Help?

[Lj1221]

Hey guys, this is my first post here and well, I think talking to people is a better source than any other media. So, here I am, I am really having trouble seeing what religion is all about. I've been watching many videos on Religion, and Atheism. I've just wanted to see both sides, during my life I've realized that mostly every argument I've been apart of I've been on the losing side, usually because I don't know what the other side is about. So, I've taken it upon myself to learn thoroughly about many types of Religion.

Even in my short life I've experienced many things, sad, and happy. I'm just ready to take that next step to researching and educating myself on the foundations of life, the spiritual, political, social, and just happiness. I've been asking myself what makes me happy, and well I've hit a wall, I don't know, I haven't really gone to church and well I guess I need to be convinced that religion is the way because honestly, if I went to church I wouldn't be feeling the way I feel right now I think I'm okay? But, it's just the fear of hell I guess, I mean if I live my life good will god see it as me being a good person? or is he going to punish me because I didn't ask for forgiveness?

I'm sorry if this offends any of you, that's the last thing I want. I just want to hear it from you guys, I really don't have anywhere else to talk about this. To me I really feel comfortable talking to people online, outside people are great, but the real me can just flourish, no social boundaries. It just doesn't feel that threatening that real life does.

I've reached that point of my life and I just need some guidance or something from you guys. Some tips?

Like I just want to know what keeps you guys going?
What gives you that comfort in Religion?
Does Religion or something else get you out of bed in the morning?

I just want to see your view on like life? Do I need Religion in my life? Will it make me a better person? or can I conduct myself respectfully down here without the consequences?

I am just in the middle right now, in the middle of religion, in the middle of atheism, I honestly think being in the middle is the best place, it's a sense of balance. Either way, I just want to hear what you guys are thinking about life and all of it.

 

[Storm]

Even in my short life I've experienced many things, sad, and happy. I'm just ready to take that next step to researching and educating myself on the foundations of life, the spiritual, political, social, and just happiness. I've been asking myself what makes me happy, and well I've hit a wall, I don't know, I haven't really gone to church and well I guess I need to be convinced that religion is the way because honestly, if I went to church I wouldn't be feeling the way I feel right now I think I'm okay? But, it's just the fear of hell I guess,

Fear of damnation or death in general is absolutely the worst reason to believe, imo. I'm not trying to be mean. If you don't have faith on your own, there's no good reason to try to force it. What's more, that's an exercise in fuitlity. Faith will come, or it won't.

I mean if I live my life good will god see it as me being a good person?

We do the best we can with what we have. If that's not good enough for God, is God really worthy of worship?

or is he going to punish me because I didn't ask for forgiveness?

I don't believe God punishes anyone.

I've reached that point of my life and I just need some guidance or something from you guys. Some tips?

Be honest with yourself and live with integrity, whether that means you're Christian, atheist, or whatever.

Like I just want to know what keeps you guys going?

I suppose I'm supposed to say "faith" here, since I am deeply religious. But the honest answer is that I'm stubborn. Faith is secondary to a thick skull.

What gives you that comfort in Religion?

Mostly, having a community of like minded people.

Does Religion or something else get you out of bed in the morning?

It doesn't hurt.

I just want to see your view on like life?

We're here to learn.

Do I need Religion in my life?

Some people do, others don't. It's something you've got to figure out for yourself.

Will it make me a better person?

Unlikely.

or can I conduct myself respectfully down here without the consequences?

Well, I would hope you can!

What consequences?

I am just in the middle right now, in the middle of religion, in the middle of atheism, I honestly think being in the middle is the best place, it's a sense of balance. Either way, I just want to hear what you guys are thinking about life and all of it.

Nothing wrong with being agnostic, either.

 

[Dezzie]

But, it's just the fear of hell I guess, I mean if I live my life good will god see it as me being a good person? or is he going to punish me because I didn't ask for forgiveness?

First, I want to welcome you to the forum! Never be frightened to ask questions. We are all decent individuals here. Next I want to comment on the above... I completely see things this way as well. I don't believe in Hell at all because I have never felt it was fair to send innocent, good people to a place of damnation because they didn't ask for forgiveness. I grew up in a Mormon Church (later leaving) so I know what it feels like to be nervous and afraid of not believing a specific thing. I walked a long road thinking I was wrong about my change of mind... now... I am at peace with it.

I'm sorry if this offends any of you, that's the last thing I want. I just want to hear it from you guys, I really don't have anywhere else to talk about this. To me I really feel comfortable talking to people online, outside people are great, but the real me can just flourish, no social boundaries. It just doesn't feel that threatening that real life does.

Again... same as me! I am not a huge fan of talking to people about these things in person. I can see the emotion and sometimes disgust on their faces when I tell them what I believe in. Online it's different. I love this forum because people on here seem so understanding (and if they aren't, they at least want to try)... You're going to love it.

Like I just want to know what keeps you guys going?

I love religion for it's History and also the psychology that is involved with the people. It's interesting to see how religion can mentally, spiritually, and physically change people.

What gives you that comfort in Religion?

Hmm... it's interesting? Not sure really... Religion is actually a very beautiful thing... There are wonderful morals involved, as well as many other things. I know... you are probably thinking "religious war, fights, anger, killings". I understand. But also understand that it is the people who cause those things. Religion has nothing to do with the hate people spread amongst each other. We are at fault for those actions.

Does Religion or something else get you out of bed in the morning?

Work does, does that count??

