfulness, and the revival of faith experienced during Hezekiah's reign was short-lived...
    2 Kings 18:1-19; Isaiah 36-39 - Hezekiah and Isaiah - Bible
    www.bible.ca/ef/expository-2-kings-18-1-19.htm
    Is this answer helpful?Thanks! Give more feedbackThanks! How can it be improved?
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    • Isaiah 37 CEB - Hezekiah and Isaiah - When King - Bible ...
      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+37&version=CEB
      Isaiah 37 Common English Bible (CEB) Hezekiah and Isaiah. 37 When King Hezekiah heard this, he ripped his clothes, covered himself with mourning clothes, and went to the Lord ’s temple. 2 He sent Eliakim the palace administrator, Shebna the secretary, and the senior priests to the prophet Isaiah, Amoz’s son. They were all wearing mourning clothes. 3 They said to him, “Hezekiah says this ...
    • 2 Kings 18:1-19; Isaiah 36-39 - Hezekiah and Isaiah
      www.bible.ca/ef/expository-2-kings-18-1-19.htm
      Hezekiah's Foolishness (Isaiah 39) Hezekiah showed the treasures of his kingdom to the Babylonian king's envoys (Isaiah 39:1,2). That was a mistake. Hezekiah was righteous, but not perfect. The Babylonians evidently decided that one day those treasures would be theirs. God was displeased.
    • Isaiah and King Hezekiah - lds.org
      https://www.lds.org/study/friend/1990/08/isaiah-and-king-hezekiah
      Isaiah and King Hezekiah,” Friend, Aug. 1990, inside back cover. Isaiah and King Hezekiah. By Tryn Paxton. Illustrated by Virginia Sargent. 1 King Hezekiah of Judah was a righteous leader. He prayed for the Lord’s help in defending his country from its enemies, and he followed the counsel of the prophet Isaiah.
    • King Hezekiah, Prophet Isaiah Debut in Oklahoma | CBN News
      www1.cbn.com/.../august/king-hezekiah-prophet-isaiah-debut-in-oklahoma
      JERUSALEM, Israel – King Hezekiah and the prophet Isaiah worked together in biblical times and now thanks to archaeology, they're together again…in Oklahoma of all places!
     
  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Here are 2 sources indicating that serpent idol worship was Egyptian. That explains its destruction. @John D. Brey, it wasn't anti-messianic... it was anti-idolatry. Anti-Idolatry is totally consistent with Judaism. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    hyperlink >>> thetorah.com - Nehushtan: The Copper Serpent

    "The most reasonable solution to the puzzle of Nehushtan is that it was a pre-Israelite, Egyptian style cultic image of a serpent mounted on a sacred pole. For the Canaanites, it likely represented a deity with some relationship to the goddess Asherah"

    "Nehushtan likely became popular for a short time in the early days of Hezekiah, when he was in league with Egypt and even adopted Egyptian imagery on his personal seal. After Hezekiah submitted to Assyria, the Egyptian imagery became anathema and was removed from Judahite seals, and the statue of Nehushtan was removed as well."

    hyperlink >>> native-science.net - The Divine Serpent

    "snake as a divinity in Egypt: The great crowns worn by the divine Pharaoh... No matter which crown we examine, ( the Blue crown, the informal crown, the great double red and white crown ) we will find the snake god of Lower Egypt present."

    The Asp is a benevolent guardian god, a tutelary god of the delta region of Egypt. This is probably where this snake was most often found. Even today the swamp-like areas of the Nile delta is home to the Egyptian cobra. This snake was also connected to the god Horus, and therefore with the living Horus, who is seen incarnate in the Pharaoh. The Asp rules by day, and therefore is also connected to the sun god Ra, who is also a god of Pharaoh."
     
    #7 dybmh, Apr 14, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  8. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Snake cults were also in the Indus valley, the Levant, Mesopotamia, the Arabian peninsula and Bahrain.. Much, much older than Genesis.
     
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  9. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure Isaiah was prophesying about Jesus? I know Christians claim that, but it looks to me like he's talking about Hezekiah.
     
  10. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    . . . We discussed it in this precinct here. . . In fact, the first message at the link is almost a prerequisite for understanding this current thread.


    John
     
  11. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    @sooda ,

    The following is related in the commentary I referenced in Post#2 (Torah Anthology ( Yalkut ME'AM LO'EZ ): The Book of Yeshayahu Page 77.)

