Have you ever found a single bug in Islam?

[illykitty]

What a load of bull ****.
there have been numerous writings that far surpass the Koran.

Take the worst of Shakespeare for example.

The challenge is to make an Arabic text that mimics the Quran's style and grammar in Arabic. Hard challenge because you have to be good at many things...

But even so, if you just Google "sura like it" you find links to many sites which argue against this challenge not have been met. For the context of old times, there's ancient poets that have argued that the Quran wasn't a masterpiece. In our own time, there's a whole website that produces suras like it...

Of course though I don't know much Arabic so I can't comment on if they are good attempts but I imagine that even if they are, no one would admit this. Who would judge this? And who would ever admit that their whole lives they have followed a lie?

 

[YmirGF]

...on if they are good attempts but I imagine that even if they are, no one would admit this. Who would judge this? And who would ever admit that their whole lives they have followed a lie?

Bingo. In theory, Muslims would have to be the judge and it is unreasonable to think that they would ever seriously address any contestant and so the challenge stands - endlessly. (Which is why the challenge itself is a pretty foolish idea to begin with.)

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Bingo. In theory, Muslims would have to be the judge and it is unreasonable to think that they would ever seriously address any contestant and so the challenge stands - endlessly. (Which is why the challenge itself is a pretty foolish idea to begin with.)

The idea or claim is that, God does not allow anyone to write verses or surrahs in style of Quran unless He Himself reveals it to a True Prophet, thereby even if let's say a person has the ability to write it, God would interfere so, that doesn't happen.

 

[FearGod]

Bingo. In theory, Muslims would have to be the judge and it is unreasonable to think that they would ever seriously address any contestant and so the challenge stands - endlessly. (Which is why the challenge itself is a pretty foolish idea to begin with.)

May i ask you one question and to reply me with honesty ?
My question simply is

Are You much better than William Shakespeare in writing ?
if not can you be a better than him in one day night ?

If you reply with honesty then you may understand why the quran is regarded as miraculous.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

The idea or claim is that, God does not allow anyone to write verses or surrahs in style of Quran unless He Himself reveals it to a True Prophet, thereby even if let's say a person has the ability to write it, God would interfere so, that doesn't happen.

Sure, but it's a meaningless challenge -- like trying to get a Republican to see that the Democrat won the debate. He'll never see it. He'll never admit that the Democrat won the debate.

Likewise, a Muslim will never see that a modern verse is equal to a Quranic verse.

The game is rigged because the judge will always rule in his own favor.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Sure, but it's a meaningless challenge -- like trying to get a Republican to see that the Democrat won the debate. He'll never see it. He'll never admit that the Democrat won the debate.

Likewise, a Muslim will never see that a modern verse is equal to a Quranic verse.

The game is rigged because the judge will always rule in his own favor.

While overall I agree with your point, but the fact is, the Bab wrote verses in style of Arabic Quran, claiming God had revealed them, and many of the Muslims in His time recognized that they are indeed like Quran, and therefore they believed in Him and converted to the new faith.

 

[LuisDantas]

The idea or claim is that, God does not allow anyone to write verses or surrahs in style of Quran unless He Himself reveals it to a True Prophet, thereby even if let's say a person has the ability to write it, God would interfere so, that doesn't happen.

One must wonder how many Muslims truly believe in such a claim.

Personally, I also wonder how wise it is to value such a claim in the first place.

 

[LuisDantas]

May i ask you one question and to reply me with honesty ?
My question simply is

Are You much better than William Shakespeare in writing ?
if not can you be a better than him in one day night ?

If you reply with honesty then you may understand why the quran is regarded as miraculous.

My answer is of course "no", but I still fail to see what that indicates about the Quran.

 

[FearGod]

While overall I agree with your point, but the fact is, the Bab wrote verses in style of Arabic Quran, claiming God had revealed them, and many of the Muslims in His time recognized that they are indeed like Quran, and therefore they believed in Him and converted to the new faith.

That is silly.

Did the quran say that there will be a messenger who will write the same words of the quran,actually the supposed coming messenger is the messiah with a very clear signs that never the Bab can do.

Jesus or the return messiah should be looks blonde and red complexion and not brown as the bab was.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

One must wonder how many Muslims truly believe in such a claim.

Personally, I also wonder how wise it is to value such a claim in the first place.

To me it is Wise. What other proof should God give other than His Own True Words? Miracles? No...To me it is none-sense the All-Powerful God has to put up with the request of people to do Miracles for them to make them believe. So the idea is God has created man, in such a way that if a man is sincere, He would readily recognize the Word of His creator, as a seer who can readily see and recognize the Sun. But if that man is not sincere He would become blind by his own impurities that becomes as a veil, as a punishment that he deserves, until he purifies and cleans his heart from every bias, imitation and self desires. This is what those so called Holy Books teach IMO.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

One must wonder how many Muslims truly believe in such a claim.

