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Featured Heaven and John the Baptist

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by savagewind, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    A reason does not make a wrong right. Does it @djhwoodwerks?
     
  2. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I don't think it is wrong for a person to join himself to the Christain Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses to learn from it. I did. I think I benefited from it.
    It is wrong to call it The Truth.
    It is wrong to switch loyalties from Jehovah to a group of men who I think aren't any different than every other religious leader.
    It is wrong to lie even if you believe what you say is true.
     
  3. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I think people should know that evil does not mean criminal. It just means wrong.
    There is a right way and a wrong way. But really, there is just one way.
    Do it right and be considered good, but do it wrong and be considered evil.
    Not by another but by The Truth.
     
  4. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I am still deciphering the Old Testament, nearly cracked it, I will then move unto the New,
    i suspect John is a play on the word Jonah ( Dove ), since later after his introduction, the heaven (Ouranos)
    cleaved and the torrents like a Dove (white snow) descend (down the Lebanese Mountain ) .. feeding the Rivers
    of the Levant.
     
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  5. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    If I say something that I believe to be true, but you say it isn't true, who would be the liar, in your opinion?
     
  6. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I don't have an opinion about that question, but I'll try.
    @metis has helped me. Neither would be the liar. Saying to someone it is a lie and saying the one telling the lie is a liar are different.

    A liar is someone who lies for profit.
    None of us are lying for profit. Or, I'm not. I suppose someone might be being paid to put bull**** on the internet, but I don't know about that.
     
  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The company of men who make up the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is lying for profit, in my opinion. The people who support them have some little or a lot of blame also. That is not my rule.
     
  8. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    How is that different? If you tell someone that what they say is a lie, you are calling them a liar, correct? I mean, you can't say, 'what you just said is a lie, but I'm not calling you a liar', can you?

    I 100% agree with your opinion!!

    I don't agree with that tho. You can't blame someone for being deceived, can you? If a witness wakes up and realizes it's a false religion and chooses to stay, and continue spreading the false teachings, they are just as much to blame.
     
  9. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I wrote a thread once about that.
    The popular opinion seems to disagree with your opinion.



    That's nice and very unusual.



    A person who is being deceived can't be blamed. A person who is willing to be deceived can be blamed. You, of all people, should know the Bible warns about that! If it isn't bad to be deceived then why are there so many warnings written about it?
     
  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The Jehovah's Witnesses seem to think that I am being misled, but I'm not going anywhere. :)
     
  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I shall take the question out of its rhetorical frame and ask you @djhwoodwerks why was it written that a believer is to beware of being deceived if being deceived is not the wrong way?
     
  12. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Verse and book?
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Ephesians 5:5
    Matthew 7:15 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
    Jeremiah 23:16
    Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own imagination, Not from the mouth of the LORD.
    Ezekiel 22:27
    "Her princes within her are like wolves tearing the prey, by shedding blood and destroying lives in order to get dishonest gain.
    Matthew 24:11
    and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.
    Matthew 24:24
    For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.
    Mark 13:22
    For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.
    John 10:12
    The hired hand is not the shepherd, and the sheep are not his own. When he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf pounces on them and scatters the flock.
    Hebrews 13:9
    Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace and not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those devoted to them. (compare John 4:34 food). Also, that it is written we are to Join Jesus for food at his table and that the faithful and discreet slave is to dispense food. So, Hebrews 13:9 can also mean spiritual food.
     
  14. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    @djh What do you think 'misleading and being misled' means?"

    I think it means that the ones who are leading are being misled.

    They are being misled into believing that how they are leading is righteous.

    Compare, 2 Timothy 4:3

    For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

    And, what are those desires? Peace and security on a Paradise Earth.
     
  15. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Obviously 2 Timothy 4:3 is translated wrong. It doesn't surprise me anymore.

    I'd tell you what I think it means, but that would be me talking into the windstorm.
    Wouldn't it?
     
  16. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Lol, I'm listening!
     
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  17. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I think 2 Timothy 4:3 said that those who would not endure in the pure teaching of The Christ (I can say personally that it is a bumpy ride!) THEY gather around teachers who (the teachers) rub their ears.

    'Rub their ears' might mean to put a personal spin on what can be understood. A sound coming in, hand in the way. If your hand is between your understanding and an idea, your hand will influence what it is you can understand.

    How it was translated is that THEY will gather around them teachers.
    To me, it says that the people who did not endure create teachers to teach them what they want to know. I don't believe that is what was written.

    Which isn't really what actually has happened.
    Am I reading the translation wrong?

    It is my experience that many people with good intentions believe they were called by GOD, not called by the people who want their ears tickled. Who would want that anyway?
     
  18. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    2 Timothy 4:3

    What it doesn't say - people gather teachers who will tickle the people's ears.
    That doesn't even make sense!

    What (I think) it says - the people gather to teachers, but the teachers that they gather to are rubbing their (own) ears.

    The people's ears aren't be tickled. The teachers' hands are on their own ears.
     
  19. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Why not someone give me just one example of a teacher that was gathered to the people by the people?

    Hahaha People can't even agree on anything and the Bible seems to say that they agree on what teacher to listen to and what the teacher should teach.
    If that was what the poor soul Paul wrote, then why didn't he just us the word for puppet?

    No teacher that I ever heard of would admit that they teach because the people made them and that they teach what the people want to hear.
     
  20. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Same meaning.

    Like people who are afraid that hell is real, they will gather around them/gather around teachers who teach that hell is not real and that there's no life after death, just to soothe their fears.

    'Rub their ears' - Same as above. I believe that some people believe they won't "be good enough" to go to heaven, and are afraid of hell, so they find teachers that teach against it so they won't have to think about it.
     
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