I just want to see your view on like life? Do I need Religion in my life? Will it make me a better person? or can I conduct myself respectfully down here without the consequences?

You do not need religion at all in your life. You can have morals and you can have a happy and fullfilling life without it. It's your choice on whether or not you want to be a better person.

I am just in the middle right now, in the middle of religion, in the middle of atheism, I honestly think being in the middle is the best place, it's a sense of balance.

The middle is the best place to be. Look at all sides... never just settle for the first one you read or hear about.

-Dezzie :beach:

 

[newhope101]

Hi Lj1221 and welcome.

If you're searching for knowledge about beliefs RF is a great place to be. There are so many religious beliefs it is difficult to seek more validity in one over another. There are also many atheists on RF and they can challenge belief systems well and get you thinking deeper.

I'm agnostic also and here for similar reasons. I think being agnostic is reflecting that I do not have the answers. I hope there is a God and I hope there is salvation of some sort, but I am unconvinced either way. I have learned heaps on this forum. We have biologists also that can assist with science type questions and representatives from many faiths. They are really quite a smart crowd. Some posts are way over my head and that's OK. I look it up and learn.

I also tend to argue for less popular views. If you do so be prepared for feedback. Most members are respectful.

Enjoy your journey!

 

[Demonic Kitten]

Hey guys, this is my first post here and well, I think talking to people is a better source than any other media. So, here I am, I am really having trouble seeing what religion is all about. I've been watching many videos on Religion, and Atheism. I've just wanted to see both sides, during my life I've realized that mostly every argument I've been apart of I've been on the losing side, usually because I don't know what the other side is about. So, I've taken it upon myself to learn thoroughly about many types of Religion.

First, welcome to RF. I've been where you're at, but I will tell my story further down this post. Learning about Religion is not a bad thing, but don't learn because you want to find a place to fit in. Learn about the different types of religion to see what fits you and believe it or not...it's okay if nothing fits you. ^_^

I've been asking myself what makes me happy, and well I've hit a wall, I don't know, I haven't really gone to church and well I guess I need to be convinced that religion is the way because honestly, if I went to church I wouldn't be feeling the way I feel right now I think I'm okay?

Are you asking yourself this in a Religious manner? Because IMO to find what makes you happy you need to step outside the realm of religion or your beliefs or what ever box you place yourself in...Think outside the box (so to speak) and then learn what makes you happy.

But, it's just the fear of hell I guess, I mean if I live my life good will god see it as me being a good person? or is he going to punish me because I didn't ask for forgiveness?

I used to be afraid of this, but then I realize what my definition of the divine was and was able to go walk away from those fears.

I'm sorry if this offends any of you, that's the last thing I want. I just want to hear it from you guys, I really don't have anywhere else to talk about this. To me I really feel comfortable talking to people online, outside people are great, but the real me can just flourish, no social boundaries. It just doesn't feel that threatening that real life does.

It's pretty hard to offend people around this place. I know what you mean about feeling more comfortable online, that is why I am here. This is the best site I have come across to learn from not only different religions, but different people as well.

Like I just want to know what keeps you guys going?
What gives you that comfort in Religion?
Does Religion or something else get you out of bed in the morning?

I just want to see your view on like life? Do I need Religion in my life? Will it make me a better person? or can I conduct myself respectfully down here without the consequences?

I am just in the middle right now, in the middle of religion, in the middle of atheism, I honestly think being in the middle is the best place, it's a sense of balance. Either way, I just want to hear what you guys are thinking about life and all of it.

I guess now would be a good time to tell my story. I started out as a Christian, but no matter how hard I tried I just didn't fit in. I asked questions I wasn't supposed to question, I believed things I wasn't suppose to believe in, and in the in I wasn't a very good Christian. So little by little I abandoned the Christian religion and searched for others. My first stop was Wicca. I learned all I could about Wicca and I realized that I wouldn't be a good Wiccan because there were just too many rules you had to keep up with. That's when I sat down and figured out what I believe. What is the divine? What do I believe about the afterlife? What is Religion? To me Religion is a tool to help you worship whatever god (or goddess) you decide to worship. Do you need Religion? no all you need is yourself and your beliefs, but it's not a bad thing to want to find tools to help you.

My advice is to figure out what you believe in and what makes you happy before you try to label yourself this or that. Just be you. It doesn't make you a bad person.

 

[Lj1221]

Wow, you guy's are really sincere and wise. Thank you for your posts they really mean a lot to me, I mean, this is the only place I can really ask people. Not in real life because of the fear of being ridiculed or condemned.

You guys seem really down to earth. That is a incredible little quote:

"don't try to fit in."

that's pretty awesome, but I would really like to give myself a title or group that I can associate with. I mean, I've come here as a last resort, I don't want to bore you with my life story, but... well here I go.

I was born in Utah, lived here all my life, grew up going to a Mormon church, just like Dezzie! I didn't want to reveal this on the first post fearing ridicule. However, my father was a big influence on me, me and my siblings would argue and just wine over going to church to the point we didn't go. He was tired of it, so just said to hell with it. (pardon language) Anyway, he is a incredibly hard working man, what keeps him going is really his children, my parents divorced a few months back, there's a bunch of drama and I don't want to explain it. Well, we didn't go to church often and well, I just lived as if I never went to church, I guess it was just common sense to know your not supposed to steal, kill, and whatnot. But, just so many things happened. The biggest was this past year where I just started thinking about this stuff.

