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Heaven Can Wait.

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
The Hereafter, if it and/or God exists, would be purely voluntary, always there for those who can face the Truth, and who understand that fulfillment means more to the soul than even fun or happiness. For those who don't, and for the evil at heart, Heaven would be an eternal Hell, causing them to seek the ever available path of dropping out through merciful oblivion.

Such an environment could be thought of as being bathed in the unavoidable light of Truth. Lying, especially to one's self, would have the painful effect of placing yourself in isolation in a purgatory of complete darkness. An enmity with Truth, in this universe, allows us to continue to make those choices that isolate us from it, while maintaining our illusions, enabling us to choose to reverse our course through repentance. After the test is over, that's no longer possible. Hell is a dark and lonely, crushing regret.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Just have to ask: was this deliberately named after the song? Lol. I love Iron Maiden.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
The Hereafter, if it and/or God exists, would be purely voluntary, always there for those who can face the Truth, and who understand that fulfillment means more to the soul than even fun or happiness. For those who don't, and for the evil at heart, Heaven would be an eternal Hell, causing them to seek the ever available path of dropping out through merciful oblivion.
Yeah. My dreams act like there's just one afterlife and your state of being determines how it plays out, like that story about heaven and hell where both sides have people with really long spoons or something, and in hell they starve while in heaven they just feed each other...
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah. My dreams act like there's just one afterlife and your state of being determines how it plays out, like that story about heaven and hell where both sides have people with really long spoons or something, and in hell they starve while in heaven they just feed each other...
The spoons in heaven and hell were long. The folks in hell tried to use each his own spoon but couldn't do it because of the length, so they couldn't eat; but the folks in heaven fed each other!
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Just have to ask: was this deliberately named after the song? Lol. I love Iron Maiden.

Actually I was thinking of the Meat Loaf song by that name. Sort of sticks to the theme that heaven begins here on earth, but then so does hell.

Yeah. My dreams act like there's just one afterlife and your state of being determines how it plays out, like that story about heaven and hell where both sides have people with really long spoons or something, and in hell they starve while in heaven they just feed each other...



The spoons in heaven and hell were long. The folks in hell tried to use each his own spoon but couldn't do it because of the length, so they couldn't eat; but the folks in heaven fed each other!

Is cooperation a heavenly quality? Are there loners there, or outlying pairs?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The Hereafter, if it and/or God exists, would be purely voluntary, always there for those who can face the Truth, and who understand that fulfillment means more to the soul than even fun or happiness. For those who don't, and for the evil at heart, Heaven would be an eternal Hell, causing them to seek the ever available path of dropping out through merciful oblivion.

Such an environment could be thought of as being bathed in the unavoidable light of Truth. Lying, especially to one's self, would have the painful effect of placing yourself in isolation in a purgatory of complete darkness. An enmity with Truth, in this universe, allows us to continue to make those choices that isolate us from it, while maintaining our illusions, enabling us to choose to reverse our course through repentance. After the test is over, that's no longer possible. Hell is a dark and lonely, crushing regret.
that was a lot in short expression.

how about...function?
the angelic will ask what you believe in
if you seem able to follow....no problem
if not....they will leave you wherever you fell

or if your belief is outrageous and inappropriate.....they might ask
who told you that?
why do you believe it?
they might then put an end to you....because the peace of heaven is guarded
and then go looking for the fellow that deceived you.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
The spoons in heaven and hell were long. The folks in hell tried to use each his own spoon but couldn't do it because of the length, so they couldn't eat; but the folks in heaven fed each other!
Or they could just hold the spoon part-way up the handle. I guess this kind of thinking is why I’m not going to heaven or hell. :cool:
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
ok...so...
where ARE you going?
I was just making a joke but if you want the serious answer, I don’t know and neither do you. I see no reason to assume any of the countless post-death destinations various people have proposed (in any of their individual and constantly-debated variations). I’m just focusing on making the best of what I do know about the here-and-now.

At least here I have a wide selection of differently sized and shaped spoons suited to any likely requirement. Maybe that means this is heaven and it only gets worse regardless of where we go next? ;)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I was just making a joke but if you want the serious answer, I don’t know and neither do you. I see no reason to assume any of the countless post-death destinations various people have proposed (in any of their individual and constantly-debated variations). I’m just focusing on making the best of what I do know about the here-and-now.

At least here I have a wide selection of differently sized and shaped spoons suited to any likely requirement. Maybe that means this is heaven and it only gets worse regardless of where we go next? ;)
ok.....for now i might nod my head....

but i am fairly certain of myself.
the angelic might draw sword and cut me down as i stand
and if they don't want to bloody their feathers.....send me to the devil
who will then say.....Oh no.....not in MY hell!
and he will do what the angelic of heaven would not

either way.....it is not likely i will walk in hell
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
The loners built robots to handle it. :)

To quote Chris,an autistic in the current movie, The Accountant, "I have difficulty socializing with other people, but I want to." I think that's an excellent rendition of most loners outlook.

or if your belief is outrageous and inappropriate.....they might ask
who told you that?

The Truth speaks for Itself.

why do you believe it?