    Here are online sources backing it up:

    hyperlink >>> jewishhistory.org - Hezekiah: The Messiah Who Was Not

    "The Talmud (Sanhedrin 94a) tells us that God wanted to make Hezekiah the Messiah. Had he fulfilled his Messianic potential, history as we know it – including the destruction of the Temple – would not have happened."

    hyperlink >>> sefaria.org - Sanhedrin 94a:5

    "...with regard to Hezekiah, for whom You performed all these miracles,delivering him from Sennacherib and healing his illness, and he did not recite praise before You, will You designate him as the Messiah? ...the mem was closed, because there was an opportunity for redemption that was thwarted."

    "The mem was closed" is a euphemism for anointing... mem represents pouring the anointing oil, maybe... I think...
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    New to me..

    Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nə.ħuʃ.taːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent on a pole first described in the Book of Numbers, which God told Moses to erect to so that the Israelites who saw it would be protected from dying from the bites of the "fiery serpents" which God had sent to punish them for speaking against God and Moses Numbers 21:4-9. In Kings, King Hezekiah institutes an iconoclastic reform that requires the destruction of "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan". The term means "a brazen thing, a mere piece of brass".[1]

    Nehushtan - Wikipedia
     
  13. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    When Moses told God that the Israelites wouldn't believe he'd seen God, God gave him Nehushtan, the serpent-rod of Moses' authority. It represented God's very Presence. It Saved Israel from the bite of the pagan serpents. It healed. It guided. It's salvific.

    God told Moses to place his hand, holding the serpent rod, into his bosom, and remove it, it was leperous, the leper-messiah. God told Moses, prophetically, to place the leper into his bosom again, a second time, at which time it was healed. God said if Israel rejects the first sign, the leper Messiah, as they did, they won't reject Messiah the second time, when he's healed of his ordeal; and they won't.



    John
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    well... that points to another website. I'll review it. But I think your case will be stronger if you are able to summarize and/or re-post the data here.
     
  15. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Wow.. great link. Thank you..

    Ironically, the life of Hezekiah was sandwiched between two wicked people: his father Ahaz and his son Manasseh. In a great effort to counteract the idolatrous ways his father had accustomed the people to, Hezekiah embarked on an ambitious campaign to build one of the greatest school systems in the history of the Jewish people. He succeeded. “From the territory of Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south… there was not a child who did not know the most complex laws of purity and impurity,” the Talmud related (Sanhedrin 94b).

    However, Hezekiah also understood that in a minute they could revert back idolatry. He knew the weaknesses of the Jewish people. And he worried about them even as he rebuilt Jewish society like few before him.

    continued

    Hezekiah: The Messiah Who Was Not « Jewish History
     
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  16. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Yes, all this sounds familiar except for the connection to the messiah.

    I am definitely missing a lot of the data you are using to connect these dots.

    Moses' staff "ate" the Egyptian staves showing the God of Moses was supreme. But that doesn't mean the staff itself was "Nehushtan". According to Rashi, "Nehushstan" is just a label.

    Also... the leper-messiah? do you mean Hezekiah?

    Like I said... there's a lot here I am catching up on, and I have just started learning Isaiah in earnest in the past week.

    But it is fascinating, so I am enthusiastic to learn.
     
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  17. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Right on. The line of kingship by Jesse was cut off when Coniah was cursed and dragged to Babylon. Psalm 89 speaks of it. The Psalm begins with God promising much greatness to the line of David; but the Psalmist responds to God saying that God has cast off and abhorred. Yet, God's promises are true regardless as we shall see.

    Coniah's brother Zedekiah tried to reestablish the line's fallen fortunes; but faired even worse. He refused to give heed to the prophet Jeremiah and so his eyes were put out and all his sons slain. So he had no heir.

    Zerubbabel did not reign as king only governor; but yet God chose him saying that he would be a signet on God's hand. This showed that God had chosen Zerubbabel for the line of kingship from which the Messiah would come; even though he was still under the curse of Coniah.

    The Messiah restores the fortunes of the line of Coniah and thus Jesse; by dying and placing all curses on the cross. The crown of thorns showing the cursed kingship by Coniah. David was given a crown of gold, but Jesus inherits a crown of thorns thanks to Coniah and others from that line who sinned. And indeed Jesus was honored as king by the crowds with palm fronds but just as the curse of Coniah says; Jesus did not "prosper" on the throne of David. Instead they killed Him a week later. But, He does prosper through death; He rises from the grave free from all curses and freeing anyone who trusts in Him.
     
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