1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured He is Risen - The Evidence

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by nPeace, May 20, 2021.

  1. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    5,844
    Ratings:
    +294
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    When I was gas burning irradiated what I saw gave me understanding of the human Jesus event.

    Reason humans write other spiritual experiences just as humans. Attacked in life since the Jesus event.

    Phenomena changes conditions to the gas.

    A gas in science terms of old is spirit as against a solid reference as God stone earth. Reason earth is the product beginnings of science.

    No human argument allowed about God statement as it is true. Reasoning don't argue scientist.

    I saw as my head brain chemical burnt in intense prickling brown and black smoking wisping outside.

    Crown of thorns idea I said. Prickling. Unlike my brother my blood cells did not change. Once only seeing silver metal ball did my uterus unnaturally activate bleeding.

    Spirits arise. I saw it.

    Alien looking image.
    Stone like human statues appeared in image.
    Human men spirits wearing clothing of the past appeared constantly.

    Manifested in cooling floated off then disappeared.

    To an irradiated mind it was real. Only the humans attacked saw it reality.

    Meanwhile hearing the voice of American Native Indian father DNA owner historic in America say man son of humans attacked losing DNA history.

    Reason the bible was written as it is ONLY phenomena of causes is not science but is being reviewed today as if it were involving temple pyramid use transmitting status.

    Just to remind science they were not using the UFO effect which was the earth's owned activated attack. Tomb of dead not alight stone spirit removed leaving sink holes effect.

    As stone gases came alive alight burning activated.

    The tunnel they were using was not old sink holes it was in the machination design pyramid.

    Today science man memory remembers life's attack. In the beginning science life was not being attacked. Memory human quotes science of this practice first was safe.

    The end not his reaction had changed God the earth.


    Reasoning science does not originally own any holding of energy or gas in his natural living conditions. Man life.

    Human commonsense phenomena was never science.
     
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,483
    Ratings:
    +2,829
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    No. You do not see that in the OP. Nor do you see it in anything I wrote.
    You are not burying your head in the sand also, are you?
    I hope not, because that's not reasonable, and the OP provides a reasonable approach to looking at the evidence for the resurrection.
     
  3. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    5,844
    Ratings:
    +294
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    A man is only. Human. I am a female human. I know as father and mother created my being and yours brother.

    A human is only a human. Living within water oxygen heavens. Nothing like stone.

    So a man's spirit did not begin nor was it resurrected out of stone.

    I lived through and survived irradiation.

    I learnt.

    My brother bled unnaturally in his attack. Hence obviously his mind state not as mine was. Worse. My attack Higher perceptive.

    Science by man thinking status is a liar.

    Your thoughts did not own nor form created creation. The basic truth to lying and egotism.

    In the heavens gas irradiation crown of thorns physical condition he saw visionary phenomena as a human. Above our heads transmitted via cloud conditions.

    Surely all your Ai and data cloud imaged you formed in transmitting conditions from satellite studies and human mind contact now has proven you wrong.

    Above us as below says the God status about conditions.

    Gases burnt. Gases cooled is where visionary image spirits and stories formed.

    Bible said no man is God and you brother wrote that document.
     
  4. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    11,181
    Ratings:
    +9,058
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It is all I see in the OP.
    Your thread title states that it is about evidence for the resurrection.

    On the topic of the resurrection, all you have to offer are bible quotes.

    You know, saying things like "What we know : The Facts" and then following that up with "the bible says...", does not make what the bible says a fact.

    As a matter of fact.............. the resurrection is a claim of the bible, which is the claim your argument is supposed to address. And then you quote from the bible as if it is fact, to support claims of the bible.

    Circular argument is circular.

    Nope. I'm merely observing that where you are supposed to actually provide evidence for biblical claims, you are instead just pointing to more biblical claims (which themselves are also unsupported, off course).

    So indeed, just like I said the first time, your "evidence" seems to consist of "the NT authors believed it".

    Circular arguments, aren't reasonable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    5,844
    Ratings:
    +294
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Science.

    Observed.

    Chooses subject to discuss.

    Phenomena is seen due to science causes. Practicing artificial converting of mass produced an artificial change.

    Along with human life bodily changed given a title stigmata.

    Cell blood body changes whilst phenomena was witnessed above us raised in the heavens over the peaks of the mountain.

    In the clouds the images of man were seen says the bible.

    On the internet clouds photographed show the man images on the cross in clouds.

    We live on the ground as humans walking around. The man body human demon strata the effects.

    Wood to man life compared by a scientist wood owns a carbon mass that bio cells do not.

    In science wood exists is owned formed. To discuss wood involving ark of stone covenant and ark of wood stated stone already existed so did wood.

    The obvious question what changes did man cause in science by thesis cause.

    As today he seemingly says he knows what form stone was before it became a planet in theory.

    A scientist today is the same scientist as in his past. Claims I know. When you know you don't know. It's all theory.
     
