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Help this wandering seeker find peace!

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
You shouldn't find it difficult in any religion as long as you are not trying to press a personal agenda onto them to accept what you are wanting to do.

I disagree. There are Christian churches that wont welcome a homosexual into their membership, for example.

If you wish to deny participating in the role your physiological makeup cast you in at birth, then don't be surprised if they have disciplinary or corrective measures in store.

Doesn't this contradict your paragraph above?

Also, if this is something you really truly want for yourself, then continue with that as your own choice and don't pretend like you are somehow helplessly unable to make any other choice.

Agreed

Such a framework that has you deceived into thinking you have lost your ability to choose, even if you have resistance, is an indication that you are the subject of demonic activity beyond your power to cope with. In which case, a good religion is what you need in order for you to get a grip on your own life, your own soul and your own destiny.

You are the captain of your ship!

The part in bold needs evidence to back it up.
 

MatthiasGould

Alhamdulillah!
You shouldn't find it difficult in any religion as long as you are not trying to press a personal agenda onto them to accept what you are wanting to do.

If you wish to deny participating in the role your physiological makeup cast you in at birth, then don't be surprised if they have disciplinary or corrective measures in store.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case with churches I've come across. I've come across churches who have openly preached against homosexuals and transsexuals as being 'evil fornicators', freaks and even paedophiles.

I wouldn't personally mind giving up on gender reassignment and actively practicing a religious belief which does not recognize it IF someone would be willing to actually discuss with me why I should do so without simply chanting Bible/scripture verses at me.

Also, if this is something you really truly want for yourself, then continue with that as your own choice and don't pretend like you are somehow helplessly unable to make any other choice.

I am who I am. I can't change that with a sledgehammer. And the fact is that I cannot really know whether I've made the right choice in this situation until I've done it and either chosen to practice a specific faith and abandon my LGBT life or undergone the surgery. And certainly in one case, it's an irreversible decision.

Such a framework that has you deceived into thinking you have lost your ability to choose, even if you have resistance, is an indication that you are the subject of demonic activity beyond your power to cope with. In which case, a good religion is what you need in order for you to get a grip on your own life, your own soul and your own destiny.

You are the captain of your ship!

Huh?
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Something I forgot to add in my OP and in my last post: I should have mentioned something which has further made my religious journey quite difficult, if not impossible. The name I use on here, Matthias Gould, is actually my transgender identity, as I'm legally female still but wishing to be male.

This has made a 'traditional' choice of religion quite difficult, as most religions seem to actively reject gender identity disorder, and would not recognize my legal identity as a man.

I imagine the internet is a real boon for you to be able to dialogue with others. I suspect, but you of course will know better, that various organised religions may be actively or passively opposed or unsupportive of transgender people. But then of course society, and individuals generally, can be difficult for any kind of non-conformist.

Best wishes in your seeking.
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
There's a few things you can do. This first one is kind of more for fun, but it can be an eye opener as well. Go to Beliefnet.com, and take the Belief-O-Matic quiz. Something else you could do, and this is what I did, is to study philosophy, as well as get a basic understanding of world religions. I spent most of my life as a Christian, and I began to doubt things I was being taught, until I no longer considered myself a Christian. Eventually, I converted to Buddhism about three years ago. A few things to remember: have fun with the journey, don't dread it. Don't be afraid to question. And don't stop until you find a religion that's the right fit for you, not one that people think you should be a part of.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case with churches I've come across. I've come across churches who have openly preached against homosexuals and transsexuals as being 'evil fornicators', freaks and even paedophiles.
As well they should if they sincerely believe doing so maintains integrity to the fundamentals of what they have covenanted with their God to uphold.

If you come among them seeking to subvert them from what they believe is their fundamental responsibility to their God, is all you can hope to gain there is turning them into infidels. So, if you had your way there, do you really want the company of infidels to the God they profess means everything to them?

That is why I say you would be fine among them if you are wishing to join in with them and seek to be in harmony with the terms and conditions of the covenants those organizations are bound by. They will receive all who are striving to overcome whatever weaknesses they suffer with if their hearts are pure and they are seeking the ideals of the religious organization.

