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Featured Heaven and Hell what is the meaning of this, who decides?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Oct 6, 2018.

  1. Dell

    Dell Asteroid insurance?

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    No doubt some did... history is full of (few) givers and (many) takers regarding the Gospel. One could hope the takers would be recognized as frauds they are and the givers lives were not taken in vain..
     
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  2. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer Member

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    You can choose to believe all kinds of ideas about heaven and hell or you can choose to believe what their creator says about them.

    God created hell to punish all those who rebelled against Him and sinned, and He created heaven to reward all those who believe in Him and obey Him.

    You can choose to listen to all the foolish fantasies people have about heaven and hell or you can believe what god says about them. God promised to reunite everyone with their physical bodies on judgement day, everyone will get their body back and their new body will be immortal and it will be impossible to kill it or die.

    So, when our souls reunite with our eternal immortal bodies we will either be cast into hell to be tormented in hell fire for all eternity or we will enter paradise to enjoy everything the universe has to offer for all eternity.

    So eternity is a very long time, this life is just a tiny speck in the scheme of eternity. Our eternal destiny is all important, so it's far more important to obey God and receive the reward of eternal life in paradise than it is to gain this whole world and be cast into hell to be tormented forever.

    Jesus Christ came into the world to earn the prize of eternal paradise for anyone who believes in Him, He freely offers His gift to everyone who trust in Him for the forgiveness of their sins. Everyone who rejects Him will have to pay for their sins in hell, so we all have a choice to make. We either believe and trust in Christ, or we pay for our own sins in hell.

    The Bible is very clear, it says that many would come before Christ on judgement day and beg for mercy but He will show no mercy. He will say, you rejected me during your life and now I reject you so that's a very sobering warning and reminder of what awaits all non believers.

    Just imagine how horrible it will be for those who are cast into hell to suffer the torment of flames for all eternity with no hope of escape or death or an end to their torment. Imagine after the first billion years to think you are no closer to the end than when you started, Satan wants everyone to think hell doesn't exist because He wants as many to join Him as possible.

    People can say whatever they want but nothing can change the truth, every single promise of God will come to pass and nothing in the universe will stop Him because He has full control of everything. That fact should cause everyone to fall on their face and repent, because nobody knows when death will come to them.
     
  3. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Can I have a scriptural reference for that please?

    Can I have a scriptural reference for that too?

    And that?

    Can you tell me where I will find this "hell" in the Bible?

    I need scriptures....

    I see so much to dread in your presentation and I appreciate your sincerity....but where is the Bible backing up what you say?

    Is fear of punishment a good motive for obeying God and his Christ? What happened to love? How can we love a fiend who tortures people forever in flames for the sins committed in a short lifetime, as the result of a sinful nature that was not their fault in the first place? Help me understand....
     
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  4. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    In the Dharmic religions, heaven and hell are considered as metaphors for the trained and untrained minds as taught by the Buddha and Anandmurti Gurumaa...

    "Monks, I know not of any other single thing so conducive to great loss as the untamed mind. The untamed mind indeed conduces to great loss.
    "Monks, I know not of any other single thing so conducive to great profit as the tamed mind. The tamed mind indeed conduces to great profit.
    – Buddha

    Mind can be demon and divine too – it can be what you make it. So choose wisely. – Anandmurti Gurumaa


    Ultimately, you can see for yourself clearly that it is the quality of the mind that creates a hell or heaven around you. It is probable that metaphors and parables were created to teach virtuous conduct among the common people in medieval times using fear of Lucifer or the devil and eternal hellfire.

    There is also a reference to astral worlds of a heavenly and hellish dimensions in Paramahamsa Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi'. It implies that the departed soul is attracted to such dimensions corresponding to the quality of his or her mind, as per his character and state of consciousness while on earth.

    So, ultimately it is the quality of the mind that counts.

    A fearful mind will attract fearful realms to itself while a pure mind attracts corresponding realms to itself.
     
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  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Judgement day as I see it is every day.

    Each day we get the chance to live as God has instructed or not to. This is the struggle we face in life.

    Regards Tony
     
  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    These are great. Mankind can benefit from that wisdom.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That's true Tony...

