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Having a faith & being religious

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Well, maybe if you didn't comment on things you don't understand, you wouldn't find yourself in this mess.

Well, if we were under your "new" covenant, made with the "house of Israel", you wouldn't have to "teach" me, your forum "neighbor", to "know the LORD" (Jeremiah 31:33-34).
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Well, if we were under your "new" covenant, made with the "house of Israel", you wouldn't have to "teach" me, your forum "neighbor", to "know the LORD" (Jeremiah 31:33-34).

If I were you, I wouldn't advertise the notion that you might not be one of God's people, since you still need to be taught to know the Lord.

I mean, I'm not the judge or anything, but that IS what it says--that those who know the Lord no longer need to be taught--and yet, here you are, requiring instruction about the parts of the Holy Bible that you deny.

Hmmm...
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
If I were you, I wouldn't advertise the notion that you might not be one of God's people, since you still need to be taught to know the Lord.

I mean, I'm not the judge or anything, but that IS what it says--that those who know the Lord no longer need to be taught--and yet, here you are, requiring instruction about the parts of the Holy Bible that you deny.

Hmmm...

Someone needs instruction. You might want to reread Jeremiah 31:33. It reads "each man" from the "least of them to the greatest of them", will "know the LORD". That does not seem to be the case, and whether Catholic or Protestant, they are all trying to teach their neighbor to "know the LORD". And like you, they all think they are one of "God's people". Per the "house of Israel", per Ezekiel 36, it is "scattered among the nations/Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:19), they are not the nations. And they have not been taken from the nations at this point, "and walk in My statutes" (Ezekiel 36:27).
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
.. Your signature line reads:
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --inscribed under the dome of the Jefferson Memorial.

Thomas Jefferson wrote his own bible, and he left out the tyranny over the mind of man, by leaving out the writings of Paul, the soul and foundation of "Christianity".
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Thomas Jefferson wrote his own bible, and he left out the tyranny over the mind of man, by leaving out the writings of Paul, the soul and foundation of "Christianity".

He left out Jesus' divinity, the soul foundation of Christianity.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
In most cases it appears that having a faith is about believing, seams to me that most belief systems have a strict code of conduct and a whole bunch of do's & don'ts.

Faith if God's gift of self, religion is the expression of and response to.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
He left out Jesus' divinity, the soul foundation of Christianity.

There is that too. Good thing that Constantine wasn't here to burn Jefferson's writings, and threaten to have him submitted for capital punishment..

"In addition, if any writing composed by Arius should be found, it should be handed over to the flames, so that not only will the wickedness of his teaching be obliterated, but nothing will be left even to remind anyone of him. And I hereby make a public order, that if someone should be discovered to have hidden a writing composed by Arius, and not to have immediately brought it forward and destroyed it by fire, his penalty shall be death. As soon as he is discovered in this offence, he shall be submitted for capital punishment....." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Good point. The only Commandments unique to God are the first three.

Good point. The only Commandments unique to God are the first three.

You must be a Catholic, who have made their own Commandments in line with worshipping the Constantine's sun god, Sol Invictus. The 4th commandment is to keep the sabbath day, to keep it holy, which is to be sign between God and his people.(Ezekiel 20:12). As "Israel" was meant to be "My sanctuary" (Ezekiel 37:28), all the commandments were meant to involve God, and Israel, as his vessel/sanctuary, such as was the case with Yeshua, who was the vessel of the Holy Spirit of God.

New American Standard Bible Ezekiel 20:12
"Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.


Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)


On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
You must be a Catholic, who have made their own Commandments in line with worshipping the Constantine's sun god, Sol Invictus.

Catholics number the Commandments after the Decalogue in Deut. 5.

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work.

These are the Commandments unique to God, the rest would be of any king of his vassals .

On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,

The first Epistle to the Christians at Corinth Paul invites the Christians to make a collection for the poor brethren of the faith in Jerusalem, this collection should take place "on the first day of the week". "And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread" Acts20:7 Sunday the 'day of the Lord'.
Nothing to do with Constantine.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Catholics number the Commandments after the Decalogue in Deut. 5.

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work.

These are the Commandments unique to God, the rest would be of any king of his vassals .

The first Epistle to the Christians at Corinth Paul invites the Christians to make a collection for the poor brethren of the faith in Jerusalem, this collection should take place "on the first day of the week". "And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread" Acts20:7 Sunday the 'day of the Lord'.
Nothing to do with Constantine.