But, if you come in there seeking to press your personal agenda and expect them to lay aside their whole premise for being of that faith just so you will feel good about yourself is a bit disingenuous.

I wouldn't personally mind giving up on gender reassignment and actively practicing a religious belief which does not recognize it IF someone would be willing to actually discuss with me why I should do so without simply chanting Bible/scripture verses at me.
Most religious organizations are built upon the authority of what is in their sacred texts. They are letting you know that to be in harmony with their organization that you need to have integrity to what they hold as authoritative.

Think of a church like the wife of God. She is under covenant to nurture and succor all those who wish to be spiritually born of her Husband. His spirit is manifested in the word (semen) she holds as authoritative. If you try and seduce her to receive the word (semen) of some other source of authority as what she should be nurturing then you will have caused her to commit adultery against her Husband and you will make your own spirit by way of that the soul of an adulterous union.

I am who I am. I can't change that with a sledgehammer.
That's another way of saying: "I have no choice".

And the fact is that I cannot really know whether I've made the right choice in this situation until I've done it and either chosen to practice a specific faith and abandon my LGBT life or undergone the surgery.
That's another way of saying: "I can't know if something is sinful or not until I actually do it."

And certainly in one case, it's an irreversible decision.
Thankfully you are not entirely overcome by the two spirits I identified above.
You do need very serious help and I am not so sure any religion is up to the task on what you will need to at least come back to a place where you are operating out of choice and out of belief that you can know what is best for you prior to "just doing it".

And, this really isn't so much as a religious matter as it is you having the faculties of mind and heart to take control of your life back from whatever it is that has you of a mindset to totally surrender your choice.

I was describing what I invariably observe when having conversations with people dealing with same sex attraction and other abnormalities in the sexual orientation area. It usually doesn't take long before they boil the discussion down to "I don't have a choice". Then, at that point, the sexual abnormality is the least of my concerns. If a person has given up that they have a say in what they can and cannot do in life, that is a far more grave and serious issue than sexual orientation.
 

horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
Something I forgot to add in my OP and in my last post: I should have mentioned something which has further made my religious journey quite difficult, if not impossible. The name I use on here, Matthias Gould, is actually my transgender identity, as I'm legally female still but wishing to be male.

This has made a 'traditional' choice of religion quite difficult, as most religions seem to actively reject gender identity disorder, and would not recognize my legal identity as a man.
If you think about it most all Religions have gender disorder difficulties themselves, let alone the Knowledge or desire to understand gender identity disorder. Every person has an absolute right to be recognized how they themselves wish to be recognized (as does everything else in existence); most people are just too busy judging what is right or acceptable as opposed to what is wrong or unacceptable; losing the way to understanding in their search for something that does not really matter in the end:shrug:
 

horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
There's a few things you can do. This first one is kind of more for fun, but it can be an eye opener as well. Go to Beliefnet.com, and take the Belief-O-Matic quiz. Something else you could do, and this is what I did, is to study philosophy, as well as get a basic understanding of world religions. I spent most of my life as a Christian, and I began to doubt things I was being taught, until I no longer considered myself a Christian. Eventually, I converted to Buddhism about three years ago. A few things to remember: have fun with the journey, don't dread it. Don't be afraid to question. And don't stop until you find a religion that's the right fit for you, not one that people think you should be a part of.
I agree, and Belief-O-Matic is a fun quiz.
 

MatthiasGould

Alhamdulillah!
I imagine the internet is a real boon for you to be able to dialogue with others. I suspect, but you of course will know better, that various organised religions may be actively or passively opposed or unsupportive of transgender people. But then of course society, and individuals generally, can be difficult for any kind of non-conformist.

Best wishes in your seeking.

Thank you!

Unfortunately you are correct in saying what you've said here. I know this from experience all too well.

I sometimes wonder if I'm trying to fool myself. Religion has been part of my life all of my life and I'm wondering if I'm trying to somehow fool myself into believing that somehow I 'need' to find a religion because I'm too scared to admit that there likely isn't a 'correct' religion out there.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Thank you!

Unfortunately you are correct in saying what you've said here. I know this from experience all too well.
.

