Help! Relatives coming to town.

[idea]

Ok, all you peace-zen-love everyone enlightened people, I need your help finding enlightenment. Remember the George Floyd protests earlier this year? Well, I was 110% in agreement with those who were protesting, am liberal etc. and..... the conservative relatives have invited themselves into our home ... after threatening me and my kids on social media for our political stance. I love their kids, I love them (even the cop), just one in particular I can see fireworks starting up. They are an abuse victim, and tend to go postal on people and are really on the MAGA / cops bandwagon.

So.... advice? I'm not one to allow others to make snarkey untrue hateful remarks without correcting them. I am very good at keeping a level voice, no emotion - which infuriates them more. (They call me callous for not showing emotion when they attack me).

Ok - go - let's hear the best advice rf has to offer

Anxious anticipation

 

[Subduction Zone]

One thing is to realize as a liberal is that even if one agrees with the protesters is that they were harmful to the liberal cause, at least in the short run. The police involved were charged and arrested even before the protests began. And the protests are very likely the reason that there was not a Blue Wave during the last election. They chased many middle of the road types to the Republican party at least for Senate and House races. I would avoid that topic. It is a lose lose whatever side one is on.

And good news. Trump lost! There is no need to rub their noses on that.

That probably does not help much.

 

[dybmh]

Pick your battles. Don't take the bait.

 

[idea]

One thing is to realize as a liberal is that even if one agrees with the protesters is that they were harmful to the liberal cause, at least in the short run. The police involved were charged and arrested even before the protests began. And the protests are very likely the reason that there was not a Blue Wave during the last election. They chased many middle of the road types to the Republican party at least for Senate and House races. I would avoid that topic. It is a lose lose whatever side one is on.

And good news. Trump lost! There is no need to rub their noses on that.

That probably does not help much.

Lose lose is right, I'm not sure why this last year politics got so ugly between everyone. It will not be me that brings it up, but it is a sore spot with me. My job (teacher) vs. their job (cop). I'm a teacher, work with people who have been unjustly accused, get pulled over more than their fair share, the whole thing was not about Floyd - that was just a catalyst for everything that had been building and building. Judge, jury, and executioner all in one vs. the right to a fair trial. There are good cops, but there are a few who are not so good.... as in any profession there are those who are not so good.

As a cop, they are on the blue lives team.... As someone who went through police busting down doors, causing panic attacks, taking over our school over a car backfiring... Example, I work late, was chatting with an officer after work - they told me how they almost shot someone on campus. They came up on a car that had bullet holes in the back (common - just hill-billy stuff). The door of the car was open, and a leg was sticking out - the officer did not see the leg move, and their first instinct was to pull their gun on the car.... The person's leg finally moved, and the officer freaked out.... Mind you, this was a student - sitting next to tennis courts in their car, getting a drink of water, and they were almost shot because their car was old and had some bullet holes in it. Why the officer told me this story I don't know??

So, how do you have a rational conversation with someone who goes into victim/defensive/attack mode?

 

[idea]

Pick your battles. Don't take the bait.

Self-defense? Defense of my kids?

 

[Sunstone]

So, how do you have a rational conversation with someone who goes into victim/defensive/attack mode?

Idea, the only thing I have ever known to work in real life is to keep changing the subject back to non-political topics.
What color to paint the kitchen? Haircuts. Which flowers to plant in the spring.

Any -- any -- conversation with fanatics on any topic they are fanatic about will NEVER end well. You can't win, and they are too fanatic to grasp when they've lost.

In my case, I make a list of topics and keep it in a pocket to refer to just in case their rants make my brain freeze.

EDIT: Forgot to tell you, make the conversations about paint, hair, flowers, etc -- make them about them. Best way to get someone off a political rant is to get them talking about themselves on some non-political topic.

 

[idea]

Idea, the only thing I have ever known to work in real life is to keep changing the subject back to non-political topics.
What color to paint the kitchen? Haircuts. Which flowers to plant in the spring.

Any -- any -- conversation with fanatics on any topic they are fanatic about will NEVER end well. You can't win, and they are too fanatic to grasp when they've lost.

In my case, I make a list of topics and keep it in a pocket to refer to just in case their rants make my brain freeze.

Yes, I will get a deck of cards. I think there is a game with that sort of thing, conversation starters or something.

I need a one-liner that I can just say over and over again whenever attacked.

"I disagree with your interpretation of events, and wish to avoid contentious topics." or something? What is a good one-liner that I can just say every time an attack is hurled?

 

[JustGeorge]

Sometimes, when you know no matter what you say, the other person is going to refuse to see your point of view, all you can do it say "I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. We're not going to change each other's minds. Lets talk about something else" and let it lie there.

If you are unable to do this, perhaps you could ask them to stay elsewhere(like a hotel, or another nearby relative's house). Or allow them use of your house(not sure if you're comfortable with this) while you stay elsewhere, and spend time on a limited basis with them while they're in town.



Your above idea works, too. Or a simple "not going there, sorry."