This was probably the biggest event in my life, really hit me, and well it sparked all of this questioning of life, afterlife, religion, my existence, myself entirely, and the world around me.

Well, I met this girl in my sophmore year, in ceramics class, her name was "Kylie" and well, she was really cool to talk to. Summer came, and communication was severed, the next year of school we started talking again, and well our friendship started to grow. Bare in mind that she had a boyfriend all this time, he was away at military camp or something. We would talk in English class, she would constantly tell me how many day's until he came back. Perhaps signalling I shouldn't talk to her? Either way I still did, she started sitting with me before school, when the busses dropped all the kids off I would go sit in the lunchroom with everyone else, and she would eventually come down, sit with me and we would talk. She also started doing this at lunch, for some reason I just felt like I needed to act depressed or something, it was "the thing" to do. I'm a complete fool that I was in that mindset, a absolute idiot. I shouldn't beat myself up for that but well, keep on reading.

Our lunch routine would be, go in line, sit down, eat, go outside, play hackey sack. That would be our routine at lunch, keep the whole day fun and playful. Well, Kylie would usually eat wheat thins, it was rare for her to eat lunch food. Well she decided this day, I convinced her to, said the food was great, so she did. Well, the whole group didn't want to wait for her so we went outside, and she followed. She sat at the stairs, just a few feet away from the hack circle, I could see that something was on her mind, I guess I'm really tuned into peoples wavelengths where they are troubled. I knew something was wrong, but I didn't react, for fear of ridicule from my friends. So I didn't do anything, she finished and came to play hack. The day went on as normal....

The next day, I arrived at school, and two friends approached me, Ryan, and Tyler.
"Hey man did you hear?" Ryan
"Hear what?" me
"You know that Kylie girl that sat with us at lunch?"
"Yeah?"
"Well, she killed herself"
"What?"
Ryan, "Yeah, everyones crying over there."

At this point I was highly skeptical of the credibility of their statements.
I really didn't trust what they said, I guess I could of said I was in denial. So, the bell rang and I headed to my first period, thinking about their words. Sat down in a seat, and listened to the opening announcements.

"We have some sad news today..."

well, you can fill in the rest of the conversation. When I heard that, my heart sunk, and I felt incredible guilt and curiosity. "WHY?!" why did she do it? Was the first question I asked.

Apparently she had hung herself because her boyfriend broke up with her. He told her to kill herself... I was furious, and still couldn't believe it. I talked to the counselor a few days later and started questioning god, and religion.

"If someone kills themselves they go to hell?!" (or purgatory whatever) I couldn't help but wonder why would god punish someone that was already hurting?... why would he do that? It's not right. That was the starting point of this whole researching fiasco, from there I researched atheism, was introduced to a few comedians, movies, books, just started reading, thinking. It really hurt... either way.

This has really just added to the atheist part of me... and I'm reading and you guys are saying just to go your own way. It feel's right, but is it? I mean, I've looked around at the world, and I see that governments would rather bail out banks than help people?... They could of paid every mortgage in the country, while saving the banks and making everyone happy? (now I'm heading into politics) there are other things than just that, the poverty, disease, the greed of business (I suggest a book "Confessions of a Economic Hit man") it is a great read.

Anyway, I look at this world, this glowing blue orb suspended in a void of darkness. I just think, if there is a god, why so much suffering? I guess I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it's just us down here, interacting with each other, no divine intervention. If there was then wouldn't he have prevented the pollution of his masterpiece? (Gulf oil spill) I mean, the jews dying in the holocaust, the countless unnecessary deaths in Iraq, I mean, the human race doesn't get it!

All of this thinking about government exposed me to "The Zeitgeist Movement" and "The Venus Project" these things really stirred up the whole, it's just us, dillema. Either way, I guess I'm on a hail marry now, just trying to educate myself, really questioning everything.

Just why? Why do I have to pay to live on a planet I was born on? It just doesn't make sense... it's messed up, we could save 40,000 peoples lives a year if we could build systems in cars so that they never crash. But we can't, because of the insurance companies. They would go out of business!

All of this just makes me mad, and well, I guess I'm here on a attempt to get answers from you, when it just keeps sending me back to:

"It's just me, I am the master of my soul, I decide my fate, my destiny. It's me, I'm my culture, my parents teachings, my experiences. Nothing more, nothing less."

I guess, I'm here on a desperate attempt to get the answer to life. It's impossible and no scientist will ever figure it out. I guess it's just my choice.

You guys are incredible individuals, everyone I talk to if it be religious people, atheists, scientists, if I watch videos. It just points me to myself, is it really that easy? Is it just me? I guess I just need to come to grips on it... I mean, I could jump off a bridge and end it. I am truly the master of my soul.

:/

This post is a messy one and I apologize, when I post something I just go all out, it's like a stream of consciousness, it just keeps on going and going, no structure, just free roam.

Ummmm... since it's such a broad vague massive mess of messiness.

What do you guys think about life? What about our governments? Did god put that down here or did we? Did he like step back and just let all of this develop to the point to where we have the power to destroy this planet?

It's a giant mess and I guess, we all need to realize where in it together, and we have the possibility to move into a era of peace never seen before. I just need to gather my thoughts, I appreciate your posts, and replies thank you so much. If you guys are interested in talking some time just send me a email or something, I always find it hard to maintain forum profiles and stuff. Thanks again.

