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Featured Heaven - Being Reborn as Dogs/Cats

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by RamaRaksha, Dec 25, 2020.

  1. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha Active Member

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    Many people know that Hindus believe that we come back as lower life forms - bugs, animals etc

    First of all let us understand that Hindu ideas were never meant exclusively for Hindus - Hindus don't preach that way, these ideas apply to ALL of us. These are God's laws - they apply to ALL life forms on earth

    Second, being reborn as lower life forms is not a Punishment - it is what we CHOSE!

    Basically God thru Life has taught us that we get to stay a child - protected, sheltered, fed, cared for with few worries or responsibilities - for only a little while. We have to grow up, learn to stand on our own two feet, make a living and face the world on our own

    Heaven contradicts these lessons - a magic being will nicely take care of us - nothing to do, we will have no worries or responsibilities - we will be fed, protected, sheltered and cared for! Childhood for eternity!

    But such a Heaven is a fantasy - God is no Nanny - but God is not cruel. It is the easy lazy life that we want and that is exactly what we will get. As a Human being such a life is not there but as a Dog or a cat or any pet, we will get that life

    What does a Dog do all day? Nothing! It just lays about, sleeping all day. It's master feeds, protects, shelters and cares for it. Zero work, worries or responsibilities - Heaven!

    Here's the video that explains it further:

    Careful what you wish for, it will come true
     
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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    So far as I can tell reincarnation is a fantasy. According to the fossil record the first organisms to live all lived, suffered and died, and since they were the first organisms to live they can't have had previous lives for their suffering to be a result from. This is proof that bad things happen to good and bad alike, which tells us that karma - the foundation of belief in reincarnation - is false.
     
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  3. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Can I just stop you there?
     
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  4. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    There is no current scientific evidence for reincarnation.
    That said..
    Obviously within the concept of reincarnation, any soul would start it's sentient journey as a more primitive life form and progress to higher levels of sentience. So having simple life form initially is what is expected in this worldview.
     
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  5. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

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    Even in your own post you imply that to be reincarnated as an animal after having lived as a human constitutes a demotion of sorts. Demotion is punishment.

    Further, if our supreme good is liberation from death and rebirth, then to lose the human form for an animal one is movement away from that supreme good.

    No. Heaven in Christianity is the beatific vision, which can be understood as the direct experience of God in eternity. To liken Heaven to the infantile existence of a perpetual child is a grotesque caricature. It is also a hypocritical caricature, for does not the Hindu seek the escape the sufferings of cyclic existence?
     
    #5 Musing Bassist, Dec 26, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
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  6. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I suspect...
    you have to fit in....in the next life

    if not....and I haven't ruled out return to the flesh

    we get to do this again .....as if to reboot
    the slate gets wiped
    and you get another shot at becoming a spirit of grace
     
  7. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Presumably this is the case in Hindu beliefs. The term "karma" (or kamma) means volitional action, and the fruit of that action (whether or not discernable) is called "phala." All volitional actions have results. This karma/phala is not a foundation of reincarnation in Buddhist belief, because reincarnation is not a Buddhist belief.

    "Hope you are sitting down for this, but reincarnation (or ‘transmigration’) does not exist at all in Buddhism."
    - Reincarnation, Rebirth, and Buddhism: Here We Go Again - Alan Peto
     
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  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    for this thread....we had a dog
    one of those retriever types

    she would run and launch into the air for that frisbee

    she lived out her life and passed away in the arms of my wife

    I later had a dream......she had transformed....into a horse
    a beautiful black animal with a spot of white on her chin

    and if you dare to ride.....she could move soooooooooo fast
     
  9. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha Active Member

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    There is no evidence - we agree with you there - but there are plenty of vidoes on youtube where kids come up with strange stories of past lives which are immediately dismissed - that is not very scientific
    Most of the people dismissing these stories are Christians and Atheists - neither of them are going to say anything favorable
    I have to correct you on the Karma part - the word is a Sanskrit word - it means Action - basically saying our Actions determine our fate - there is no magic Accountant in the sky tallying up our debits and credits
    If we choose to drive fast on a wet slick road and get into an accident - we know that it was our choice
    A kid doesn't study, parties all day, he gets bad grades - is it a surprise
    No supernatural explanation is necessary
    Being reborn as a Dog is not a punishment - it is choice of people who chase after Heaven - the easy living
    Reincarnation says they will get their wish - the easy living is theirs - it is a choice that they made - Free Will
     
  10. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha Active Member

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    Yes that is what Hinduism preaches - but progressing to a higher level may not be everyone's cup of tea - because the progress comes pre-packaged with pain & suffering
    We see that - from a bug to a tree to an animal to human - the pain level steadily goes UP
    Walking in Rama's footsteps - always telling the Truth, being honest, always striving to do the right thing - such people will face a lot of problems
    Plus life is harsh for us humans - in the olden days life was much harsher and so people hoped for an easier life and religions like Christianity & Islam were more than happy to tell them what they wanted to hear
    What these people did not understand was that such choices come with a cost - in this case the cost of human life
    life as a tree or a bug is much, much easier - no worries, free food - Heaven
    I gave the example of a Dog so that people can relate - they can clearly see life as a Dog means being in Heaven
     
