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Featured Heaven vs the Kingdom

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Thief, Oct 7, 2019.

?
  1. straight up to heaven

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. going to the grave and wait for bodily resurrection

    3 vote(s)
    60.0%
  3. thought it was the same place

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    Some say the kingdom will be here on this earth
    even though scripture reports
    The Kingdom is NOT of this world
    It is within you

    and the Carpenter is alleged to have ascended into heaven

    So.....which is it?
    and where do you think you are going?
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Our individuality does not die only current personality which associated with physicality.
     
  3. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    If a human dies
    The souls of the faithful martyrs who died because of their faith go up to heaven
    The souls of the sinful unbelievers remain in the grave and are imprisoned until the Day of Resurrection
    Ordinary faith man his soul goes to heaven too
    The dead burned, the dead drowned and the dead because of the plague. those go to heaven

    Those who did not know the truth or heard it wrongly kept their souls suspended until the Day of Judgment to rule God
     
  4. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

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    Heaven is the kingdom and there the Jews will go and reign with God over heaven and earth. (1 Peter 1:3-4)So that the prophecy might be fulfilled which God said to Abraham, for God promised him that his seed would reign over the whole earth. These Jews will be called the " chosen ones " they will lose their bodies and live as spirits in heaven.
    And heaven, of course, is not of this world but in the world of God.

    But the Gentiles will get the earth and will live there forever.(Psalm 37:29) But they will have a body, this body will be the same as Adam's body before he sinned, so immortal. These Gentiles who consist of all the nations of the world are called the "righteous ones".

    Revelation 7:1-9:

    The Jews:

    4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
    5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
    6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
    7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
    8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

    The Gentiles:

    9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
     
  5. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    It says Israel, not Jews only and from all tribes and peoples and languages in white robes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    for clarity.....

    you will be spirit?
    you will be returned to your body?
    you will be dust?
     
  7. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    What do you know about the sons of Ishmael? They are also descendants of Abraham
    Did not God say to Hajar that it is a great nation
    In Jewish belief do you think Muslims will go to heaven
    Mohammadiyim
     
  8. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

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    Yes, Ishmael and his children were made to a great people by God and they were blessed. But by the seed Abraham I mean the children of Jacob, the 12 tribes of Israel. And only the chosen children of the 12 tribes of Israel will enter heaven, for so it is written.
     
  9. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

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    The 12 tribes of Israel are the Jews. Jacob is the father of the Jews.


    "and from all tribes and peoples and languages in white robes"
    Yes, and these are the Gentiles.
     
  10. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    a "Jew" means of tribe of tribe of Judah.
     
  11. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    I want to go straight to the crem, no funeral, no afterlife, end of story.
     
  12. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    Dear brother
    Thanks for the reply and I really appreciate it
    I love the children of Israel and my most important brothers
    I don't want to bother you dude sorry
    last question
    Is there any verses in the Torah bible or the Gospel that says that heaven will be only for the 12 Jewish tribes of the children of Israel

    GOD bless you
    amen
     
  13. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Heaven , Pleroma is a complex notion, there divisions of after-Iife that one needed to 'graduate' to enter. E.g . " 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven".. The third?, how many other heavens? This is good hint that we just do not know it by literally reading the Bible that was purged for consumer.
     
  14. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

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    Before the Israelites called themselves "Jews" (at least some), they all called themselves "Hebrews".
    The term "Jew" itself originated much later.

    But where does the term "Jew" come from?
    After the settlement of Canaan, the tribes of Benjamin, Judah, and Levi founded the Southern Kingdom of Judah, the other nine tribes formed the northern kingdom of Israel.
    The northern kingdom was later conquered and wiped out by the Assyrians, but the southern kingdom remained. And after that time Judah became the province Judea, and they others started calling the inhabitants "Jews", which means "Worshippers of God".
    The term "Jew" was therefore only a term for the living Hebrews in Judah. So it doesn't matter if I say Hebrew, Jew or Israelite, all are the same. The 12 tribes of Israel have the same Father and the same faith.
    They all are Hebrews / Israelites / Jews.
     
  15. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews is genetic name, Israelites is spiritual name that means 'those who see G-d', it is not genetic.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    And here I always thought that Iranian eschatology made them batsh*t crazy.
     
  17. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    "And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy."
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    They were a Canaanite tribe that had NO land. They worshiped the Canaanite pantheon. They borrowed a lot from the Ugaritic texts on the northcoast of Syria at Ras Shamra.

    Archaeologist have unearthed a large city near Haifa .. 164 acres from 4,000 BC.
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    They were a Canaanite tribe that had NO land. They worshiped the Canaanite pantheon. They borrowed a lot from the Ugaritic texts on the northcoast of Syria at Ras Shamra.

    Archaeologist have unearthed a large city near Haifa .. 164 acres from 4,000 BC.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    There were NO "Inns"..
     
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