Thank you for your posts (yet again) and I highly appreciate it... ^^

 

[Dezzie]

Wow, you guy's are really sincere and wise. Thank you for your posts they really mean a lot to me, I mean, this is the only place I can really ask people. Not in real life because of the fear of being ridiculed or condemned.

No one should ever feel afraid to be ridiculed. Don't ever be afraid to be who you want to be! I most certainly was at first but I shouldn't have been. What I believe in is just as close to being correct as anyone elses belief.

I was born in Utah, lived here all my life, grew up going to a Mormon church, just like Dezzie! I didn't want to reveal this on the first post fearing ridicule. However, my father was a big influence on me, me and my siblings would argue and just wine over going to church to the point we didn't go. He was tired of it, so just said to hell with it. (pardon language) Anyway, he is a incredibly hard working man, what keeps him going is really his children, my parents divorced a few months back, there's a bunch of drama and I don't want to explain it. Well, we didn't go to church often and well, I just lived as if I never went to church, I guess it was just common sense to know your not supposed to steal, kill, and whatnot. But, just so many things happened. The biggest was this past year where I just started thinking about this stuff.

Well... guess what religion my Father switched to after he left the Mormon Church... Wiccan. It's funny how things work out isn't it? My parents split up many years ago so I understand the craziness of the home... I can remember it hurting so bad but well... Look at it on the brightside. It's most likely for the best (well... it was for my parents anyway).

The next day, I arrived at school, and two friends approached me, Ryan, and Tyler.
"Hey man did you hear?" Ryan
"Hear what?" me
"You know that Kylie girl that sat with us at lunch?"
"Yeah?"
"Well, she killed herself"
"What?"
Ryan, "Yeah, everyones crying over there."

First I want to say, I am so sorry for what happened... These things certainly happen to the best of us. It is a very sad life experience and I feel for you. I hope that you don't blame yourself for not speaking to her before that tragedy happened. It wasn't your fault... She must have had a tough life...

"If someone kills themselves they go to hell?!" (or purgatory whatever) I couldn't help but wonder why would god punish someone that was already hurting?... why would he do that? It's not right.

I 100% agree with you and this statement. I never completely understood why a God would punish someone for being in pain... or someone that grew up in a bad home. Those people are not who are at fault. It was the person/people running the home life.

just to go your own way. It feel's right, but is it? I mean, I've looked around at the world, and I see that governments would rather bail out banks than help people?... They could of paid every mortgage in the country, while saving the banks and making everyone happy? (now I'm heading into politics) there are other things than just that, the poverty, disease, the greed of business (I suggest a book "Confessions of a Economic Hit man") it is a great read.

I swear... you keep taking the words right out of my mind! You're like my twin or something... I was actually going to buy that same book a while back but didn't. Since you said it's a good book, I really have to get it now.

You can never be sure if your belief is true... but if it makes you happy and if it feels right... well... maybe it is. There is always the possibility of it being right. So what if your wrong. Live your life to the fullest and enjoy it while your here. Try not to beat yourself up over what's true and what isn't... we're probably never going to know it anyway. Live your life the way that feels RIGHT to you. Try not to have any regrets.

Anyway, I look at this world, this glowing blue orb suspended in a void of darkness. I just think, if there is a god, why so much suffering? I guess I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it's just us down here, interacting with each other, no divine intervention. If there was then wouldn't he have prevented the pollution of his masterpiece? (Gulf oil spill) I mean, the jews dying in the holocaust, the countless unnecessary deaths in Iraq, I mean, the human race doesn't get it!

I've wondered the same thing... I still believe in a God because many things have fallen into place in my life. Things that I used to think never would... Do I know who God is? Nope... Do I know if I am right about God? Nope. I always ask the questions like "What IS God?" "Is God only spiritual?" "Is God within ourselves?" "Is God just matter in space?" Who knows...

Just why? Why do I have to pay to live on a planet I was born on? It just doesn't make sense... it's messed up, we could save 40,000 peoples lives a year if we could build systems in cars so that they never crash. But we can't, because of the insurance companies. They would go out of business!

Well... that's the Government for you... Ugh... :areyoucra I have nothing else to say about that System... believe me. You've pretty much summed up my feelings as far as that is concerned.

You guys are incredible individuals, everyone I talk to if it be religious people, atheists, scientists, if I watch videos. It just points me to myself

You are quite the incredible individual yourself. Seriously... You got brains! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. It made me feel not so alone.

What do you guys think about life?

It's CONFUSING... lol but yet... it can be fun and mysterious. Truely interesting. I can't tell you life is meaningless... but I also can't tell you it has meaning. I don't know. I'm just as confused confused as you are, my friend.

What about our governments? Did god put that down here or did we? Did he like step back and just let all of this develop to the point to where we have the power to destroy this planet?

We did all of this... I really wish people would come together and make a change. We can't be afraid to open our mouths. I can be at times (depends on the situation)... I hate it. I wish I could give the Government one of these: :slap: We have been destroying this planet. It has nothing to do with God.

It's a giant mess and I guess, we all need to realize where in it together, and we have the possibility to move into a era of peace never seen before.

