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Featured Heaven

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Jeremiah Ames, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to utilize an analogy here.

    You live in a town where there is a very special restaurant.

    Suppose this restaurant advertises that it has the absolute best food ever tasted.

    Suppose it’s ads claim that it’s all free of charge.

    Suppose it claims to have the finest first class service.

    But,

    To get in, a person must do two things.

    1. Make a reservation ahead of time.
    2. Wear nice clothes

    You have never spoken with anyone who has gone, so you have no proof that what is advertised is true. Would you be interested?


    Now, let’s talk about heaven. It’s been advertised to be a pretty good place. Lots of positives, no negatives.


    What if there were only two things that you needed to do to get in:

    1. Have a true desire to be nice to other people. (including on RF)
    2. Have a true desire to try not to be mean to other people.

    What if that’s ABSOLUTELY ALL it took? You have never spoken with anyone who has gone, so you have no proof that was is advertised is true. Would you be interested?
     
  2. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    If it were the only restaurant in town you could either go to it or eat at home.
     
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  3. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Sounds like a scam to me. Avoid!
     
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    This is an utterly classic statement in the form of a question that is designed to force people to give only one answer.

    My answer is that heaven is the experience of pleasure on the astral plane when we have lived more positive lives on earth. Hell is the opposite. When our past life review if over, we reincarnate and learn more.
     
  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Love the restaurant, i always make reservations and dress nicely. And their chocolate desert is to die for.

    Heaven, no, it would be full of sanctimonious religious types who dont really enjoy a good meal
     
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  6. Hermit

    Hermit Member

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    I could be wrong but I think heaven is different than people expect. For most it's more like a very pleasant time of dreaming of those you love and doing things you enjoy. It's experienced the way the average person dreams, they are asleep in this heavenly dream, not awake or lucid. Very few are really conscious in the heaven dimension and these elevated souls perhaps work with the higher beings. I would rather be one of the conscious ones because it seems more purposeful than to just have pleasure but I have to admit I would have a lot of work to do to obtain that level.
     
  7. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    Are you suggesting that this is all that is needed to attain heaven?
     
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  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I would think most people like the idea of being in a nice place so would be interested.
    Also, be interested in a nice vacation or living spot often referring to a paradise such as Hawaii is advertised.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I don't think you are wrong and Heaven is different then people might expect ( harps and clouds, etc. )
    I say this because I find there are two (2) main jobs to do for those called to Heaven - Revelation 5:9-10; 2:10
    Revelation informs us they are to serve in Heaven working along with Jesus as being: priests and kings.
    * As priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards people living on Earth.
    * As kings they will be responsible for governmental duties towards people living on Earth.
    Under Christ's coming rule, the people living on Earth are conscious ones because they can remain alive on Earth.
    They are the humble meek people who inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5. - Psalms 37:9-11.
    So, besides a heavenly hope for some (Luke 22:28-30) for the majority of mankind there is an earthly hope.
    The hope of living forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth as the Garden of Eden originally was.
    This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come!
    Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations as recorded at Revelation 22:2.
    Under Christ, even 'enemy death' will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
    No one will say, " I am sick...." as per Isaiah 33:24. Earth will have conscious people as per Isaiah 35th chapter.
     
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  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find Heaven is full of angels. (the bad angels aka devils are expelled)
    Besides angels I find there are some people called to Heaven and they are the holy ones or saints of Daniel 7:18.
    The majority of mankind (John 3:13) will find themselves on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden originally was.
    This means for those of us who do Not have a heavenly calling we will have food to love including choc. desert.
    After Armageddon ( Psalms 46:9 ) I want a BIG dish of chocolate ice cream with lots of whipped cream on top.
     
  11. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    I think it will be different.

    I'm going to be conscious.

    And conscientious.
    .
    But it's not going to be like disembodied spirits flying around.

    Not even in the New Jerusalem during the thousand years.

    It's going to be physical, much like we are now.

    Like Jesus was during the 40 days after His resurrection.

    The same molecules, the same periodic table of elements.

    I remember reading Einstein talking about the cosmic blueprint, asking did God have any choice in creating the universe the way that He did.

    “What really interests me is whether God could have created the world any differently; in other words, whether the requirement of logical simplicity admits a margin of freedom.”​

    God did the big bang so that we can interact with Him in the physical universe.

    I'm going to have a farm on the Earth made new.

    And my cats and dogs will be back to run around and play there.

    I also want some horses.

    Maybe some ducks and chickens.

    Some swans and peacocks.