One of the very best people I have 'met' has been a person on the net, who is transgender person, so that is where I have got a little understanding from. Plus, as a fellow human, I too have to deal with ****. :eek:

There is no need to find a religious box to fit into. I may opine that the Abrahamic religions tend to have more difficult attitudes to those who don't fit a fairly narrow list. You don't need a club to belong to, but as has been suggested, cast a wide net and you may catch something useful or supportive.
 
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horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
One of the very best people I have 'met' has been a person on the net, who is transgender person, so that is where I have got a little understanding from. Plus, as a fellow human, I too have to deal with ****. :eek:

There is no need to find a religious box to fit into. I may opine that the Abrahamic religions tend to have more difficult attitudes to those who don't fit a fairly narrow list. You don't need a club to belong to, but as has been suggested, cast a wide net and you may catch something useful or supportive.
Very well said. I also have always seen Religion as "a club to belong to", but useful if viewed with an open mind from the outside (the inside view gets too foggy from all the BS being spoken on the inside):cool:
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Matthias,

I would also like to suggest that you consider there are both feminine and masculine roles available to men and woman. As I said earlier, a church is like a bride to God. Those men who hold priesthood authority are in a feminine role to Christ. All men who are sincerely devoted to their religious life are to do so in an entirely feminine way to their Lord. And, you need not suppose that there aren't marriage sacraments at that level where you cannot enjoy the penetration and orgasmic delight of receiving the semen of your husband. Sex with my wife as the masculine penetrator is extremely wonderful, but the sex I have experienced with God's Spirit penetrating me makes it pale miserably in comparison. When a woman is totally and completely in love with her husband and she just absolutely adores him in every way and is fiercely faithful to him and when she can get her arms around him and surrender completely to him and feel the power of his love penetrating you, oh my oh my, gives me goose bumps to even think about it. I have enjoyed that and I'm a man in terms of my physical construction. I can also see my wife totally relishing in the process of rearing up our children. She is definitely learning how to properly function in a masculine role to them. I so relish when I see and sense the great amount of love and anticipation my wife has as each of our children has been born. I am certain she finds that process much more exulting than jumping in bed with me for an hour or so of snuggling.

Please consider accepting that there are both masculine and feminine roles available to you regardless of what gender you were born with that you can express and experience in your life. All of us are both masculine and feminine and the key to balance and happiness in life is learning the most healthy and productive directions to express them in.

Given that you are in a state of great confusion, unrest and personal powerlessness, you are wise to not make a permanent life altering decision.

My sense is that because you have been driven to the point to believe there is no choice of yours in the matter that you have been overcome by unhealthy spirits and that you should begin to unwind it all on that premise and get yourself back to where you are the driver again.

As I said before, you are the captain of your ship!
 

MatthiasGould

Alhamdulillah!
*snipped post*


I'll say this once more given that you're clearly missing the point of what I'm trying to say.

I am NOT trying to force any sort of personal agenda onto anyone regarding my transgender identity or indeed any other personal issue. I am fully aware that any practicing members of a faith are doing so out of real conviction and under instruction from their various sacred texts. I respect the wishes and the freedoms of people to do so and I only ask that I am left free to do the same. I'm not trying to 'win' anyone to my side or bully someone into accepting my position.

I am fully prepared, should I be convinced by logical reasoning that any one specific faith position and scripture is correct, to submit myself to that faith fully, INCLUDING giving up my current gender counselling in favour of placing myself in a position of using my struggles with this issue as a platform to increase that faith.

I did NOT choose to be this person I am. However I CAN make a choice as to what I wish to do about it.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
I disagree. There are Christian churches that wont welcome a homosexual into their membership, for example.
Yes, understood. Fellowship and friendship can be extended but membership requires repentance and compliance.

Doesn't this contradict your paragraph above?
Not entirely. I guess it depends upon whether you view disciplinary or corrective measures unwelcoming.
If you are totally unwilling to accept their disciplinary or corrective measures, you will quickly wear out your welcome. Kind of seems like common sense to me.

The part in bold needs evidence to back it up.
I was only speaking conditionally based on a supposition.
The evidence appeared in a subsequent post and I pointed that out.
 