Thank YOU for your post. It meant a lot. Part of it even brought me to tears. I've just never heard someone else say the same things I have wanted to say for years. We are all in this together... we can all make a change in the world. No one realizes it though. I think a lot of people are in denial... They think, "Eh... the world is fine. I don't need to help fix anything. I'll be dead way before something horrid happens." THIS is the attitude of the people... What about our children and our children's children??? Does that not matter anymore???? We all gave up! We can all make a difference... for example... if you see garbage outside on the ground because someone was too damn lazy to throw it away themselves, PICK IT UP... I never understood how someone could just walk over a can, or plastic and not pick it up. Lord people... do your services and quit being so dirty!

lol BUT thank you for your thoughts! I really look forward to hearing more from you! :angel2:

 

[Demonic Kitten]

Wow that's a lot to digest.

If you need a label or a place to fit in then find it. There is nothing wrong with that either. You have to search your heart and your soul. This is going to sound corny, but the answer is within you...it always is.

I'm afraid right now I can't be more helpful that that because I am in a rough spot in my life and I am struggling just to keep myself afloat in this river called Life. I know that the others here will be waaayyyy more helpful that I could ever be. I will keep you in my thoughts.

 

[Lj1221]

We can all make a change, but it has to start first with the persons soul. I've also researched many things about change and stuff as well, I mean, if everyone stood up and said that we don't want to live like slaves anymore than we could really change everything. But, we are so divided, and subdued, that we don't seem validated in our beliefs. I mean, no Chinese baby ever grew up speaking Chinese, it was learned, just like everything else. Their Religion, Nationality, Name, this was given to them because they're parents wanted to do the naughty.

That's my honest opinion, if we just saw how easy it is to change ourselves, to see that this isn't how the world is supposed to be. I live in America, and listening in History class at the founding fathers, particularly Thomas Jefferson, they knew something like this would happen. Which is why in the constitution it gives us the right to overthrow the government, we have the right to a revolution.

It's just time to think, what kind of person am I? Who am I? What are my likes and dislikes? What gets me out of bed in the morning? What makes me feel 100 feet tall? Why all the suffering? Is this the world I want to live in?

To answer these questions you have to study, look at the world around you, get out, get a job, feel what millions of others feel every single day. Think, think, learn, learn, in the end teach.

The Internet is a amazing invention, for the first time in history the world is connected! (most of it) We have instant communication with each other, it's so incredible, I wouldn't be who I am if it wasn't for the internet, I wouldn't be here reading your replies, I mean, every post helps! It's incredibly amazing, thank you, thank you thank you!

Demonic Kitten - Sorry that your in a rough spot man, just realize that any situation you make will only effect the individuals involved, and yourself. Life will move on, the universe will keep on moving, time won't stop. These three have 1 rule, to keep on moving. I suggest thinking about yourself individually, how did you get into that situation? How can I get out of it? Could it of been avoided? and well just question every fiber of your being, trust me, it will be awhile. Perhaps your entire life looking for these answers, I don't think there's a answer to life, there is a answer however to your life. Everyone is different, different parents, different cultures, experiences, brothers, sisters, religion, political views, nationalities, friends, and fears. Everyone is different, so there can never be a answer to life because of the many different variables. Just don't get lost, if you get lost and find yourself in a hole, realize it's just you. You can change your perspective on life in a day, if by your will, or chance. I mean, you could be driving and get into a car crash then lose your legs. That's life, it's chance. I don't know if there is a god, to me, personally, it's just you, it's me, us. We can kill ourselves right now, and nothing would change, might be on the news, might not, the only people affected are the ones involved. The rest of the world will mourn for a second, then move on with their lives.

That's my little help to you my friend, that river analogy was pretty cool. Thank you, you guys. I just needed to talk to people, thanks if any of you guys want to just chat or something, feel free to add me on msn, or facebook ^^

msn: [email protected]
facebook: www[dot]facebook[dot]com/profile.php?id=100000680755062

 

[idea]

I've been asking myself what makes me happy, and well I've hit a wall, I don't know,

Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
- Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi2:25

finding real lasting happiness, is what it's all about!

I haven't really gone to church and well I guess I need to be convinced that religion is the way because honestly, if I went to church I wouldn't be feeling the way I feel right now I think I'm okay? But, it's just the fear of hell I guess, I mean if I live my life good will god see it as me being a good person? or is he going to punish me because I didn't ask for forgiveness?

I'm sorry if this offends any of you, that's the last thing I want. I just want to hear it from you guys, I really don't have anywhere else to talk about this. To me I really feel comfortable talking to people online, outside people are great, but the real me can just flourish, no social boundaries. It just doesn't feel that threatening that real life does.

I've reached that point of my life and I just need some guidance or something from you guys. Some tips?

Like I just want to know what keeps you guys going?
What gives you that comfort in Religion?
Does Religion or something else get you out of bed in the morning?

I just want to see your view on like life? Do I need Religion in my life? Will it make me a better person? or can I conduct myself respectfully down here without the consequences?

I am just in the middle right now, in the middle of religion, in the middle of atheism, I honestly think being in the middle is the best place, it's a sense of balance. Either way, I just want to hear what you guys are thinking about life and all of it.

those who have a why to live, can bear almost any how... you have to find something to live for, or you life will be meaningless / pointless... so, what to live for? decisions decisions... you could live for fast cars, or big houses... you could live to party, or live to find the cure for cancer... or you could live for God.... cars rust, houses crumble, parties leave you with a hangover, if they don't die of cancer, they'll die of something else... there is only one thing that is lasting, only one thing that brings real joy...

I did the relig tour, and it is a great tour to go on, so have fun! I'll warn you though, you'll never learn it all, know it all ... you can spend your entire life in a single religion, and still not know everything about your chosen denomination... in order to choose, you have to tap into the source - not reading books, I'm talking about the real source... you have to go to the man upstairs...

the spirit is real...

