Heaven and Capitalism

[Wildswanderer]

can heaven be compatible with capitalism?


can self serving be compatible with peace; when self is profiting off of the needs of other as self?


can promoting division bring about harmony? can all ever be as one under such a state?

"Behold, what I have seen to be good and fitting is to eat and drink and find enjoyment in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of his life that God has given him, for this is his lot. Everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them, and to accept his lot and rejoice in his toil—this is the gift of God. For he will not much remember the days of his life because God keeps him occupied with joy in his heart."

"She considers a field and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard. She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong. She perceives that her merchandise is profitable. Her lamp does not go out at night."

"For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat."

"The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied."

"In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty."

"Whoever multiplies his wealth by interest and profit gathers it for him who is generous to the poor."

"Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ."

I don't find scripture to be anti capitalism.

 

[GardenLady]

In capitalism, we're compelled by desire, as opposed to
other systems wherein threat of prison compels work.
And we get to choose which work & for whom.

This level of choice is a fiction for large swaths of people. It’s easy to say that if people are underpaid or unhappy they can just go get another job or do something else. In practice, many do not have the opportunity to make such choices due to lack of available options where they live, lack of means to move, lack of education or training or the means to obtain it, and so on.

 

[Stevicus]

can heaven be compatible with capitalism?

I guess it would depend on whether Heaven actually exists.

can self serving be compatible with peace; when self is profiting off of the needs of other as self?

No, predatory behavior is not compatible with peace. Capitalism is the root of all dissension, crime, violence, and war. "Money is the root of all evil."

can promoting division bring about harmony? can all ever be as one under such a state?

No, the state must be the supreme power, in order to protect the innocent from predatory capitalists.

 

[F1fan]

can heaven be compatible with capitalism?


can self serving be compatible with peace; when self is profiting off of the needs of other as self?


can promoting division bring about harmony? can all ever be as one under such a state?

Well, this is vague. Capitalism isn't necessarily heartless. Costco is an example. Patagonia is another example. Capitalism tends to be be what a company cab get away with legally, or on the fringe of legality. This is why lobbyists are very important, and bad for the nation.

 

[Revoltingest]

This level of choice is a fiction for large swaths of people. It’s easy to say that if people are underpaid or unhappy they can just go get another job or do something else. In practice, many do not have the opportunity to make such choices due to lack of available options where they live, lack of means to move, lack of education or training or the means to obtain it, and so on.

Lack of choice is a dysfunctional illusion afflicting many people.
Some just don't choose to rise above their station. It takes drive.
I've seen many with it. They improved their jobs.
I've seen many without it. They often complain about their lot,
but don't do anything about it, eg, show initiative, work more,
seek training.
Can't blame capitalism for settling for a default situation.

 

[GardenLady]

”Money is the root of all evil."
.

common misquote. “Money is the root of all kinds of evil.” Not all evil.

We say things like “such-and-such causes all kinds of problems.” That doesn’t mean that All problems are caused by such-and-such.

 

[Revoltingest]

Capitalism is the root of all dissension, crime, violence, and war.

Socialists love to claim that.
They're like believers who blame atheists for all those things.
They be all like....
"Who do I hate...It's all their fault!"

Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Amin, Castro, Kim Jong Un, Stalin, John Wayne Gacy.
All thought to themselves...
"Capitalism...It make me wanna go out to kill & oppress a bunch'o people!"

"Money is the root of all evil."

Good luck with barter....or do you oppose even that?

 

[Stevicus]

Socialists love to claim that.
They're like believers who blame atheists for all those things.
They be all like....
"Who do I hate...It's all their fault!"

Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Amin, Castro, Kim Jong Un, Stalin, John Wayne Gacy.
All thought to themselves...
"Capitalism...It make me wanna go out to kill & oppress a bunch'o people!"

More projection, but no arguments for me to address here.

Good luck with barter....or do you oppose even that?

Why do you even bother asking me anything? You never read the answers, and you never have any responses to my arguments. You seem to want to engage me in discussions on this topic from time to time. However, while I put in an honest effort, you just come back with tired old canards, throwaway one liners, and then bail out of the discussion anyway.

 

[Revoltingest]

More projection, but no arguments for me to address here.

You offered none.
I returned the favor.

Why do you even bother asking me anything?

I didn't ask you a question.
(It was rhetorical.)

You never read the answers, and you never have any responses to my arguments.

