Hello

[Magus]

Just wanted to say Hello, I am a very strong sceptic , I am interesting in the early history of Zoroastrianism and Judaism.

 

[Rival]

Shalom aleichem and welcome to RF. I hope you find what you seek

 

[sun rise]

Welcome to RF.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Just wanted to say Hello, I am a very strong sceptic , I am interesting in the early history of Zoroastrianism and Judaism.

Welcome Magus, and is there something about the early history of Judaism that holds interest for you.
To me, the early history of Judaism or their system has to do with God's promise to father Abraham.
God promised that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed according to Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18, so I am looking forward to the coming time when ALL nations will be blessed with the benefit of healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Ahoy hoy Magus, welcome to RF. I have no religious beliefs personally, but I admire Jainism for the total dedication to non-violence. Hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on you. Welcome.

 

[Revoltingest]

Greetings!

Have some pasties from Yooperland....

 

[Aupmanyav]

Welcome to the forum. I am interested in Zoroastrian history (not much in religion), perhaps we will have some good discussion.

 

[Magus]

Welcome Magus, and is there something about the early history of Judaism that holds interest for you.
To me, the early history of Judaism or their system has to do with God's promise to father Abraham.
God promised that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed according to Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18, so I am looking forward to the coming time when ALL nations will be blessed with the benefit of healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.

My approach is rather different, i focus on the Book of Ezra & Nehemiah ,, 'God's promise to Abraham' , in my view, is
the promise of King Cyrus to settle the captives in Judea ( Ezra 1:2), so Cyrus is technically, the 'God' of Abraham and thus the interest in Zoroastrianism.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

My approach is rather different, i focus on the Book of Ezra & Nehemiah ,, 'God's promise to Abraham' , in my view, is
the promise of King Cyrus to settle the captives in Judea ( Ezra 1:2), so Cyrus is technically, the 'God' of Abraham and thus the interest in Zoroastrianism.

Interesting thoughts ^ above ^.
I find King Cyrus was to rebuild the temple and worship Not to himself but for the God of the Israelites. - Ezra 1:2-11.
At Isaiah 44:28 and Isaiah 45:1 it points to Cyrus being God's anointed shepherd at that time frame.
At Nehemiah 9:17 the people confess their sins to the God of the Israelites ready to forgive them. - Nehemiah 9:5-6.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Greetings!
Have some pasties from Yooperland....

Yum, looks oh so good, are you upper Michigan ?

 

[Milton Platt]

Just wanted to say Hello, I am a very strong sceptic , I am interesting in the early history of Zoroastrianism and Judaism.

Is a sceptic similar to a skeptic? LOL Welcome to the boards, and don't forget to put on your asbestos underwear.

 

[Magus]

Interesting thoughts ^ above ^.
I find King Cyrus was to rebuild the temple and worship Not to himself but for the God of the Israelites. - Ezra 1:2-11.
At Isaiah 44:28 and Isaiah 45:1 it points to Cyrus being God's anointed shepherd at that time frame.
At Nehemiah 9:17 the people confess their sins to the God of the Israelites ready to forgive them. - Nehemiah 9:5-6.

A temple, is usually a building dedicated to a particular deity, for example 'Temple of Zeus', but the Temple in Jerusalem is not the 'Temple of Yahweh', it is best described as a Treasure house, rather then a temple, the Persian Empire had provinces and each province of the empire had to pay tax, so in every province, Persia created a capital with a treasure house.

For the province of Abar Nahara, they chose Jerusalem and there they 'built' (not rebuilt), the treasure house operated by Tax collectors, they conveniently divided the province into 12, so each area paid tax for each month of the year, so the 12 tribes, this is described in Kings.