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,483
    Ratings:
    +2,829
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    The facts are 1) The Bible did say it. 2) The characters in the Bible oftentimes are confirmed - including Paul. 3) The events in many cases match up to confirmed historical accounts, as was shown from earlier historians. (Some I refered to)

    So looking at things from a reasonable perspective (which is what I said), one has no reason to claim that there is no evidence, and these are not facts, because they include activities and events one denies, or disbelieves.

    The other thing is, I refered to outside the Bible, namely events that took place, and are taking place, which are in agreement with the claims of those in the Greek scriptures.
    The people living in the first century, could relate to the things that were writen and prophesied before, in the Hebrew texts.

    Are you saying all that Jewish history is lost, just because you don't believe it.
    I would say it's lost on you, but not on the early historians.
    I would say it is an unreasonable position, and one of burying one's head in the sand.

    People buried their head in the sand, to dismiss Hezekiah from history too. A flood of evidence washed the sand away, and they had no choice but to look and hold their head in shame. :blush:
    That pattern will continue, until...
    [​IMG]

    I can't change that. :shrug:
    I don't expect this thread, or any other on RF to change that either. I am just stating the facts.
    the rest is up to you guys.
    [​IMG] .


    You observed that?
    Then I suggest you haven't been following along very well.... Or you are doing as illustrated above.

    No they don't. Please.... I notice this is your general pattern. I wonder what you do read, when you join a thread.

    Do you mean like the evolution theory?
    [​IMG]
    I would agree, but you will have to point out where I did that in this thread. Don't just make the claim.
    That's not reasonable. Is it.

    By the way, how are you defining evidence?
     
  7. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,970
    Ratings:
    +6,060
    That's why I said by the same standard of evidence, Muhammad must have actually ascended into heaven.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    5,844
    Ratings:
    +294
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Science expressed by the living human. Men invented sciences terms for humans.

    Conscious self status said. I however never asked another human to invent science for humans.

    In the reality a human virtually said science for humans as if science owned human presence.

    When consciousness is the human spiritual taught topic.

    Why human thinkers in science lied.

    O planet stone formed in space.

    A human knows their spirit never arose out of stone. Beyond owned presence its end stone is sealed. Tomb stone owned it's spirit not burning alive alight. Science said gods body deceased not light alight.

    Advice to reason logic.

    Science says hence the human was not resurrected out of an opened emptied earth mass spirit. Stone as the tomb status. God's owned spirit one is stone. The spirit left is stated.

    Man never owned god. Man in science however removed gods status as stones presence and formed sink holes in science. The empty tomb.

    Science then said confessed how man re resurrected the sacrifice of life. As it was brought to his attention he had been destroying converting earths mass form.

    He had been previously sacrificing life...without spirit of stone opening into sink holes so ignored the human being life warnings. Witnessing life being health destroyed. Realised how evil converting earth mass was only when sink holes emptied tomb appeared.

    Seeing earth as God supported human beings highest existence presence and health is a commonsense reasoning to stop nuclear science.

    History is sciences own man reflection today.... look how evil you are to disbelieve in your own humanity. Ignore their warnings in body attacked harm and pleas to stop causing it up until the God body proved you wrong!

    Nuclear science is not a safe practice.
     
  9. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,945
    Ratings:
    +641
    Paul is real. His claim of a risen celestial being is not demonstrated to be true. There are many events that are also likely to be not true. Earthquakes, resurrected Saints, missing bodies from a tomb. No evidence.
    There are also many OT stories that do not match archeological evidence.
    So you are the one burying your head in the sand while attempting to claim this position on others.

    Some historical accounts mentioned Christians. Pliny the Younger called them ""contagious superstition".

    As far as the gospel narratives are concerned there simply is no evidence. The Greek and Hindu myths also wrote in real places, real wars and real people to mix with the stories of Gods. This does not mean they were real.
    They also gave demigods historical settings, siblings and they interacted with people. That doesn't make Hercules real or any other myth.

    Some people chose to believe the gospels based on faith. 1st century apologist Justin Martyr had to explain that while Jesus looked like all the other myths this was the real version.
    But many considered it a myth. The letters of Bishop Ignatius clearly show he knew about Christians and others who believed the stories were myth. It's all over his letters in the 2nd century:

    "Let my spirit be counted as nothing for the sake of the cross, which is a stumbling-block to those that do not believe, but to us salvation and life eternal."

    Those Christians ideas are no longer here to examine because anything hat didn't follow what Ignatius and those who came into power was destroyed and the people were killed as heretics.
     
  10. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    11,181
    Ratings:
    +9,058
    Religion:
    Atheist
    On a winged horse, of all things!
     
  11. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    11,181
    Ratings:
    +9,058
    Religion:
    Atheist
    By that logic / standard of evidence, if a man named Peter Parker exists and lives in Manhattan, then that person must be Spiderman.

    And Muhammed flew to heaven on a winged horse.

