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Featured Having a faith & being religious

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Trackdayguy, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Trackdayguy

    Trackdayguy Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall

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    In most cases it appears that having a faith is about believing, seams to me that most belief systems have a strict code of conduct and a whole bunch of do's & don'ts.

    Your thoughts.....
     
    #1 Trackdayguy, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  2. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Two different things--faith and religion. Almost diametrically opposed in many cases.
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    I dont see it that way. Anyone can have faith and sit on a couch. I mean, one "dont" in The Dharma is not to steal. Do's are say meditate. The latter there are so many versions of meditation but the consesus is do it routinely and for reflection and insight. Its like brushing your teeth or eating breakfast. We dont complain thats a strict conduct of Dos and Donts. Its part of our lifstyle.

    It works for some and not for others. Nothing negative, just personal preferences.
     
  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    There's a difference between the esoteric, inner, and exoteric, outer, aspects of most religions. The outer formats are full of do's and don'ts for those who can be helped by such. The inner forms are about how contact divinity.
     
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  5. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely. Without the confusion artists would have no purpose!
     
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  6. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    See, that's the cool thing about Xianity--no strict code of conduct and not a lot of do's and dont's. Just two do's:

    DO love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind;
    and...
    DO love your neighbor as yourself.
    --Matthew 22:37-40

    Everything else is permitted, as long as you don't feel guilty about it (as long as you don't feel that it separates you from God) and as long as it doesn't cause someone else to do something that THEY would feel separates them from God.

    "All things are legitimate [permissible—and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life]." --1 Corinthians 10:23

    "But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him]." --1 Corinthians 2:15

    "I know and am convinced (persuaded) as one in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is [forbidden as] essentially unclean (defiled and unholy in itself). But [none the less] it is unclean (defiled and unholy) to anyone who thinks it is unclean." --Romans 14:14

    "Only be careful that this power of choice (this permission and liberty to do as you please) which is yours, does not [somehow] become a hindrance (cause of stumbling) to the weak or overscrupulous [giving them an impulse to sin]." --1 Corinthians 8:9

    (All citations from the Amplified Bible.)
     
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  7. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    It's a case of systems/traditions and functions.

    They're not mutually exclusive either, but often one overweights the other.
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    New American Standard Bible John 14:15
    "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Depends on your definition of religion. James 1:27, "undefiled religion", in the sight of God, is to "visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world".

    The religions of the world, run by the beast and his false prophets(Revelation 13 & 16), is to propagate the false messages of the false prophets, and eat the fat of the sheep as they do so (Ezekiel 34:3).
     
  10. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Exactly. If you love God, you don't need to worry about commandments; you will keep them automatically.
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And exactly what would be "My Law", which "I will put" "within them"? (Jeremiah 31:33). This spoken to the still divided "house of Israel" and "house of Judah", which will not be reunited until Ezekiel 37, which follows the rising of the dead for the "whole house of Israel", and them being returned to the "land that I gave to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37:25).

    With respect to your comment, if you don't keep the Commandments, you apparently do not love God.
     
  12. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I don't really think much of either of those two criteria. It is sort of self-evident to me that whatever they characterize is far from being either faith, religion or even a belief system proper.

    Faith to me is about inspiration and motivation. Belief systems proper are supposed to have some form of proposal and structure, and to comment at large about their own goals and beliefs. Religion is supposed to be about practice, motivation, and the acceptance of responsibility.

    Conduct is just that, and so are codes of conducts. They may well be necessary, but no self-respecting doctrine can think of them as very important.
     
  13. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Yeah, that's what I said. If you love God and you love others, then you automatically keep the Commandments. In those two directives, all of the Law is fulfilled.