    31: O SON OF BEING! Bring thyself to account each day ere thou art summoned to a reckoning; for death, unheralded, shall come upon thee and thou shalt be called to give account for thy deeds. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 11

    40: O MY SERVANT! Free thyself from the fetters of this world, and loose thy soul from the prison of self. Seize thy chance, for it will come to thee no more. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 36

     
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  8. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer Member

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    That's right Tony, each day is a gift and an opportunity to repent and receive forgiveness and salvation. The great danger is that we can die at anytime, so we should make sure we are right with God so when we go we will enter eternal paradise in heaven.

    Most of us live as if this life will never end, we don't invest in eternal things. We tend to put all of our energy and worry about the things we are going to lose and we invest nothing on the things that last forever.

    Life need not be depressing, true believers should live victorious lives of celebration every day. We should always be celebrating as if we won the greatest lottery, because true believers will inherit all the riches of the universe.
     
  9. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Literary. Heaven and Hell are imaginary realms each of which express a prevailing mood in which the human mind can find itself. A pair of twin, polarized moods between which each of us find ourselves as we journey through life going always towards our death.

    Heaven is the mood of life as full of possibility and meaning in the mind for the individual knower. Hell is the mood of life as empty of possibility and meaning in the mind.

    The mind is a mysterious realm in which we know what is, remember or recall what was and imagine what was and what will be. As such it presents to us a separation from reality which is either a promise or a trap.
     
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  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Now there is another test we all face and many yet to consider this to be so.

    It is God that grants us Faith and it is God that guides our choices. That is for every single person, not only those that think they have found the ultimate Truth.

    Thus, it is what we do with the Truth we have found that becomes our test. How open are we to finding God in the hearts of all people?

    Zephaniah 2:3 "Seek the LORD, All you humble of the earth Who have carried out His ordinances; Seek righteousness, seek humility Perhaps you will be hidden In the day of the LORD'S anger."

    Isaiah 26:7-9 "The way of the righteous is smooth; O Upright One, make the path of the righteous level. Indeed, while following the way of Your judgments, O LORD, We have waited for You eagerly; Your name, even Your memory, is the desire of our souls. At night my soul longs for You, Indeed, my spirit within me seeks You diligently; For when the earth experiences Your judgments The inhabitants of the world learn righteousness."

    We may be creating hell for ourselves, all the while thinking we are of the righteous.

    Peace be with you always, Regards Tony
     
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  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see in the Bible that we become what we think. What we make of Mind with the connection we have to our heart. Or our connection of Mind to Love.

    "Do not copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." Romans 12:2

    "Whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things." Philippians 4:8

    Thus we could ask, is it in mind where Heaven and Hell are found?

    Regards Tony
     
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  12. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer Member

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    We can be certain about our salvation, God doesn't want us to live with doubt. Jesus said that He would lose none of those the Father gave Him, so Christ is the one who saves us and keeps us walking in the truth. All we need to do is trust Him and obey Him and He does the rest.

    Chris said that he would save everyone who believes in Him and obeys Him, so we don't need to worry about losing our salvation or ending up in hell. Every single true believer will be given eternal life in paradise, the only way we can lose our salvation would be if Christ fails us but He is the almighty God who never fails anything He sets out to achieve.

    So let me encourage you to be of good cheer and rejoice, because your Savior is all powerful, all knowing, all mighty, merciful and loving. We can be 100% sure that He will succeed in saving every single true believer, we are not saved by how well we have kept the law but we are saved because Christ kept the law perfectly on our behalf.

    We can be happy, no matter what circumstances or trials and tribulations we are experiencing. We are guaranteed to inherit eternal life in paradise and all the riches of the universe will be ours. Nobody can imagine how beautiful heaven is and how happy we will be, there are no words or comparisons in this world.
     
  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Heaven may be in giving all you have to others, was not Jesus the Christ such an example of what we should be doing? Could that be Gods Kingdom.on Earth as it is in Heaven?

    I see no comforts of this world or promises of eternal bliss are Heaven. Heaven may be in giving all those comforts to others, which is a heavenly action. Doing anything for self would be the oppossite of Heaven. Now the quandry, we must be somewhat self motivated, as we would perish in this life if we were not.

    To give all as Christ did, is Heavenly, to do less than that is what becomes our hell

    Regards Tony
     
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  14. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer Member

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    Christ described heaven and hell very clearly, they are actual physical places. The Bible tells us that everyone who ever lived will be reunited with their physical bodies before they are cast into hell or enter heaven.