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  11. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha Active Member

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    It is also a wilful choice - much like a person dropping out of school, then finding that the only jobs available to him are menial jobs. Free WILL - you get that right? God, thru life, has taught us that we can't stay infantile children forever, we have to grow up, stand on our own two feet, make a living, face the world
    Heaven is the idea that we can stay perpetual children, someone will cater to the pleasures of the flesh for eternity
    God didn't create Heaven or Hell - Religions did
    But God is not Cruel - that is the life that we want, that is exactly the life that we will get

    We humans are animals as well - you need to study up evolution

    Every time I ask - What does one DO in Heaven? Describe a day to me - theists run away. All this talk of seeing our loved ones again, being happy all the time, chatting with angels - it seems we remain human with nothing to do but just sit about doing nothing - sort of like living in a Giant Retirement Home with a magic being more than happy to let us indulge in our fantasies

    The last part is what I want to change - Life is a Gift from God - it is not a curse
    God created this universe, this world, this earth & gave us this Life - it is not a mistake
    We belong here, the earth is our home
    But life is also harsh and so came this idea of running away and hiding in some magic land in the sky
    All that ends up doing is being reborn as lower life forms
     
  12. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha Active Member

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    That is wrong - it says there some sort of magic Accountant in the sky tallying up our debits and credits & rewarding/punishing us for them
    Karma, a Sanskrit word, literally means Action - that's it
    Our acts determine our fate - basically a student doesn't study, drops out of school should anyone be surprised that he is stuck in menial jobs?
    Guy drives fast on slick, wet roads or drives drunk - he gets into an accident - that's karma - but there is no magic man involved

    Being reborn as a Dog is NOT a punishment - it is a CHOICE! A wilful choice
    God, or life, has taught us that we get to stay a child - fed, protected, cared for, sheltered for only a little while - zero worries, zero work - then we have to grow up, move of this cozy nest, learn to stand on our own two feet, make a living
    Not just us, but ALL life forms obey this law
    But some do not have the stomach for it - some stay as children with their parents expecting them to cater to their comforts, some find shade under Sugar Daddies - praising them sky-high, doing their dirty work and are rewarded with a bone
    That is the concept of Heaven - the easy lazy life of nothing to do while shamelessly sponging of someone else

    What Hinduism is saying such a life is not up in the sky somewhere, it is right down here
    These people chasing after Fools Gold will get their wish - the easy lazy life
    But life also has taught us there is a cost to our choices & the cost here is human life
     
  13. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha Active Member

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    yes just like being in school - last year was last year - in the past - you can't go back and correct those D's or B's - you have to do better in this year or this life
    But human life may not be for everyone
    Some kids drop out of school, it is their choice
    Just like that one can drop out of life or find an easier Life form - a bug or a tree or a dog has a much easier life than a human being - a wilful choice is made - FREE WILL
     
  14. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Perhaps unsurprisingly, I believe what I have posted is a correct summary of the general Buddhist understanding of karma.
     
  15. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    I do like the idea of infinite opportunities to experience and learn from all forms of living, but if we forget past lives (and if reincarnation is happening, it does seem that we forget) it is hard to understand how lessons from previous existences translate into the present. A genuine "fresh start" is a beautiful thing - but what common thread would bind previous lives?

    From laws of thermodynamics - conservation of mass and energy etc. everything does in fact change form. Plants grow, die, decay, and the same matter and energy can be re-formed into new living entities. Conservation principles are real, the question remains what entity sticks together? Or is everything mixed together in death, and new combinations reborn? Not a bad thing to get all mixed together, the ultimate connection with everything I suppose.
     
  16. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    I do like the idea of finding "heaven" on earth. :)
     
  17. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    The Prajapita Brahmakumaris teach that each species will reincarnate within that group itself and no exchanges takes place, meaning human beings reincarnate as human beings and birds reincarnates as birds and horses reincarnate as horses without any aberration in this process.
     
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    and some forms have .....how many arms?

    and the spiritual life has rules of form?

    God is human?.....like someone's Father?
     
  19. RamaRaksha

    RamaRaksha Active Member

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    We can't live in the past - we can't correct those B's or D's that we got last year
    This year is different - we have to make the best of what we have this year
    The question you posed comes from people who still believe in some sort of Heaven - a life elsewhere & if we learn from our past life and correct those mistakes, we will get to go live in some magic land in the sky

    And as for forgetting the past, you may simply not be aware of your past life - when you are watching TV or see something and it appeals to you, ask yourself why? Why this particular thing? For eg you may get involved in teaching, giving money to help educate young kids - but there are so many other needs, why did you focus on this? It could be your past life calling you
     
  20. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    No such thing as fate.
     
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