Help Translate Messiah in Isaiah 52:14

[Tumah]

I understand you flat out denied the Tree of Life was Jewish as we know it.

And are backpedaling to distract from that blunder.

No I haven't. I said that the Hermetic understanding of the Sephiros is not Jewish. The Tree of Life as portrayed in Hermetic Qabbalah is not imbued with the same meaning and understanding that it has in Jewish Kabbalah. I've been saying this the entire time and I'm not really sure what else I can say to make you understand me. I must have already repeated it three or four times and you still keep misinterpreting me.

 

[SethZaddik]

Yes, that's what I said. The names are Jewish, but what the full depth of what they represent is not present in Hermetic Qabbalah.


No, he didn't systemize the sephiros. He expounded and expanded on it.


I'm using Jewish books on kabbalah...

I don't think you are. Names?

You didn't say anything of the sort, you denied it was Jewish and attributed it to other LATER sources, now you know this is not true but are struggling to avoid confronting it.

I never brought up Hermetic Qabala or had a reason, nor am I interested as I prefer the real deal.

Zoharic literature is the literature of Kabbalah along with Merkaba and Hechalot literature.

So, which of those are you using?

 

[SethZaddik]

I haven't said that Hermetic Qabbalists created the system this entire time. So I guess this means that you weren't able to understand what I said.

You said they or Christian Cabalists MAY HAVE created the Tree of Life, that it was not a part of Jewish Kabbalah.

Yes you did.

Moments later you totally revised that statement and suddenly are an expert in the Lurianic school that developed the Tree of Life.

Seriously?

 

[SethZaddik]

No I haven't. I said that the Hermetic understanding of the Sephiros is not Jewish. The Tree of Life as portrayed in Hermetic Qabbalah is not imbued with the same meaning and understanding that it has in Jewish Kabbalah. I've been saying this the entire time and I'm not really sure what else I can say to make you understand me. I must have already repeated it three or four times and you still keep misinterpreting me.

If the Hermetic understanding wasn't Jewish it would not have been borrowed from Jewish Kabbalists now would it?

Otherwise it would not be Kabbalah or Qabala and not called Sefira and plural Sephiroth.

They would have NO understanding without the Jewish concepts and however they may have altered them doesn't change their source or the fact that is it obvious you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, just want to.

Grab a book.

 

[SethZaddik]

I understand you flat out denied the Tree of Life was Jewish as we know it.

And are backpedaling to distract from that blunder.

I'm spelling it just fine. The letter in Hebrew that represents the "th" sound is pronounced "s" by Haredi Ashkenazi Jews.


You are not describing Jewish kabballah here. Maybe this is Hermetic Qabballah or Christian. But its not what is described in Jewish sources.

See?

I WAS and AM taking about Jewish Kabbalah, you DID state the Tree of Life, which is what I was describing, was not Jewish.

Now you are saying otherwise.

No need to say anything else, this says it all, you are perfectly willing to deny facts and replace them with not very learned opinions.

 

[Tumah]

I don't think you are. Names?

Biurei HaRamaz, Sha'arei Zohar, Tal Oros, Da'as Tevunah, Pesach She'arim, Shefa Tal, Sha'arei Orah, Ginas, Egoz, Pri Eitz Chaim, Chesed L'Avrohom, Sha'arei Gan Eden, Da'as Tevunos, Kla"ch Pischei Chochmah, Hakdamah L'Chochmas HaKabbalah, Pesicha L'Chochmas HaKabbalah, Sha'arei Kedushah, Shomrei Emunim HaKadmon, Meiras Einayim, Sifsei Chen and some other odds and ends that deal with specific subjects rather than kabbalah as a whole.such as Tov Ha'Aretz and Metzudas Dovid.

You didn't say anything of the sort, you denied it was Jewish and attributed it to other LATER sources, now you know this is not true but are struggling to avoid confronting it.

I never brought up Hermetic Qabala or had a reason, nor am I interested as I prefer the real deal.

No, you misunderstood me. I was saying that what you were describing isn't Jewish kabbalah. I wasn't saying that there are not Jewish counterparts to what you were describing. But the way you were describing those concepts is not how Judaism does.

Zoharic literature is the literature of Kabbalah along with Merkaba and Hechalot literature.

So, which of those are you using?

It is *some* of the literature. There's a whole lot more Kabbalisitic literature out there than just that.

 

[Tumah]

You said they or Christian Cabalists MAY HAVE created the Tree of Life, that it was not a part of Jewish Kabbalah.

Yes you did.

Moments later you totally revised that statement and suddenly are an expert in the Lurianic school that developed the Tree of Life.

Seriously?

No. I said what you were describing isn't Jewish. I didn't say that the concepts don't exist in Judaism. Just that the way you describe them is not Jewish. There is a Da'as in Judaism. But it doesn't represent gnosis as it may in Hermetic Qabbalah. That's what I'm saying.

If the Hermetic understanding wasn't Jewish it would not have been borrowed from Jewish Kabbalists now would it?

Otherwise it would not be Kabbalah or Qabala and not called Sefira and plural Sephiroth.

I can't tell if you're being serious now.

They would have NO understanding without the Jewish concepts and however they may have altered them doesn't change their source or the fact that is it obvious you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, just want to.

Grab a book.

I am not denying that the source of the concepts is from Judaism. But what it came to represent in Hermetic Qabbalah is not the same as what they represent in Judaism.

 

[Mark La Buda]

It seems to me that this prophecy is figurative. (Isaiah 52:14) Although he was perfect in physical form, the message of truth and righteousness that Jesus Christ boldly proclaimed made him repulsive in the eyes of his opposers. Consider only a few examples: Matthew 12:24; 27:39-43; John 8:48; 15:17-25. Compare 2 Corinthians 2:14-16.