You have misrepresented both your unknown author of Acts 20:7, which does not mention 'day of the LORD' and Deuteronomy 5:7-15, and its observance by the Roman Church.
The "son of man is Lord of the Sabbath". (Matthew 12:8), and will be king during the 7th day, the millennium. The Roman Church keeps the "day of the sun", the day of Sol Invictus holy, as required by Constantine's 321 AD decree, which represents the day after the millennium, which would be the day of judgment per the lake of fire. With regards to acts 20:7, Paul probably ate every evening, and simply collected the fat of the sheep (Ezekiel 34:3) on the1st day of the week. The Catholics in general, make no effort to keep the "Sabbath" holy. Sunday, would be the day of Bel (Lord) (Sol Invictus), the sun god of Rome. That is how they worship the "beast" and the "dragon" (Revelation 13:4).

New American Standard Bible Matthew 12:8
"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Deuteronomy 5:7-15
I. 7‘You shall have no other gods before Me.
II. 8‘You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9‘You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
III: 11‘You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
IV. 12‘Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13‘Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15‘You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

The ultimate justification for the disciples’ violation of the sabbath rest is that Jesus, the Son of Man, has supreme authority over the law. Sunday is the 'Lord's Day'.

First three commandments of the Decalogue followed by the Catholic Church.

I

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall not have other gods beside me. You shall not make for yourself an idol or a likeness of anything in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or serve them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, bringing punishment for their parents wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation, but showing love down to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

11

You shall not invoke the name of the LORD, your God, in vain. For the LORD will not leave unpunished anyone who invokes his name in vain.

III

Observe the sabbath day—keep it holy, as the LORD, your God, commanded you. 13Six days you may labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God. You shall not do any work, either you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your ox or donkey or any work animal, or the resident alien within your gates, so that your male and female slave may rest as you do. Remember that you too were once slaves in the land of Egypt, and the LORD, your God, brought you out from there with a strong hand and outstretched arm. That is why the LORD, your God, has commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

IV

Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD, your God, has commanded you, that you may have a long life and that you may prosper in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

V

You shall not commit adultery.

VI

You shall not steal.

VII

You shall not bear dishonest witness against your neighbor.

VIII


You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

IX

You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

X

You shall not desire your neighbor’s house or field, his male or female slave, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

Jews, Orthodox Christians, and most Protestants more closely follow the version of Exodus 20, while Catholics more closely follow the version of Deuteronomy 5. The main discrepancies come at the beginning and end of the lists of the Ten Commandments, as explained below:

http://www.catholic-resources.org/Bible/Decalogue.htm
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The ultimate justification for the disciples’ violation of the sabbath rest is that Jesus, the Son of Man, has supreme authority over the law. Sunday is the 'Lord's Day'.

You are confusing the lawless Paul (Romans 7:6) and his church, with Yeshua (Matthew 5:17). A bad move.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
You are confusing the lawless Paul (Romans 7:6) and his church, with Yeshua (Matthew 5:17). A bad move.

Mt 5:17
Dogs and swine were Jewish terms of contempt for Gentiles.
Rm 7:6
The apostle defends himself against the charge of identifying the law with sin. Sin does not exist in law but in human beings, whose sinful inclinations are not overcome by the proclamation of law.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Mt 5:17
Dogs and swine were Jewish terms of contempt for Gentiles.
Rm 7:6
The apostle defends himself against the charge of identifying the law with sin. Sin does not exist in law but in human beings, whose sinful inclinations are not overcome by the proclamation of law.

Per 1 John 3:4, "sin is lawlessness". Sin is transgression of the law. The results of sin is death, and Paul died. He did not escape the Law (Jeremiah 31:30), and died for his iniquities. "Swine" is generally on the plate of the Gentile. Yeshua referred to the breakers of the Law; immoral persons, murderers, and liars (Revelation 22:15), as "dogs" "outside" the "gates". That would include "Gentiles". The result of following the wide path of the false prophets is "destruction" (Matthew 7:13 & 15).

New American Standard Bible 1 John 3:4
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

New American Standard Bible Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Matthew 5:17 New International Version
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

New American Standard Bible Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
In most cases it appears that having a faith is about believing, seams to me that most belief systems have a strict code of conduct and a whole bunch of do's & don'ts.
Yes, a good observation. I think you are wondering if you can believe but not practice?

My perspective is to only believe things provably true and to reject things provably false. There is no organized religion or spiritual path based on this; rather, they all claim special revealed knowledge which members must believe.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
In most cases it appears that having a faith is about believing, seams to me that most belief systems have a strict code of conduct and a whole bunch of do's & don'ts.

Your thoughts.....

Matthew 22:37-40 Iesous said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Matthew 9:13 "But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, 'I will have mercy, and not sacrifice': for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Matthew 13:23 "But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." ... 24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock."

Faith without works is dead.
 
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