Though I'd be tempted to make fart noises, or a buzzer sound. I do that with the kids, and it makes them laugh. But, if your guest is a hot head, that might make it worse.

Its a shame we can't all giggle at fart noises...

 

[idea]

Idea, the only thing I have ever known to work in real life is to keep changing the subject back to non-political topics.
What color to paint the kitchen? Haircuts. Which flowers to plant in the spring.

Any -- any -- conversation with fanatics on any topic they are fanatic about will NEVER end well. You can't win, and they are too fanatic to grasp when they've lost.

In my case, I make a list of topics and keep it in a pocket to refer to just in case their rants make my brain freeze.

Sometimes, when you know no matter what you say, the other person is going to refuse to see your point of view, all you can do it say "I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. We're not going to change each other's minds. Lets talk about something else" and let it lie there.

If you are unable to do this, perhaps you could ask them to stay elsewhere(like a hotel, or another nearby relative's house). Or allow them use of your house(not sure if you're comfortable with this) while you stay elsewhere, and spend time on a limited basis with them while they're in town.



Your above idea works, too. Or a simple "not going there, sorry."

Though I'd be tempted to make fart noises, or a buzzer sound. I do that with the kids, and it makes them laugh. But, if your guest is a hot head, that might make it worse.

Its a shame we can't all giggle at fart noises...

"I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. We're not going to change each other's minds. Lets talk about something else"

Love it! and really love the fart noise idea too haha, really really tempted to get a little noise maker haha.

I really really want to use this as zen practice, to find peace, laughter, and joy in the face of anything....

Laughing it off is what I usually do, which makes me "callous" I did point out that cops do not have the most dangerous jobs, did not even make the top ten list - The 10 most dangerous jobs in America

that did not go over well haha

 

[JustGeorge]

"I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. We're not going to change each other's minds. Lets talk about something else"

Love it! and really love the fart noise idea too haha, really really tempted to get a little noise maker haha.

I really really want to use this as zen practice, to find peace, laughter, and joy in the face of anything....

Laughing it off is what I usually do, which makes me "callous" I did point out that cops do not have the most dangerous jobs, did not even make the top ten list - The 10 most dangerous jobs in America

that did not go over well haha

I think my favorite cop situation happened when I was preschool age. My uncle took me to see a air show at the local airport. Traffic was really backed up, and my uncle was quite impatient. He muttered "when we get to the intersection, I bet you there will be a cop sitting in his car eating doughnuts." I was so young, I didn't understand this was sarcasm. I just remember getting to the intersection and saying "look, there he is, in his car! You're right! He does have a doughnut!"

The look on his face...

 

[Sunstone]

The 10 most dangerous jobs in America

I've worked landscaping, construction, and agriculture. Never thought of them as particularly dangerous, but I guess they are.

I might suggest a reason fire fighting is not on the list of the top ten. Professional fire fighters -- and even some volunteers -- tend to be highly trained. But perhaps even more important. You tend be exceptionally alert and highly focused when fighting a fire. We used to speculate why so many car accidents took place in 'perfect weather'. Near as we could figure -- the weather was so nice, people became forgetful of how dangerous driving can be, quit driving defensively, etc. In fire fighting, you just don't become forgetful of what a risky situation you're in.

 

[Father Heathen]

If guests can't be civil and respectful within your home, politely ask them to leave.

 

[Watchmen]

Politics are off the table. Don’t discuss. Don’t engage.

My strategy, which some will look down on, is to be “agreeable” with EVERYONE. If someone says, “Can you believe what Trump said? What an idiot! Haha! How can anyone believe a word he says?!” I reply, “No kidding, right? Hey, have you seen that new Wonder Woman movie?” If someone else says, “Obama was a Muslim extremist. We never even saw his birth certificate!” I say, “Isn’t that somethin’? Hey, I just discovered this new jazz artist. Let me play something for you.”

good luck!

 

[Heyo]

Ok, all you peace-zen-love everyone enlightened people, I need your help finding enlightenment. Remember the George Floyd protests earlier this year? Well, I was 110% in agreement with those who were protesting, am liberal etc. and..... the conservative relatives have invited themselves into our home ... after threatening me and my kids on social media for our political stance. I love their kids, I love them (even the cop), just one in particular I can see fireworks starting up. They are an abuse victim, and tend to go postal on people and are really on the MAGA / cops bandwagon.

So.... advice? I'm not one to allow others to make snarkey untrue hateful remarks without correcting them. I am very good at keeping a level voice, no emotion - which infuriates them more. (They call me callous for not showing emotion when they attack me).

Ok - go - let's hear the best advice rf has to offer

Anxious anticipation

The best way to deal with conservatives is to agree with them. At least on their basics like personal freedom and personal responsibility. They are usually also great on rightful authority.
Once you've established that agreement, "my house, my rules" is something they already agreed upon.
And enforce your rules, it will get you brownie points as they usually love strong leaders. Otherwise you'd look weak.