1 Kings 4:7
And Solomon had twelve officers over all Israel, which provided victuals for the king and his household: each man his month in a year made provision

Israel Museum obtains world’s ‘first Jewish coin’
1,200 silver Persian coins, including 4th century BCE drachm with earliest mention of Judea

Judaism was created by Tax collectors







.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A temple, is usually a building dedicated to a particular deity, for example 'Temple of Zeus', but the Temple in Jerusalem is not the 'Temple of Yahweh', it is best described as a Treasure house, rather then a temple, the Persian Empire had provinces and each province of the empire had to pay tax, so in every province, Persia created a capital with a treasure house.
For the province of Abar Nahara, they chose Jerusalem and there they 'built' (not rebuilt), the treasure house operated by Tax collectors, they conveniently divided the province into 12, so each area paid tax for each month of the year, so the 12 tribes, this is described in Kings.
1 Kings 4:7
And Solomon had twelve officers over all Israel, which provided victuals for the king and his household: each man his month in a year made provision
Israel Museum obtains world’s ‘first Jewish coin’
1,200 silver Persian coins, including 4th century BCE drachm with earliest mention of Judea
Judaism was created by Tax collectors
.

Very interesting ^ above ^ because 1 Kings 4:7 meant to me victuals as meaning providing 'food' and Not taxes.
Of the 12 deputies (1Kings 4:8-19) on a rotating basis each one was responsible for providing the 'food' for one month of the year.
To me that meant instead of a general tax, ' foodstuffs ' were taken from the produce of the land.
Thus, those in charge were responsible to oversee 'food ' production, the harvest, storing and the delivery of those monthly quotas as per 1 Kings 4:22-23.

 

[Magus]

Very interesting ^ above ^ because 1 Kings 4:7 meant to me victuals as meaning providing 'food' and Not taxes.
Of the 12 deputies (1Kings 4:8-19) on a rotating basis each one was responsible for providing the 'food' for one month of the year.
To me that meant instead of a general tax, ' foodstuffs ' were taken from the produce of the land.
Thus, those in charge were responsible to oversee 'food ' production, the harvest, storing and the delivery of those monthly quotas as per 1 Kings 4:22-23.

Sounds rather sophisticated for a Kingdom, that vanished into thin air without leaving any trace of it's existence, so how large was the Kingdom of Solomon.

1 Kings 4:21 ( Egypt to the Euphrates )
This was the area that matches the province of Abar Nahara
Eber-Nari - Wikipedia

This was the first time in history, the land between Egypt and Euphrates was unified.

They where four Kings of the United Monarchy , Saul, Ishbaal, David and Solomon
and four Kings are listed in Ezra 6:14-15 regarding 'commandments to build the temple Cyrus Darius Artaxerxes, but the temple was finished in the 6th year of Darius II

I also don't believe Saul Ishbal, David and Solomon where actual Kings and a clue for this is in 1 Samuel 10:1 when Samuel anointed Saul,

1 Samuel 10:0
Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?

A look at the Hebrew word for captain, ' nagiyd ' (נָגִיד), it is used once in Nehemiah 11:11 ' Jedaiah' ' Ruler (Nagiyd) of the House of God ' , Solomon was originally named Jedidiah and David is also described as ' Ruler (Nagiyd) over Israel-Judea (Abar Nahara)

Jeremiah 20:1 - Pashur the son of Immer the priest, who was also chief governor (Nagiyd) in the house of the LORD

It seems the four kings, where more like high priests or governors that answered to God ( the Persian King), rather then actual kings.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I also don't believe Saul Ishbal, David and Solomon where actual Kings and a clue for this is in 1 Samuel 10:1 when Samuel anointed Saul,
1 Samuel 10:0
Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?

Well, I must say your giving me a lot of reading to do especially about things not thought about in a long time.
Before chapter 10, I find at 1 Samuel 8:4-5 (1 Samuel 12:12 B) that because of the un-faithfulness of Samuel's sons the elders, or the older men of Israel, are the ones who made a request to Samuel for Samuel to appoint a king over them.
Samuel prayed about the matter to his God, and, after Samuel dismissed those men of Israel, then God directed matters so that Samuel would anoint Saul as king as found at 1 Samuel 8:6 to chapter 10 (1 Samuel 10:1)
Notice what God says (air) to Samuel at 1 Samuel 8:7.
Then, I also see the confirmation at Mizpzah that Saul was designated by lots to be king at 1 Samuel 10:17-24.
So, Samuel spoke (air) about the rightful kingship due Saul. and made a written record for us - at 1 Samuel 10:25.

 

[Magus]

I have being studying Samuel for quite a while now, he as two sons, Joel (Jehovah is God) and Abiah (Jehovah is my father) , which are clues.