This is me - scroll down to see why I converted to the LDS faith
Hi, I'm Jamie | Mormon.org

I don't have everything figured out, I do know a couple of things though. For one, I know that God is real - very real... the rest I suppose, are mere details.

and welcome to RF!

 

[idea]

Wow, you guy's are really sincere and wise. Thank you for your posts they really mean a lot to me, I mean, this is the only place I can really ask people. Not in real life because of the fear of being ridiculed or condemned.

sort of like the confessional at a Catholic church? something about them not being able to see your face...

online is a good place to spill your guts, get your bearings, and organize your thoughts. Once you have it all figured out and organized - there's no substitute for the real face-to-face deal though

 

[idea]

That is a incredible little quote:

"don't try to fit in."

that's pretty awesome, but I would really like to give myself a title or group that I can associate with.

we are called to belong, not just to believe.
I resisted it’s exertions (NavalAcademy) fearing its effects on my individuality. But as a POW I learned that a shared purpose did not claim my identity. On the contrary, it enlarged my sense of myself.– McCain, Faith of my Fathers

not posting the author as a political statement - just sayin, a shared purpose, a group to belong to - that is a good thing to have, a wonderful thing to have... I mean who wants to go through life alone? Solitary confinement is one of the worst things you can do to someone, because we are not meant to be solitary.

just my opinion

I mean, I've come here as a last resort, I don't want to bore you with my life story, but... well here I go.

I was born in Utah, lived here all my life, grew up going to a Mormon church, just like Dezzie!

ha! I'm mormon, but did not grow up that way... unfortunate... I have many regrets about my pre-church life.... would I have made fewer mistakes if I was raised Mormon? prob would have made the same mistakes, needed the experience... at least this way, I can say "I didn't know any better"

I didn't want to reveal this on the first post fearing ridicule. However, my father was a big influence on me, me and my siblings would argue and just wine over going to church to the point we didn't go. He was tired of it, so just said to hell with it. (pardon language)

LOL - my dad won't go to church, he grew up Catholic. He says he won't go, because church scares the hell out of him pun intended.

Anyway, he is a incredibly hard working man, what keeps him going is really his children, my parents divorced a few months back, there's a bunch of drama and I don't want to explain it. Well, we didn't go to church often and well, I just lived as if I never went to church, I guess it was just common sense to know your not supposed to steal, kill, and whatnot.

so you're like me - neither of us was raised in the church.

But, just so many things happened. The biggest was this past year where I just started thinking about this stuff.

This was probably the biggest event in my life, really hit me, and well it sparked all of this questioning of life, afterlife, religion, my existence, myself entirely, and the world around me.

Well, I met this girl in my sophmore year, in ceramics class, her name was "Kylie" and well, she was really cool to talk to. Summer came, and communication was severed, the next year of school we started talking again, and well our friendship started to grow. Bare in mind that she had a boyfriend all this time, he was away at military camp or something. We would talk in English class, she would constantly tell me how many day's until he came back. Perhaps signalling I shouldn't talk to her? Either way I still did, she started sitting with me before school, when the busses dropped all the kids off I would go sit in the lunchroom with everyone else, and she would eventually come down, sit with me and we would talk. She also started doing this at lunch, for some reason I just felt like I needed to act depressed or something, it was "the thing" to do. I'm a complete fool that I was in that mindset, a absolute idiot. I shouldn't beat myself up for that but well, keep on reading.


Our lunch routine would be, go in line, sit down, eat, go outside, play hackey sack. That would be our routine at lunch, keep the whole day fun and playful. Well, Kylie would usually eat wheat thins, it was rare for her to eat lunch food. Well she decided this day, I convinced her to, said the food was great, so she did. Well, the whole group didn't want to wait for her so we went outside, and she followed. She sat at the stairs, just a few feet away from the hack circle, I could see that something was on her mind, I guess I'm really tuned into peoples wavelengths where they are troubled. I knew something was wrong, but I didn't react, for fear of ridicule from my friends. So I didn't do anything, she finished and came to play hack. The day went on as normal....

The next day, I arrived at school, and two friends approached me, Ryan, and Tyler.
"Hey man did you hear?" Ryan
"Hear what?" me
"You know that Kylie girl that sat with us at lunch?"
"Yeah?"
"Well, she killed herself"
"What?"
Ryan, "Yeah, everyones crying over there."

At this point I was highly skeptical of the credibility of their statements.
I really didn't trust what they said, I guess I could of said I was in denial. So, the bell rang and I headed to my first period, thinking about their words. Sat down in a seat, and listened to the opening announcements.

"We have some sad news today..."

well, you can fill in the rest of the conversation. When I heard that, my heart sunk, and I felt incredible guilt and curiosity. "WHY?!" why did she do it? Was the first question I asked.

Apparently she had hung herself because her boyfriend broke up with her. He told her to kill herself... I was furious, and still couldn't believe it. I talked to the counselor a few days later and started questioning god, and religion.

"If someone kills themselves they go to hell?!" (or purgatory whatever)

who told you that???!!!!
Suicide

I couldn't help but wonder why would god punish someone that was already hurting?... why would he do that? It's not right. That was the starting point of this whole researching fiasco, from there I researched atheism, was introduced to a few comedians, movies, books, just started reading, thinking. It really hurt... either way.