 

[Jedster]

Ok, all you peace-zen-love everyone enlightened people, I need your help finding enlightenment. Remember the George Floyd protests earlier this year? Well, I was 110% in agreement with those who were protesting, am liberal etc. and..... the conservative relatives have invited themselves into our home ... after threatening me and my kids on social media for our political stance. I love their kids, I love them (even the cop), just one in particular I can see fireworks starting up. They are an abuse victim, and tend to go postal on people and are really on the MAGA / cops bandwagon.

So.... advice? I'm not one to allow others to make snarkey untrue hateful remarks without correcting them. I am very good at keeping a level voice, no emotion - which infuriates them more. (They call me callous for not showing emotion when they attack me).

Ok - go - let's hear the best advice rf has to offer

Anxious anticipation

I would simply say that the visit is not convenient. I have done this few times with self-inviters.
So far no one has got the hump.

 

[stvdv]

Ok - go - let's hear the best advice rf has to offer . Anxious anticipation

Thanks for your post. Such posts are useful to me too, as I can also relate to problems with family members.

IMO:

For me there is really only 1 problem with family, and that is that they never learned the RF Rules, esp. the one teaching us to never belittle the other or the other's (non) faith and esp. feelings. Its okay to disagree, but be respectful; so add words like IMO, I believe (not) etc. And don't impose (that is a major one to avoid anger)

I divide humanity into 2 groups: People who behave humane, respectful and those that don't. Once people end up in the latter group and they are past the age of let's say 50 years, they usually are unable/unwilling to change to the other group (admit they are wrong and say sorry)

the conservative relatives have invited themselves into our home

That seems overstepping your boundaries. You could protect yourself by enforce on them "my house my rules" (I did, they never came again)

after threatening me and my kids on social media for our political stance.

That sounds extreme (threatening). A 'friend' imposed his political view. I said "STOP imposing or I stop contact". He choose the latter

I love their kids, I love them (even the cop), just one in particular I can see fireworks starting up

It's good to love them (but also your kids!!!). Love yourself is a must for this I found out myself (took 50 years, I am a super pleaser due to narc father)

They are an abuse victim, and tend to go postal on people and are really on the MAGA / cops bandwagon.

The above ones I mentioned are also abuse victims (physical and/or emotional). #MeToo. Does not give us the right to abuse others. I told them

So.... advice? I'm not one to allow others to make snarkey untrue hateful remarks without correcting them. I am very good at keeping a level voice, no emotion - which infuriates them more. (They call me callous for not showing emotion when they attack me).

Great you don't allow them to misbehave. That is enough I think.
Great you keep level voice, no emotion. IF this infuriates them THEN they never win their "games"
Great they call you callous, this, is mirror behavior, they twist facts and turn it around onto you

e.g.: They give you a slap in the face, and they start whining and verbal abusing you for not reacting. Imagine what they do if you react in a way they disapprove of?

Best wishes to you, and wish you all the strength and insight to deal with it in a way that makes you feel good

 

[ChristineM]

Ok, all you peace-zen-love everyone enlightened people, I need your help finding enlightenment. Remember the George Floyd protests earlier this year? Well, I was 110% in agreement with those who were protesting, am liberal etc. and..... the conservative relatives have invited themselves into our home ... after threatening me and my kids on social media for our political stance. I love their kids, I love them (even the cop), just one in particular I can see fireworks starting up. They are an abuse victim, and tend to go postal on people and are really on the MAGA / cops bandwagon.

So.... advice? I'm not one to allow others to make snarkey untrue hateful remarks without correcting them. I am very good at keeping a level voice, no emotion - which infuriates them more. (They call me callous for not showing emotion when they attack me).

Ok - go - let's hear the best advice rf has to offer

Anxious anticipation

Tell them you already have made arrangements. Or you can always pretend you are not home, or have just been diagnosed with a communicable disease.

If they fail whenever politics comes into the conversation change the subject to something less contentious.

 

[stvdv]

So, how do you have a rational conversation with someone who goes into victim/defensive/attack mode?

Impossible. But it is possible to accept that it is impossible. Took me many years, I really believed people are open to reason and fact. Seems not.

 

[stvdv]

I need a one-liner that I can just say over and over again whenever attacked.

"I disagree with your interpretation of events, and wish to avoid contentious topics." or something? What is a good one-liner that I can just say every time an attack is hurled?

Narcs just can't handle things when you make it personal
(they are like a 4 year old, emotionally. Shift their "game" into your "game" you are good in)

Ask them "Do you hate me, why do you make such a mean attack?"

Or any variation on this, but ask it as a question without attacking them
(don't enter the conversation/subject ... first establish emotional balance in them)

 

[stvdv]

Laughing it off is what I usually do, which makes me "callous"

I used to laugh it of. I don't call it callous though. It was my fear to speak out the truth and tell them STOP or GO (fear of abandonment etc)

I did point out that cops do not have the most dangerous jobs, did not even make the top ten list - The 10 most dangerous jobs in America

that did not go over well haha

You tried to play their game; I learned to never do that. I will always lose, because they don't feel guilt when hurting me, and I do