Eli is old and his sons are wicked and as a rather odd death in 1 Samuel 4:17, he toppled backwards from his seat and his neck broke, so its another story about EL ( the Canaanite Deity ), being replaced with Jehovah ( Samuel) ( Persians pacifying the Canaanites in the 5th Century BCE)

Reading how Samuel was named, it appears he was supposed to be named ' sha'al el ' which so happen to be the name of the father of Zerubbabel.

Zerubbabel is named Joel in 1 Ch 27:20.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I have being studying Samuel for quite a while now, he as two sons, Joel (Jehovah is God) and Abiah (Jehovah is my father) , which are clues.
Eli is old and his sons are wicked and as a rather odd death in 1 Samuel 4:17, he toppled backwards from his seat and his neck broke, so its another story about EL ( the Canaanite Deity ), being replaced with Jehovah ( Samuel) ( Persians pacifying the Canaanites in the 5th Century BCE)
Reading how Samuel was named, it appears he was supposed to be named ' sha'al el ' which so happen to be the name of the father of Zerubbabel.
Zerubbabel is named Joel in 1 Ch 27:20.

I also find Samuel's two sons perverted justice according to 1 Samuel 8:2-3.

Zerubbabel from the Akkadian, which means seed (offspring) of Babel, and he was a descendant of David.
Zerubbabel's father is Pedaiah, and he is also legally recognized as Shealtiel at 1 Chronicles 3:19; Matthew 1:12-13; Luke 3:27.
So, if Pedaiah died when his son Zerubbabel was just a boy, then Pedaiah's oldest brother Shealtiel might have raised Zerubbabel as his own son, or I suppose if Shealtiel died childless and Pedaiah had performed Levirate marriage on his behalf, then the son ot Pedaiah, by Shealtiel's wife, would be legal heir of Shealtiel.
Of the Ephraimites... is Joel, the son of Pedaiah, named at 1 Chronicles 27:20.

 

[Magus]

The traditional author behind 1 Chronicles is Ezra ( another name for Zerubbabel) and he also gives himself a contradicting family tree that relates to the Story of Samuel.

Ezra writes his bloodline in Ezra 7 and makes himself a descendent of Zadok the Priest.

Ezra 7:1-5
Aaron > Eleazar > Phinehas > Abishua > Bukki > Uzzi > Zeraiah > Meraioth > Azariah > Amariah > Ahitub > Zadok > Shallum > Hilkiah > Azariah > Seraiah >Ezra

But according to 2 Samuel 8:17 and 1 Samuel 14:3
Eli > Phinehas > Ahiah > Ahitub > Zadok
...> Shallum > Hilkiah > Azariah > Seraiah >Ezra

According to 1 Chronicles 6:3 to 15
Zadok > Shallum > Hilkiah > Azariah > Seraiaiah > Jeho-Zadok

Ezra-Zerobabel is named Jeho Zadok ( Zedekiah ?)

1 Chronicles 6:15
And Jehozadak went into captivity, when the LORD carried away Judah and Jerusalem by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar

Ezra 7:1
Now after these things, in the reign of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Ezra the son of Seraiah

Artaxerxes is 73 years after Nebuchadnezzer , so something is wrong with the chronology, but if Ezra is the one writing it, then it must have being in his own self-interest to legitimise his priesthood.

It seems more possible that Ezra, Zorobabel, Zadok the Priest, Melchizedek where the same character and the Biblical chronology is an allusion.

 

[Magus]

Of the Ephraimites... is Joel, the son of Pedaiah, named at 1 Chronicles 27:20.

Pedaiah means 'God as ransomed', Pedahel as the same meaning 'God as ransomed' and appears in Numbers 34:28, as the son of Ammihud

Numbers 1:10 - Elishama, son of Ammihud
Numbers 34:20 - Samuel , son of Ammihud
1 Chronicles 9:4 - Omri, Son of Ammihud
2 Samuel 13:27 - Talmai, Son of Ammihud

Pedazur ( Rock (ZUR) as ransomed )
Numbers 1:1 - Gamaliel , son of Pedazur

1 Samuel 2:22
There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock (ZUR) like our God.

Deu 32:4
He is the Rock (ZUR)


Gamal is used few times in 1 Samuel 1:22 to 24 describing Samuel's weaning, Gamaliel is thus another name for Samuel.

Omri founded Samaria , also known as ' Samal ' ( North).