This has really just added to the atheist part of me... and I'm reading and you guys are saying just to go your own way. It feel's right, but is it? I mean, I've looked around at the world, and I see that governments would rather bail out banks than help people?... They could of paid every mortgage in the country, while saving the banks and making everyone happy? (now I'm heading into politics) there are other things than just that, the poverty, disease, the greed of business (I suggest a book "Confessions of a Economic Hit man") it is a great read.

Anyway, I look at this world, this glowing blue orb suspended in a void of darkness. I just think, if there is a god, why so much suffering?

opposition in all things...

I guess I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it's just us down here, interacting with each other, no divine intervention. If there was then wouldn't he have prevented the pollution of his masterpiece? (Gulf oil spill) I mean, the jews dying in the holocaust, the countless unnecessary deaths in Iraq, I mean, the human race doesn't get it!

All of this thinking about government exposed me to "The Zeitgeist Movement" and "The Venus Project" these things really stirred up the whole, it's just us, dillema. Either way, I guess I'm on a hail marry now, just trying to educate myself, really questioning everything.

Just why? Why do I have to pay to live on a planet I was born on? It just doesn't make sense... it's messed up, we could save 40,000 peoples lives a year if we could build systems in cars so that they never crash. But we can't, because of the insurance companies. They would go out of business!

All of this just makes me mad, and well, I guess I'm here on a attempt to get answers from you, when it just keeps sending me back to:

"It's just me, I am the master of my soul, I decide my fate, my destiny. It's me, I'm my culture, my parents teachings, my experiences. Nothing more, nothing less."

I guess, I'm here on a desperate attempt to get the answer to life. It's impossible and no scientist will ever figure it out. I guess it's just my choice.

You guys are incredible individuals, everyone I talk to if it be religious people, atheists, scientists, if I watch videos. It just points me to myself, is it really that easy? Is it just me? I guess I just need to come to grips on it... I mean, I could jump off a bridge and end it. I am truly the master of my soul.

that would not be ending anything... just fyi.

This post ...^^

One thing I did that really helped me was to sit down and write an honest personal history of my life - and I mean totally 100% nothing held back honest... once I was able to see myself honestly, I was able to see other things clearer too. I mean you can't see what is around you if your eyes are clouded over... you have to clear your own eyes out first...

 

[idea]

We can all make a change,

sorry, one more post, and then I'll stop... it's about change...

Metanoia

I recently learned a new word, wanted to share it with you. It is Greek, and is used numerous times in the New Testament. To understand what the word means, you have to break it into parts

Meta = change (like meta state)
Noia = perception / mind / consciousness / awareness

So Metanoia is a change in how you perceive what reality is.

K*** was telling me about a new movie. The movie is about a couple that go through a separation, is done from the viewpoint of the wife. The wife finds evidence that her husband is unfaithful. The husband leaves her, abandons her, never calls, does not seem to feel the least bit of remorse for what he has done to her. The entire movie is the wife trying to cope with feelings of rejection and misuse. At the end of the movie, the husband is found, he has been killed in an accident. He was never unfaithful. He did not return her phone calls because he was dead. She was living in a world that did not really exist. Her feelings were real, anger, jealousy, hatred – all real feelings, all created by a lie.

There are many movies like this that are made. There is some big twist at the end, some new piece of information given, that changes the reality of what you have just seen.

When we are angry and hurt – what reality are we living in? Are we living in a world of our own imagination? Is there some new piece of information that would allow us to see our world in a new light – a change in mind, change in consciousness, change in awareness that make anger and hurt go away?

From here: http://www.metanoia.org/light.htm
Imagine you are standing in a circle of people.
In the center of the circle, there is a source of light.
But rather than facing the center and the light, you are standing with your back to the light, facing outward.
When you stand this way, facing away from the light, all you can see is your own shadow.
You cannot see the light.
You can only look into your shadow.
You cannot see the others in the circle with you.
From what you can see, you are disconnected and alone in the dark.
Now imagine that you turn around to face the light that is in the center of the circle.
When you turn toward the light, you no longer see only darkness.
When you turn toward the light, your shadow is behind you.
When you turn toward the light, you can now see the other people who are standing with you.
You can see that the light is shining on everyone and that you are all connected in its radiance.
Metanoia is turning from dark to light.

Jesus spent his entire mission preaching our need for metanoia.
Metanoia is translated in the English language as "repentance."

if you decide to write your personal history, one of the things to write it for, is to find areas where you can change yourself personally. The things we want to change, are the areas we fall short on - it's not always pretty to see weak areas, but really, change is possible! The first thing to change, is yourself... see yourself clearly, change what you need to about yourself, and then everything else comes into focus too...

once you change yourself, you will have more compassion towards others because you will recognize that they are just imperfect like you are... we're all on different stages of the same journey.

and if they don't change in this life? well, this life is not the only place to learn... just gets all of us closer to the 2nd coming, and that will be a great thing once Jesus is on the Earth again... afterall, we are living in the "latter days"

ok I'll stop, great posts! We all ask these kinds of questions - at least I hope we all ask them ...

 

[newhope101]

You have a sad story, sorry to hear it.

Well, I'll tell you where I'm at. All have personal opinions. This is mine. For me there needs to be a basis for faith. Up until a couple of hundred years ago I think people were fairly comfortable in whatever faith. There was really nothing around to challenge any belief. In these days of science and ToE there has developed a platform for debate. Of course many believers can believe in a God and ToE. I struggle with this, many do not. What do you think?