    Each claim falls and stands on its own merrit.
    Even if you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt (which you can't, btw) that Jesus is historical and was crucified in the exact way as the bible claims, that does NOTHING to support the separate claim of he resurection.

    Otherwise, if a Peter Parker exists in Manhattan, that person should be considered to be Spiderman.

    None of which do anything to support the resurrection claim, which is what your post is actually about.

    I'm saying you haven't given a shred of evidence for the claim you are supposed to be supporting.

    :rolleyes:

    I already did.
    Others did as well.

    Those things that directly support a claim and which can be independently verified by others in an objective manner.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    5,844
    Ratings:
    +294
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Logic a human is real not by a name but by inference of a name the quote being human.

    Using titles does not mean a human self. A title is a subject.
     
  13. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,970
    Ratings:
    +6,060
    Why not? It's written down after all. :rolleyes:
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,483
    Ratings:
    +2,829
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    This all sounds familiar.
    Here is the evidence in the form of fossils and artifacts.
    Introduction to Human Evolution | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
    Watch the video. Look at the skulls as Dr. Potts raises them. Look at the gradual change. Can you see it?
    Of course we can.
    In the same way we can see the gradual change here.
    shapes.png
    So by that logic / standard of evidence...

    evidence -
    (n) the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent

    I have presented the facts... and the evidence.
    You don't have to believe. I don't believe what you believe either.

    Oh, by the way, using Spiderman is a lousy analogy, since 1) no one ever claimed to be an eyewitness that there was a radioactive spider that could alter DNA to the point where the man became super. 2) There is no need to examine any facts presented for Spiderman being anything other than what it is.
    Where do you come up with these arguments.
     
  15. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,945
    Ratings:
    +641

    Then use any demigod because most were set in history and have earthly stories, interact with people, do miracles die and resurrect.
    Krishna was born in Mathura India, had a childhood similar to the Jesus Infancy Gospels, interacted with people, died and came back to his celestial abode.
    They even think he was based on a real person.

    "most scholars of Hinduism and Indian history accept the historicity of Krishna—that he was a real male person, whether human or divine, who lived on Indian soil by at least 1000 BCE and interacted with many other historical persons within the cycles of the epic and puranic histories."


    Did you have any evidence that isn't completely contradicted by archeology and history?
    The difference with evolution is that the consensus in scholarship is that it's true. Not one piece of your "evidence" is supported as fact.
     
  16. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    //When you consider the quality of evidence needed to demonstrate the reality of a purported supernatural event, it seems plain that the quality of the evidence for the resurrection is not only not in the ballpark, it's on a distant continent.// What if God did it the way he did it ? Does he have to do something to satisfy you alone ?
     
  17. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    The only things I disagree on here would be ,i believe he was raised in the same physical body. ( yes a glorified one ,no less ) Because that's what it says . The other point would be, they were preaching the gospel of the ' kingdom ' which is distinct from the Gospel of grace we should preach today.
     
  18. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    9,665
    Ratings:
    +9,560
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    But the leaf shapes did evolve from each other. We have fossil evidence for this. So your leaf figure is actually an evidence of evolution of leaves.
    Evolution and Development of Leaf Shape | Accumulating Glitches | Learn Science at Scitable
    I cannot see how anybody on earth can believe that the OP you wrote can be construed as evidence for resurrection. But to each his own I guess.
     
  19. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    5,844
    Ratings:
    +294
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Men do all studies thinking comparing.

    Said Adam man story removed his origin form removing one rib out of his body. Gone.

    Said his female maths space womb cosmic science did it.

    Maths invented as a strategy of man to abstract natural form into conversion into gained energy.

    Meaning of using math.

    In modern time Jesus is compared to Adam. The same man father he says.

    A scientist. A choice.

    No one said be a scientist man.human. you chose it.

    So he said maths. Then math hew.

    + Cross 4 statements made by his man group agreed men self.

    Explaining his group choices the whole time.

    Four is earth seasons. Four seasons never existed before our saviour newly born form ICE. Born every end of year.

    Four and a new man reasoning applied. No longer did any old science have any meaning.

    Reason old science blew up. Pyramids temple.

    Knew finally he was proven ultimately wrong as the scientist.

    Reason unlike adam rib removal he
    Nearly removed life itself. The cell blood living state of human life.

    Stigmata that proof.

    In reality science owns nothing but a same human life.

    Born from two humans as parents who always preceded the baby.

    Parent and baby present and presence life.

    Death our past warning.

    Basic common sense no longer is even expressed in science.
     
  20. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    8,997
    Ratings:
    +5,584
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    No, if there's a God, then as far as I can tell we owe each other nothing,

    But IF there was an authentic resurrection, and IF there's a God, and IF [he]'s benevolent and IF [he]'s omnipotent

    then WHAT what exactly was Jesus trying to achieve

    AND

    why could God not achieve it by other means and in particular without bloodshed

    AND

    why isn't human sacrifice of its own nature wholly unacceptable, a moral abomination?
     
Loading...