I saw no argument.
But I showed your claim to be the same kind made by some believers about atheists.
You know....blaming one's philosophical foe for all the world's ills.

 

[Stevicus]

You offered none.
I returned the favor.

I wasn't even addressing you in that comment. I was answering the OP's question. The OP asked if peace was compatible with capitalism. I said that it wasn't, and I explained the reasons why. You could have ignored it or addressed it in earnest, but you chose to do neither.

At least, I can back up what I say. Of course, it might mean writing long walls of text which you seem to detest so much and will ignore anyway.

I didn't ask you a question.
(It was rhetorical.)

But you were still trying to elicit a response, weren't you?

I saw no argument.
But I showed your claim to be the same kind made by some believers about atheists.
You know....blaming one's philosophical foe for all the world's ills.

I think it takes one to know one.

But setting all that aside...

While you didn't seem to say it explicitly, I take it that you disagree with my view that capitalism is the root of all dissension, crime, violence, and war. I also repeated a famous quote about money being the root of all evil, although @GardenLady was gracious enough to correct me on that. I take you don't agree with either the misquote or the corrected version.

I wasn't just blaming a philosophical foe, nor does this have anything to do with you or anyone else here. This isn't a personal thing. I have long held this view about capitalists, corporatists, and the political factions which are aligned with them.

I think you misunderstand me. What you have called praise for the USSR, I would view as a warning to capitalists of today to be mindful of history. That's all. I don't really want to eliminate capitalism altogether. I only think it should be restrained, ensuring for more equitable distribution with the lower classes.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wasn't even addressing you in that comment.

I thought your dubious claim was worth commentary.

 

[Stevicus]

I thought your dubious claim was worth commentary.

If you think it's dubious, then answer me this: How many wars of conquest were started by capitalist countries? How many started by socialist countries?

At least if we're looking at U.S. military history, every single war we've entered was originally due to some capitalist-related reason. In most cases, we were fighting other capitalist enemies.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you think it's dubious, then answer me this: How many wars of conquest were started by capitalist countries? How many started by socialist countries?

At least if we're looking at U.S. military history, every single war we've entered was originally due to some capitalist-related reason. In most cases, we were fighting other capitalist enemies.

You claim capitalism is responsible for the wars,
but you don't acknowledge politics & conquest.
I cannot dissuade you from an all consuming
anti-capitalist lens.

 

[Stevicus]

You claim capitalism is responsible for the wars,
but you don't acknowledge politics & conquest.
I cannot dissuade you from an all consuming
anti-capitalist lens.

I don't acknowledge politics and conquest? What are you referring to?

Greed, power, land, profits - these are the reasons national leaders wage war. It was never about making the world safe for democracy.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't acknowledge politics and conquest? What are you referring to?

Greed, power, land, profits - these are the reasons national leaders wage war. It was never about making the world safe for democracy.

You blamed capitalism.
I see different causes.
BTW, you still don't provide any argument.

 

[Stevicus]

You blamed capitalism.
I see different causes.
BTW, you still don't provide any argument.

Well, every war is different, but if you look at the root cause, capitalism is there, in one form or another. How could it not be? Peasants don't start wars. Workers don't start wars. They don't have the political power to do so. They don't have the means to raise armies. They don't have any real reason to fight people from other countries who never did anything to them.

 

[oldbadger]

can heaven be compatible with capitalism?

can self serving be compatible with peace; when self is profiting off of the needs of other as self?

can promoting division bring about harmony? can all ever be as one under such a state?

Where are the Christians?

Mark {4:18} And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, {4:19} And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Mark {10:23} And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! {10:24} And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! {10:25} It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, every war is different, but if you look at the root cause, capitalism is there, in one form or another. How could it not be? Peasants don't start wars. Workers don't start wars. They don't have the political power to do so. They don't have the means to raise armies. They don't have any real reason to fight people from other countries who never did anything to them.

Peasants don't start wars, eh. Well, spluh!
Their leaders do, eg, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Muhammed.

 

[Stevicus]

Peasants don't start wars, eh. Well, spluh!
Their leaders do, eg, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Muhammed.

When? (Leave out the last person on your list.)

 

[Revoltingest]

When? (Leave out the last person on your list.)

Irrelevant question & request.
No acknowledgment of non-capitalist warmongers.
Nor acknowledgment of capitalists waging war
for non-capitalist reasons, eg, US v Afghanistan, Iran, etc.