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Heaven and Hell: The Right to Chose a Third Option

H

Horia Plugaru

Member
According to mainstream versions of monotheistic religions, the present life is a test, set forth by God, that can only end in an eternal afterlife in heaven or hell for each human being. I think that it is fundamentaly unfair to be forced to take part in such a test and there should exist a third option - to not take part in it.

Let us say there is a test which, if passed, grants the winner a massive financial prize and the guarantee of a long and healty life. However, if failed, the result is torturous death. All things being equal, is it fair for another person to sign me up for this test without having my consent? Certainly not. It is my right to chose if I want to be tested in such a way or not.

However, according to mainstreem theism, I do not have that right. I didnt ask to be born and I do not have the option to not take part in it by chosing, say complete annihilation after death. Therefore, mainstream theism is unfair and so the `mainstream` God cannot exist.

What do you think?
 
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The Emperor of Mankind

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Horia Plugaru said:
According to mainstream versions of monotheistic religions, the present life is a test, set forth by God, that can only end in an eternal afterlife in heaven or hell for each human being.
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I think it might be good for you to research monotheist religions beyond the ones you've experienced directly. Not all of them are the same; and not all have the same afterlife punishment for non-believers.
 
H

Horia Plugaru

Member
A Greased Scotsman said:
I think it might be good for you to research monotheist religions beyond the ones you've experienced directly. Not all of them are the same; and not all have the same afterlife punishment for non-believers.
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I am well aware of such minority positions as Universalism or Annihilationism. However, I am talking about the most popular religious beliefs.
 
Kilgore Trout

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Horia Plugaru said:
According to mainstream versions of monotheistic religions, the present life is a test, set forth by God, that can only end in an eternal afterlife in heaven or hell for each human being. I think that it is fundamentaly unfair to be forced to take part in such a test and there should exist a third option - to not take part in it.

Let us say there is a test which, if passed, grants the winner a massive financial prize and the guarantee of a long and healty life. However, if failed, the result is torturous death. All things being equal, is it fair for another person to sign me up for this test without having my consent? Certainly not. It is my right to chose if I want to be tested in such a way or not.

However, according to mainstreem theism, I do not have that right. I didnt ask to be born and I do not have the option to not take part in it by chosing, say complete annihilation after death. Therefore, mainstream theism is unfair and so the `mainstream` God cannot exist.

What do you think?
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I see no evidence that, if there is a god, that it values fairness in any way.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Horia Plugaru said:
According to mainstream versions of monotheistic religions, the present life is a test, set forth by God, that can only end in an eternal afterlife in heaven or hell for each human being. I think that it is fundamentaly unfair to be forced to take part in such a test and there should exist a third option - to not take part in it.
Click to expand...
Evidently you believe god is fair. He ain't.

Let us say there is a test which, if passed, grants the winner a massive financial prize and the guarantee of a long and healty life. However, if failed, the result is torturous death. All things being equal, is it fair for another person to sign me up for this test without having my consent? Certainly not. It is my right to chose if I want to be tested in such a way or not.
Click to expand...
One might think so, but it's not. It's how god set up the rules. Either you get on board or you suffer for eternity.

However, according to mainstreem theism, I do not have that right. I didnt ask to be born and I do not have the option to not take part in it by chosing, say complete annihilation after death. Therefore, mainstream theism is unfair and so the `mainstream` God cannot exist.
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Only if you require god to grant you that right. But in as much as you have no say-so in his existence you're stuck with him, as are we all (if you believe all the stories about him).


.
 
H

Horia Plugaru

Member
Skwim said:
Evidently you believe god is fair. He ain't.


One might think so, but it's not. It's how god set up the rules. Either you get on board or you suffer for eternity.


Only if you require god to grant you that right. But in as much as you have no say-so in his existence you're stuck with him, as are we all (if you believe all the stories about him).


.
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Theists believe that, not me.

Yes, it is how God set up the rules. And I argue that the rules are not fair and so a morally perfect God does not exist.

PS: I would like to see how THEISTS respond to the OP.
 
Akivah

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Horia Plugaru said:
According to mainstream versions of monotheistic religions, the present life is a test, set forth by God, that can only end in an eternal afterlife in heaven or hell for each human being.

{snip}

What do you think?
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I think you don't know Judaism. We don't have a concept about an eternal hell in our religion.
 
H

Horia Plugaru

Member
Kilgore Trout said:
Maybe their god has a different concept of what fairness is. His followers often seem to.
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Well, all that my argument requires is that a moral responsible agent should not be forced to make only certain choices with regard to his own future pleasure/pain if others are or could be available, all things being equal.
 
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H

Horia Plugaru

Member
Akivah said:
I think you don't know Judaism. We don't have a concept about an eternal hell in our religion.
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Judaism does not have a well-developed view on hell, but you do have Daniel 12:2 -- "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence".
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
Horia Plugaru said:
Judaism does not have a well-developed view on hell, but you do have Daniel 12:2 -- "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence".
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That's false. Judaism has quite a developed view on Hell as well as a different understanding of that verse.
 
H

Horia Plugaru

Member
Tumah said:
That's false. Judaism has quite a developed view on Hell as well as a different understanding of that verse.
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OK, fine. Now can we please return to the OP? Does God, according to Judaism, test us in this life? If yes, is there an option in Judaism to not take part in this test?
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
Horia Plugaru said:
OK, fine. Now can we please return to the OP? Does God, according to Judaism, test us in this life? If yes, is there an option in Judaism to not take part in this test?
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Sure. Take a knife to your wrists. Or if you prefer, a rope to the neck.
 
H

Horia Plugaru

Member
Tumah said:
Sure. Take a knife to your wrists. Or if you prefer, a rope to the neck.
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:) Regardless of whether suicide is a sin in Judaism or not (if it is, I still go to hell), if this is the only other option, it is still unfair. Why can`t I have the right to chose between not taking the test and live a full earthly life? Would you consider it fair if I were to sign you up at a test or contest without having your consent and then tell you that you can avoid it only by commiting suicide?!
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
Horia Plugaru said:
:) Regardless of whether suicide is a sin in Judaism or not (if it is, I still go to hell), if this is the only other option, it is still unfair. Why can`t I have the right to chose between not taking the test and live a full earthly life? Would you consider it fair if I were to sign you up at a test or contest without having your consent and then tell you that you can avoid it only by commiting suicide?!
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Would you consider it fair, if you built a race track and someone decided they wanted to have a picnic in the middle of it?
 
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