    I'll bet I'd think of more as time went on.

    And then I'm going to turn into a ball of light and shoot across the solar system like Gabriel did in swift flight.

    Then get back in time to worship the Lord that made the whole thing possible.

    “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
    Nor have entered into the heart of man
    The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” - 1 Corinthian 2:9​
     
  12. Hermit

    Hermit Member

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    I appreciate the great response. Nothing really to add except, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus come."

     
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  13. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    "To clothe herself
    with fine linen, bright and pure. - Revelation 19:8

    "Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!” - Revelation 16:15

    But it sounds like you don't really want to go.

    “Hallelujah!
    For the Lord our God
    the Almighty reigns.
    Let us rejoice and exult
    and give him the glory,
    for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
    and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself
    with fine linen, bright and pure”—

    for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.

    And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me,​

    “These are the true words of God.” - Revelation 19:6-9

    Maybe there's a way you can order in.
     
  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Nothing beats first hand experience.

    If someone told you that you could win a Ferrari by running naked down the Main Street reciting Hamlet, how many people would be boning up on Hamlet? The naked part is easy......:D


    Can you show me where God ever said that he was going to take people to heaven as part of his original plan? Was it ever offered to Adam and Eve?

    Is everlasting life only possible in heaven?...not according to the Bible.

    The Bible sets the criteria for everlasting life, not in heaven, but right here on earth where God put us in the first place. Contrary to popular belief, the earth was never supposed to be a training ground for heaven.

    Those things you mentioned are part of the criteria.....but they are secondary to what is the first requirement.

    When someone asked Jesus.....”Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the prophets.”

    So you see, just being a good person is only half of what is required.....we must love God with all we are first.

    Faith is described in the Bible as a necessary thing for Christians.....”Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.”

    We demonstrate faith in something hundreds of times a day because we count on them to be true......why would we not count on the Creator of all things to be true to his word? The Bible tells us what his requirements are......it’s not that difficult. Trouble is, it’s a qualification of the heart, not just a performance to win Brownie points.
     
  15. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    Gasp. Including on RF?!? Those heathens don't deserve my good will.

    I actually don't think it's about being nice. The Bible talks about carrying your cross, and not giving your soul to please the world. This is a misunderstanding. I'd put it as:
    1. Live your authentic life, even at personal risk. Because you striving to bear your cross helps others, even if you're just working for yourself (example: trying to be a transgender in a small town makes others like you gain acceptance).
    2. Accepting grace, and showing it to others. This is a hard thing to do, as it is easy to forget that your sins are forgiven but see people that are struggling but don't even seem to want help and are surly to you. This sorta goes along with being nice to people, but it's about being real. Being a person struggling with their own stuff, who nonetheless wants to help.

    I'm not sure I want Heaven the way you described it. I would prefer Heaven like this.



    It's not about a reward, it's about being in a relationship. The food in this restaurant is secondary to a hot date with interesting conversation (notice the husband looks kinda like her date).
     
    #15 Samantha Rinne, Jan 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  16. Hermit

    Hermit Member

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    It gets a bit complicated because there are two different aspects of the discussion. One is the state of those in heaven before the resurrection and one is the state after. As Paul says, "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

    Here Paul seems to refer to the people not on earth, who we typically consider to be dead, to be asleep. I don't claim to be an authority but he may mean those "sleeping" in heaven, as in not lucid, like in a dream that makes them happy, rather than truly conscious in the heavenly realms. Now after the resurrection the sleepers and the conscious ones will both be changed and the sleepers presumably be awake in the new world.
     
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    so.....you HAVE read the parable?

    the Wedding Feast
     
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  18. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Wait. Didn't I see a movie about that once? Meryl Streep was in it?
     
  19. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    I think your idea of Heaven is not well thought out. I think when we die God uses His omnipotent powers of forgiveness allow everyone through the gates of Heaven to experience eternally Heavenly bliss regardless of our Earthly sins or how we practiced, or not practiced, our religion. Everyone is saved just by showing up which is good news for a lot of people. When we die we go into the light, we look into the face of God, and we experience God's infinite beauty. When this happens this is the greatest possible fulfilling experience one can have. We become so enamored by God's radiance and infinite beauty, we no longer have conscious thought or experience the self. We become absorbed back into the mind or consciousness of God which is where we originated from when we were born. If you don't think this is true then your faith is not strong enough to have faith in a God of unconditional love. God's love has no limits or boundaries.
     
  20. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    You're thinking of "Defending Your Life" but the "theology" was different.
     
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