    So we will pend eternity in our physical bodies but they will be super bodies, which won't need food and they will be perfect, super strong and unbreakable and eternal. So those who go to hell will feel the fire with their indestructible immortal bodies and those who god to heaven will enjoy heaven in the immortal super bodies.

    I know it all sounds incredible and supernatural but such is our God, He is the God of the supernatural and he is all mighty so all He needs to do is speak anything into existence. People try to limit God to their own understanding, they forget that He is infinitely greater and more powerful than we can comprehend.

    We should give God much more credence, respect, honor, praise and worship than we usually do. Most people imagine God to be a certain way and they go with their imagination, instead of believing what the Bible says about Him.
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Do you have actual Bible verses that say this?
     
  16. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer Member

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    We will have the same bodies
    There are many Scriptural reasons for believing that we will be raised with the same body that died. First, Christ was raised in the same body He had before He died. We know this because the tomb was empty (Luke 24:1-6) and because His resurrected body retained scars from the crucifixion (John 20:25, 27). Since Christ's resurrection is the pattern that our resurrection will follow (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Cor. 15:49), then we will also be raised with the same body.

    Second, this is also evident from the very meaning of the term "resurrection of the dead" (1 Corinthians 15:13, etc.). The phrase means: that which is dead (namely, our body) is made alive. If the same body that died is not the body that was raised, Paul could not call it the "resurrection of the dead." It would not be a resurrection at all.

    Third, the phrase "the dead will be raised" (1 Cor. 15:52) also communicates this. John Piper comments on this verse that, "If God meant to start all over with no continuity between the body I have now and the one I will have, why would Paul say 'the dead will be raised'? Why would he not say, 'the dead will not be raised (since they are decomposed and their molecules are scattered into plants and animals for a thousand miles) and so God will start from scratch'? He did not say that, because it is not true" (Future Grace, 372).

    Fourth, Philippians 3:20-1 says that our earthly body is transformed into conformity with Christ's body in the resurrection, not that God creates a new body from scratch: "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself."

    Fifth, Jesus speaks of the resurrection as involving the coming forth out of tombs, which strongly indicates that the resurrection is the reanimation of the body that had been lied to rest originally: "An hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29).

    Sixth, Paul's statement "it is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body" (1 Corinthians 15:42) establishes that there is a continuity between our current body and our resurrected body, for it is the same "it" in both cases.

    Seventh, verse 53 indicates that the same body we have now (which is mortal), will become immortal: "For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."
     
  17. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    That is a very true statement.

    Regards Tony
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    It is really all in how you interpret those verses.

    1Cor 15 does not have the resurrected Jesus with a body. That Jesus was raised up means His spirit was resurrected, brought back to life. If Christ’s spirit was not brought back to life, then your faith would be in vain and you would still be in your sins. “22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” means that all shall be made spiritually alive, not physically rise and be alive in bodies. That does not mean Jesus’ soul (spirit) was brought back to life (because the soul cannot die, so it does not need to be brought back to life); it means that the Cause of Christ (what He taught and represented) were brought back to life after three days... Had it NOT been brought back to life you would still be in your sins because it was the Cause of Christ that needed to be brought back to life in order to save people from their sins... People needed to get the Gospel message that Jesus taught and the disciples needed to carry that far and wide. Their faith in Jesus needed to be renewed (resurrected).

    In 1 Corinthians 15:12-22, Paul was referring to a spiritual resurrection. That Jesus was raised up means His spirit was resurrected, brought back to life. If Christ’s spirit was not brought back to life, then your faith would be in vain and you would still be in your sins. “22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” means that all shall be made spiritually alive, not physically rise and be alive in bodies.

    16 For if the dead rise not and 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead refer to Christ’s spiritual resurrection, not to anyone rising from graves

    “According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

    Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.”
    Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 222

    According to my interpretation, the following verses are referring to a spiritual resurrection, rising to spiritual life, not to physical life. The graves from which they arise are the graves of ignorance of spiritual life.

    John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    John 11:23-27 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

    Baha’u’llah concurs with Jesus about spiritual life and spiritual death.

    “Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
     
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  19. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I do not believe you can frighten a man into heaven
     
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    born.....is the past tense of .....to bear

    we are born into this world and delivered into the arms of someone who cares

    we leave this world ...naked
    we stand before God and heaven unable to hide what we have become

    Who will bear you up?
    Who will teach you the language?
    the territory and the scheme of things?

    yeah ....you must be born.....again
     
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