MatthiasGould

Alhamdulillah!
Matthias,

Please consider accepting that there are both masculine and feminine roles available to you regardless of what gender you were born with that you can express and experience in your life. All of us are both masculine and feminine and the key to balance and happiness in life is learning the most healthy and productive directions to express them in.

Given that you are in a state of great confusion, unrest and personal powerlessness, you are wise to not make a permanent life altering decision.

As I said before, you are the captain of your ship!

Unfortunately for me all my current gender has done is serve to be a MASSIVE roadblock for me and all my life I've had to put up with being treated quite poorly as a result. I've been told all my life that I can't do something or that I SHOULD do something because 'you're a girl', or whatever. For someone in my position, it makes me want to punch out at everyone and everything.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
I'll say this once more given that you're clearly missing the point of what I'm trying to say.

I am NOT trying to force any sort of personal agenda onto anyone regarding my transgender identity or indeed any other personal issue. I am fully aware that any practicing members of a faith are doing so out of real conviction and under instruction from their various sacred texts. I respect the wishes and the freedoms of people to do so and I only ask that I am left free to do the same. I'm not trying to 'win' anyone to my side or bully someone into accepting my position.

I am fully prepared, should I be convinced by logical reasoning that any one specific faith position and scripture is correct, to submit myself to that faith fully, INCLUDING giving up my current gender counselling in favour of placing myself in a position of using my struggles with this issue as a platform to increase that faith.
Okay, that's good to hear. It seemed to me that you had resentment about not being accepted for being what you believe you had no choice in the matter of. Most religious groups will not accept that premise and it would simply appear to them as a lame excuse or as an unwillingness on your part to make changes.

I did NOT choose to be this person I am. However I CAN make a choice as to what I wish to do about it.
FYI, I don't believe there is any difference between saying "I have no power of choice" and saying "up until this point in time I have not had power of choice".

Now, it is true we can find ourselves in situations where we can make all kinds of choices but we are not in complete control of everything. We can get caught in a wave and only be able to choose how to deal with that as we are taken off the course we intended for ourselves.

So, I know it's not just a simple cut and dry matter. Very few people are going to have the level of spiritual depth of understanding to help you get out of that wave if that's not where you want to be. You may also want to find someone who can give you a surf board.

First and foremost, you need to decide if you want out of that wave or if you want to ride it. Once you are sure what you want to do, then people can get more passionately and emotionally involved in helping you out or cheering you on.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately for me all my current gender has done is serve to be a MASSIVE roadblock for me and all my life I've had to put up with being treated quite poorly as a result. I've been told all my life that I can't do something or that I SHOULD do something because 'you're a girl', or whatever. For someone in my position, it makes me want to punch out at everyone and everything.
My sense is gender itself isn't the issue here. Just as soon as you jump out of the female box into the male box the "coulda, shoulda, woulda" is going to keep right on going, only it will be based on being a man instead of a woman. Dealing with societal pressure is indeed a challenge of this day and age. I want you to know that I sense your pain and sorrow and I am sorry and I love you. I really truly hope you find the help you need to get your way out or to get that surf board and make the best of it! Not making a choice is the most painful thing for everyone to endure.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Very well said. I also have always seen Religion as "a club to belong to", but useful if viewed with an open mind from the outside (the inside view gets too foggy from all the BS being spoken on the inside):cool:
They are spiritual families. We get to shop around as potential spiritual children to see if we want to experience a "life" in that family. It's best we find one without necessitating the mother commit adultery to conceive us as such. (Hope you follow that logic.)
 

horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
They are spiritual families. We get to shop around as potential spiritual children to see if we want to experience a "life" in that family. It's best we find one without necessitating the mother commit adultery to conceive us as such. (Hope you follow that logic.)
Understand, but do not "follow" per-say. Another thing that annoys me about Religions is that they preach of an all accepting God and a God that can "Be the Only Judge", yet they choose to stipulate this by their own desires and greeds.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Understand, but do not "follow" per-say. Another thing that annoys me about Religions is that they preach of an all accepting God and a God that can "Be the Only Judge", yet they choose to stipulate this by their own desires and greeds.
Not all spiritual families are as wise and pure as others.
And, not all the children in those families are well behaved.
 
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