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Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by ΩRôghênΩ, May 24, 2006.

  1. ΩRôghênΩ

    ΩRôghênΩ Disciple of Light

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    My faith has been really damaged. i would really like somone to come up with data showing that this statement is false, or it might basically destroy my faith. like, was this man psychotic

    this was stated by an church father:

    Many things have been inserted by our ancestors in the speeches of our Lord which, though put forth under his name, agree not with his faith; especially since – as already it has been often proved – these things were written not by Christ, nor [by] his apostles, but a long while after their assumption, by I know not what sort of half Jews, not even agreeing with themselves, who made up their tale out of reports and opinions merely, and yet, fathering the whole upon the names of the apostles of the Lord or on those who were supposed to follow the apostles, they maliciously pretended that they had written their lies and conceits according to them

    this was written by the manchean bishop faustus
     
  2. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    you believe in Jesus Christ, yes?

    how does this alter the basic message of love and compassion for others?

    how does this "damage" your faith? surely the very nature of faith is that you trust to it, despite oppinions of others...
     
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  3. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    I don't know if this might help, but do you find wisdom and solace in your current beliefs? If so, celebrate them! I'm saddened for you, that you've found something that you feel damages your faith, but consider what it is in your faith that you find beneficial. Is it the idea that it promotes peace? Is it the idea of a kind male diety? If it's anything that doesn't depend directly on the scriptures or of your faith being the only true religion, then consider it a blessing!
     
  4. Cerrax

    Cerrax That One Guy

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    Ditto. Plus I kinda already figured that happened. Jesus wouldn't have made the NT so hard to understand and interpret that everybody splits into different religions :) Its funny how different Jesus meant the world to be from how it actually is and yet many profess his "work" everywhere but nothing has changed in 2000+ years.
     
  5. Scarlett Wampus

    Scarlett Wampus psychonaut

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    Universal advice: Don't panic! Take your time and let things settle.
     
  6. Orleander

    Orleander Member

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    Isn't this what faith is all about? Who do you have more faith in, Jesus or the church father who said what upset you? The church father is only human and could be wrong. It could just be an opinion.
     
  7. MaddLlama

    MaddLlama Obstructor of justice

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    It is generally accepted by Biblical scholars that neither Jesus nor his disciples actually penned the books we know today as the gospels. The names on the gospels scholars suspect were put there because they were written by future students/disciples of the apostles that lived on after Jesus' death.
     
  8. ChrisP

    ChrisP Veteran Member

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    Wow... my life has changed :p thanks S_W
     
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  9. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    No offense, but and..........

    The 8th Article of the LDS Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly....." That should be saying something. Of course things were taken out, edited, added, that's going to happen over a 2000 year stretch.
     
  10. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Well, some folks just lie. If they are against Christ and the Gospel, they will lie. They will say that no one of intelligence believes the Bible is the true Word of God, yet there are many extremely intelligent and highly educated people who believe so. Christ himself told us to beware of these folks, listen to what He said in Mathew:

    :15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    (King James Bible, Matthew)

    Listen to Paul in II Corinthians:

    11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
    (King James Bible, 2 Corinthians)

    And John:

    1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
    1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
    1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
    (King James Bible, 1 John)
    And Peter:

    1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
    (King James Bible, 2 Peter)

    And Paul again:

    26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
    (King James Bible, Acts)

    Study Christian Apologetics, they will show how the gospels were copied in great numbers, how they agreed, how people would spot a change, a deception right away. They will show how God's Word was preserved for us, for they were written that we may know we have eternal life, and this life is in Jesus Christ. I would leave two more verses for you:

    15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
    (King James Bible, 1 Corinthians)

    10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
    10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
    10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
    10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    The last is so we know, we do not earn salvation by our works of righteousness, which are filthy rags to God, but salvation is freely given to sinners who accept Christ's righteousness in place of their own, in His death in place of their own for payment of sins. This is the True Gospel. Do not be afraid of mere men who would undermine your faith. God loves you and will never leave you, Jesus will never forsake you and is your advocate in Heaven, He keeps you and loves you and will never let you go, no matter what. He has "saved to the uttermost those who are being made holy."

    I hope this helps somewhat, but you must study, get rooted and grounded, so you know that you know that you know you are saved, and that the Word of God is true, and you can count on it for guidance and for your final authority. God be with you and help you.

    Mike
     
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  11. Orleander

    Orleander Member

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    Well, Roghen, how are you doing today? Did any of the above posts help?
     
  12. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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  13. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    I operate by this premise whenever i read scripture. I mean, it is obvious that the writers put their own spin on things, look at the four different versions of the resurrection.
    And we know that the authors wrote these at a minimum of 30 years after the death of Christ, they couldn't remember his exact words, only the gist of what he said.

    I wouldn't let this shake your faith, just look inside yourself, God will guide you along the best path for you. The message of the bible is clear to you, it must be for you to have faith in it - concentrate on that message, not the specific wording of the texts.
     
  14. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The truth doesn't need to be written down to become true. And it will remain true regardless of what's written about it.

    It doesn't matter who's telling Jesus' story. What matters is what truth the story illuminates and represents to us, as recognized by our own experience of life. Any idea of truth that was based on the claims of others, wasn't based on much to begin with.

    Relax. The truth is not invisible. It's all around you.
     
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  15. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Hi, LR! Just noticed you were on!

    I think a lot of people were very kind in trying to be helpful. I imagine it'd be nice for them to hear if their advice was at all useful. :)
     
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  16. kai

    kai ragamuffin

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    Its pretty common knowledge really, but does your faith come from the history of the NT or the message it has given you, if its the message that captured you in the first place then will not have changed
     
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