Because, based on the God-given natural evidence, it's the closest to the Truth we can come.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
.
The Hereafter, if it and/or God exists, would be purely voluntary, always there for those who can face the Truth, and who understand that fulfillment means more to the soul than even fun or happiness. For those who don't, and for the evil at heart, Heaven would be an eternal Hell, causing them to seek the ever available path of dropping out through merciful oblivion.

That seems to contradict that the hereafter is a matter of choice. If God existed. After all, Hell counts as hereafter too, I guess.

Such an environment could be thought of as being bathed in the unavoidable light of Truth. Lying, especially to one's self, would have the painful effect of placing yourself in isolation in a purgatory of complete darkness. An enmity with Truth, in this universe, allows us to continue to make those choices that isolate us from it, while maintaining our illusions, enabling us to choose to reverse our course through repentance. After the test is over, that's no longer possible. Hell is a dark and lonely, crushing regret.

Oh dear. The logical inference we can draw here is that we should envy those poor kids who died very young, if you were right. You should rejoice when a kid dies of cancer at age two, if you really believed that.

No time to lie to yourself. No time to decide what is true or not. A free ticket to eternal bliss without any test whatsoever.

What could you ask more than that?

Ciao

- viole
 

soma

John Kuykendall
We are in the infinite and are not going to pass through infinity without making a mistake. The people who love hell are in heaven because in their peace they can deal with anything, are not afraid of anything and know that nothing happens by chance, but by choice. The mystics of every religion talk about this unity, the new physics is talking about it and the Christian mystics past and present are talking about it in the closet of the church. The problem is the church keeps it secret with a locked door that is hard to get in and out of. Thomas Carlyle, a Calvinist stated that the soul gives unity to what it looks at with love. The soul knows things the mind does not understand so no one can threaten, offend or upset us if we are standing inside it because it can go so high negativity can’t reach it.

https://www.amazon.com/John-J-Kuykendall/e/B018AK0WKY/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
.
That seems to contradict that the hereafter is a matter of choice. If God existed. After all, Hell counts as hereafter too, I guess.

I think Hell is a pure fabrication. Why would anything but a sadistic God and heavenly host want to go through eternity listening to, or at lest knowing about, all that agony going on? To me, Hell is being conscious and not being able to lie to yourself about who you are and what you did (i.e bathed in the Light of Truth), but instead of eternal sadistic punishment, you can choose oblivion


Oh dear. The logical inference we can draw here is that we should envy those poor kids who died very young, if you were right. You should rejoice when a kid dies of cancer at age two, if you really believed that.

Oh dear indeed. You've come upon the part of my ideas I otherwise try to avoid because it deals with the emotional issue of babies. In the 20 years I've been doing this, you're the first one that's noticed, or at least brought it up. But there is an answer. Think of it this way, does a one cell embryo have self awareness? If you say yes, we can end our conversation here. If not, when do we acquire it? Birth? Why? It starts, I think, during the "terrible twos", and that is the birthday of the spirit or soul. Whatever the cutoff, which may seem cruel to us, we must remember that it's the soul that we're talking about surviving, not the body. Innocents, like with the very young and animals, who are unable to discern what it means to harm another (via our self-awareness), wouldn't be capable of eternal self-awareness. it isn't an issue of cruelty, it's one of reality and Truth. Is it the embryo/body that's of value, or the spirit/soul/self-aware consciousness.

We are in the infinite and are not going to pass through infinity without making a mistake.

What does that even mean?
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
The Hereafter, if it and/or God exists, would be purely voluntary, always there for those who can face the Truth, and who understand that fulfillment means more to the soul than even fun or happiness. For those who don't, and for the evil at heart, Heaven would be an eternal Hell, causing them to seek the ever available path of dropping out through merciful oblivion.

Such an environment could be thought of as being bathed in the unavoidable light of Truth. Lying, especially to one's self, would have the painful effect of placing yourself in isolation in a purgatory of complete darkness. An enmity with Truth, in this universe, allows us to continue to make those choices that isolate us from it, while maintaining our illusions, enabling us to choose to reverse our course through repentance. After the test is over, that's no longer possible. Hell is a dark and lonely, crushing regret.

What am I supposed to do with the above? It seems to be Gnostic in nature and therefor not based on any potential objective foundation. It appears to be metaphysical speculation without any evidence given to consider. I might or might not agree with a part or the whole but since I have no evidence or scripture to consider I am unable to meaningfully consider what appears to be a conclusion minus any premise'. Can you clarify how you determined any of this?
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
We are in the infinite and are not going to pass through infinity without making a mistake. The people who love hell are in heaven because in their peace they can deal with anything, are not afraid of anything and know that nothing happens by chance, but by choice. The mystics of every religion talk about this unity, the new physics is talking about it and the Christian mystics past and present are talking about it in the closet of the church. The problem is the church keeps it secret with a locked door that is hard to get in and out of. Thomas Carlyle, a Calvinist stated that the soul gives unity to what it looks at with love. The soul knows things the mind does not understand so no one can threaten, offend or upset us if we are standing inside it because it can go so high negativity can’t reach it.

https://www.amazon.com/John-J-Kuykendall/e/B018AK0WKY/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0
Again, this sounds like Gnostic metaphysical speculation. You have not provided any rational foundation upon which to build any of the conclusions you have provided. I can not even figure out what it is your trying to say much less can I identify a premise to evaluate. What in the world is there to debate in what you provided?
 
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