    Basically it's your conscience. With the old covenant being based upon the physical, written law, part of the new covenant included the Law being put within us:

    "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." --Hebrews 8:10 (Amplified Bible)

    "They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts and are operating there, with which their consciences (sense of right and wrong) also bear witness; and their [moral] decisions (their arguments of reason, their condemning or approving thoughts) will accuse or perhaps defend and excuse [them]" --Romans 2:15
     
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The unknown author of Hebrews is taking a quote from Jeremiah 31:33, and it concerns the "house of Israel" "after those days". Are you of the "house of Israel"? Does each man still go out and teach his neighbor how to "know the LORD" (Jeremiah 31:34)? Are the "days", when the whole city, and whole valley of the dead bodies, not being overthrown anymore forever (Jeremiah 31:40). Zechariah 14:1-3 prophesizes that Jerusalem will indeed be captured again. And it was overthrown numerous times after Hebrew 8:10 was written.
     
  15. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Not sure where your confusion is coming from here. It's talking about the new covenant between God and man. The "house of Israel" is God's people--of which I am one. For those who know God, it is no longer necessary to teach them the Law, because the Law is within them; by loving God and loving others, they automatically fulfill the Law under the new covenant.

    Maybe some context will help...

    "But as it now is, He [Christ] has acquired a [priestly] ministry which is as much superior and more excellent [than the old] as the covenant (the agreement) of which He is the Mediator (the Arbiter, Agent) is superior and more excellent, [because] it is enacted and rests upon more important (sublimer, higher, and nobler) promises. For if that first covenant had been without defect, there would have been no room for another one or an attempt to institute another one.

    "However, He finds fault with them [showing its inadequacy] when He says, Behold, the days will come, says the Lord, when I will make and ratify a new covenant or agreement with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day when I grasped them by the hand to help and relieve them and to lead them out from the land of Egypt, for they did not abide in My agreement with them, and so I withdrew My favor and disregarded them, says the Lord.

    "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And it will nevermore be necessary for each one to teach his neighbor and his fellow citizen or each one his brother, saying, Know (perceive, have knowledge of, and get acquainted by experience with) the Lord, for all will know Me, from the smallest to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful and gracious toward their sins and I will remember their deeds of unrighteousness no more.

    When God speaks of a new [covenant or agreement], He makes the first one obsolete (out of use). And what is obsolete (out of use and annulled because of age) is ripe for disappearance and to be dispensed with altogether." --Hebrews 8:6-13 (Amplified Bible)
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I understand that your viewpoint is that of the false prophet Paul, and his assumed associate, the unknown writer of Hebrews, but you might actually go to the source, the Law and the prophets, which would have Jeremiah 31:33 included. When the "house of Israel", is given a "new" "heart" (Ezekiel 36:17 & 26), whereas you "will be careful to observe My ordinances", and "you will live in the land that I gave to your fore fathers" (Ezekiel 36:28), has not happened to the "house of Israel", which waits to be reunited with the "house of Judah" (Ezekiel 37:15-28) for that to happen. Only Judah and Jerusalem have been "restored" at this time (Joel 3:1). And as everyone tries to teach their neighbor to "know the LORD", then that "day", the day of the new covenant of Jeremiah 31:33, has not happened as of yet. Here you are, trying to teach me. I think your "new" covenant of the Law written on the heart, has not arrived. The Law starts with the Old and is revived in the "new", which is still at the door (Matthew 24:33). "Of that day" "no one knows" (Matthew 24:36). Your "new" covenant happens "after those days" (Jeremiah 31:33). The role of the "house of Israel" is clearly spelled out in Ezekiel 36:17-31).

    Double mindedness and hypocrisy (the leaven of the Pharisee), is the wide path to insanity, and "destruction" (Matthew 7:13).
     
    #16 2ndpillar, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  17. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Sorry, I thought we both had the Bible as a shared frame of reference. If we don't, then I can't appeal to its authority in establishing a Biblical position to you--and I guess we're done here.

    Have a good one!
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are using the NT bible, which was canonized through the daughter of Babylon, the Roman church, the mother of the Protestant church, who have Peter and Paul, the two horns of the beast, Constantine, as their foundation. I am using Yeshua, and the OT he used, two completely different foundation stones.
     
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  19. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    That's just for stuffy monastics.
     
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  20. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Well, maybe if you didn't comment on things you don't understand, you wouldn't find yourself in this mess.
     
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