Having been raised a Catholic my beliefs are bible based. I've also had alot of exposure to JW's as well. I can accept that there will be some inconsistencies in the bible. However I find it hard to accept that Genesis is all rubbish. If it is, then I feel I no longer have a basis for faith. That's kind of where I'm at now.

Generally, I think we are in an age of darkness that started maybe with Darwin. This is a time where the very existence of God and resurrection has been brought into question. I feel there is an age of enlightenment coming soon. Many faiths believe this by other names.

Biblically I think Revelation speaks to spiritual gnashing and weeping and becoming faint out of fear relects the pain that believers feel that are trying to hang onto faith. The great tribulation will be spiritual in that something will happen so that 'every eye will see' and understand that God is real and all will have to choose. I can do the scripture thing if you wish to get into it.

The age of enlightenment I think will involve science. Now this is just my opinion and how the pieces are fitting together for me as an agnostic that hopes there is a God. I think science will eventually proove there is more to this life. I wouldn't even be surprised if science disproves the theory of evolution eventually. There are many threads that debate these sort of topics. Scientific testing is advancing incredibly. For some of us ToE is flawed. We see the flaws while others see the evidence.

I believe there is a reason why God does not intervene, in that the world needs to see the mess mankind has made of it without divine intervention. I think this is also a Mormon principle. I think we are not meant to know, as in scientifically proove, that there is a God for sure and there is a reason for this also. Another Mormon principle you may know.

What do you think about it all? Have another rave and let us know.

 

[Storm]

***Mod Post***

Folks, please bear in mind that this is the Seekers DIR. If you don't consider yourself a seeker, please limit yourself to respectful questions.
​

 

[it's_sam]

Hey guys, this is my first post here and well, I think talking to people is a better source than any other media. So, here I am, I am really having trouble seeing what religion is all about. I've been watching many videos on Religion, and Atheism. I've just wanted to see both sides, during my life I've realized that mostly every argument I've been apart of I've been on the losing side, usually because I don't know what the other side is about. So, I've taken it upon myself to learn thoroughly about many types of Religion.

Even in my short life I've experienced many things, sad, and happy. I'm just ready to take that next step to researching and educating myself on the foundations of life, the spiritual, political, social, and just happiness. I've been asking myself what makes me happy, and well I've hit a wall, I don't know, I haven't really gone to church and well I guess I need to be convinced that religion is the way because honestly, if I went to church I wouldn't be feeling the way I feel right now I think I'm okay? But, it's just the fear of hell I guess, I mean if I live my life good will god see it as me being a good person? or is he going to punish me because I didn't ask for forgiveness?

I'm sorry if this offends any of you, that's the last thing I want. I just want to hear it from you guys, I really don't have anywhere else to talk about this. To me I really feel comfortable talking to people online, outside people are great, but the real me can just flourish, no social boundaries. It just doesn't feel that threatening that real life does.

I've reached that point of my life and I just need some guidance or something from you guys. Some tips?

Like I just want to know what keeps you guys going?
What gives you that comfort in Religion?
Does Religion or something else get you out of bed in the morning?

I just want to see your view on like life? Do I need Religion in my life? Will it make me a better person? or can I conduct myself respectfully down here without the consequences?

I am just in the middle right now, in the middle of religion, in the middle of atheism, I honestly think being in the middle is the best place, it's a sense of balance. Either way, I just want to hear what you guys are thinking about life and all of it.

I too would like to welcome you to the post. Aslo.. I agree people on this forum are very level headed and is a great place for Q and A. Just the step alone of seeking an answer is a step in the right direction. As long as you keep your sights toward the whole rather then the self you will find your inner truths. I think its good you persue your knowledge of religion and spirituality but not with the intent of wich one you can handle first, but with the intention of finding what you can connect with. Just remember there is no ultimate mistake in knowledge if you use your failings as lessons for achievements. The width of knowledge in someone isnt flawed, its the someone assuming there is no other answer when it starts to fail. Help and guidance is all around us if your patient enough or able to find it without others, but we have to grow into this ability. You can grow into this ability with others because this inner light and guidance is in us all, were just clearing the path for it to shine onto others. This will never end however, because there is allways more to learn and more you can combine to make new. This growth would be eternal due to that redundency.

 

[Zeroa]

Lj1221, I am sorry to hear about your friend.

Suicide always leaves everyone around with a lot of questions, and I think that asking the kinds of questions you've posed is a good thing.

For what it is worth, I don't believe in hell, except possibly as a state of mind. I do believe in an afterlife, but I am unsure whether I believe in reincarnation or simply a return to the divine source. I don't believe that anyone gets punished for all eternity for one mistake they made.

As for suffering, we have physical bodies, and when bad things happen to them, we have physical suffering. We have brains and emotional lives, and when bad things happen to them, we suffer mentally and emotionally. I can say from my own experience that suffering teaches you more and faster than anything else, if you survive it. Reaching out and comforting others who are suffering is also a good teacher.

It's a sad thing that this young lady felt so alone and so much pain that she took her own life, but hasn't she opened a door of deeper inquiry for you? She's at least prompted you to ask a few questions. Would a happy, uneventful, untroubled life prod people to ask the big questions about life, the universe, and everything?

There are a lot of different ideas about God out there, and not all of them view God as a father in the sky who could protect people and prevent suffering if he wanted to.