Personally, I also wonder how wise it is to value such a claim in the first place.

In my view it's very unhealthy to actually believe such a thing. The mind so easily fools itself and this is an open invitation to be fooled.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That is silly.

Did the quran say that there will be a messenger who will write the same words of the quran,actually the supposed coming messenger is the messiah with a very clear signs that never the Bab can do.

Jesus or the return messiah should be looks blonde and red complexion and not brown as the bab was.

Dear feargod,
Did the Quran say that "Jesus or the return messiah should be looks blonde and red complexion"?

 

[FearGod]

My answer is of course "no", but I still fail to see what that indicates about the Quran.

I think you fail to see it because you don't want to see it.

The prophet was known as illiterate,never known to be a good writer,as i am not a good English writer or even not good as an Arabic writer.

Imagine if one day i debate you and the others with an amazing English statements without a single mistake which is even better than Shakespeare himself,will you believe that FearGod did learn how to write in English by one day night.

 

[LuisDantas]

To me it is Wise.

Really? It seems to me that it can't possibly be.

Besides making it too much of a point that God must literally exist (something that will always be a mistake by my perspective), it also makes God look like a simple magician interested in laying wards of no religious value just because.

Sure, the idea that the Quran is reliable and will always be so is valued by Muslims.

However, both in theory and in practice that turns out to be a bad thing, because it forces people who are very much at odds with each other to try and justify themselves with the Quran instead of directly with their own understandings and goals.

What other proof should God give other than His Own True Words?

Something actually meaningful, such as perhaps a continuous line of priests that actually manage to nurture and spread wisdom and understanding among their flock, perhaps.

Words are just ink on paper. They can't even conceivably ever be wiser than the living traditions and wisdom of actual religious people who exercice discernment with sincerity, skill and good will. That their worth and usefulness is limited is evidenced by the serious divisions among Muslims themselves... as well as by the insoluble dilemmas that end up being locked by reliance on scripture, as you have just illustrated by presenting the case for the Bab being validated in the Quran, just to have your claim denied.

Both the claim and its denial are arbitrary. As is only to be expected, since they rely on interpreting scripture.

I am well aware that both Christians and Muslims strongly disagree with what I just said. I can't really figure how they manage to, truth be told.

Miracles? No...To me it is none-sense the All-Powerful God has to put up with the request of people to do Miracles for them to make them believe. So the idea is God has created man, in such a way that if a man is sincere, He would readily recognize the Word of His creator, as a seer who can readily see and recognize the Sun.

That is actually a very strong argument against the existence of Abraham's God, you know.

But if that man is not sincere He would become blind by his own impurities that becomes as a veil, as a punishment that he deserves, until he purifies and cleans his heart from every bias, imitation and self desires. This is what those so called Holy Books teach IMO.

So exposure to the Holy Books is a litmus test of sorts, to tell the deserving from the undeserving?

I feel like I must have missed something. People can't very well believe in that exactly, now can they?

 

[LuisDantas]

I think you fail to see it because you don't want to see it.

The prophet was known as illiterate,never known to be a good writer,as i am not a good English writer or even not good as an Arabic writer.

Imagine if one day i debate you and the others with an amazing English statements without a single mistake which is even better than Shakespeare himself,will you believe that FearGod did learn how to write in English by one day night.

Mohammed may or may not have been unable to write the Quran on his own without Divine Guidance.

But that is a moot point, because the Quran is not nearly such a supreme book as you seem to believe. Or at the very least, its interpretations into English and Portuguese are utterly unimpressive, certainly falling way short of anything that God would want to present to me in order to make me accept his existence.

More to the point, the Quran proper is plainly (and sadly) unable of making much of an advance in promoting understanding among its believers. That, in and of itself, is all the reason I would need not to lose any sleep wondering whether it could change my life (or my afterlife) if I approached it with some other attitude.

At the end of the day, it is just one of at least three Abrahamic scriptures. And the God of Abraham is not an important matter for me. His believers are a far higher concern, and will always be.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Imagine if one day i debate you and the others with an amazing English statements without a single mistake which is even better than Shakespeare himself,will you believe that FearGod did learn how to write in English by one day night.

So do you believe that the modern Quran was written word-for-word by Mohammad?

Not a word has been changed since he wrote it?

 

[FearGod]

So do you believe that the modern Quran was written word-for-word by Mohammad?

Not a word has been changed since he wrote it?

God made a promise that the quran won't be changed and i believe that was by memorizing the quran from the beginning till our days,so it isn't kept by records only but by the minds as well.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Really? It seems to me that it can't possibly be.

Besides making it too much of a point that God must literally exist (something that will always be a mistake by my perspective), it also makes God look like a simple magician interested in laying wards of no religious value just because.

Sure, the idea that the Quran is reliable and will always be so is valued by Muslims.

However, both in theory and in practice that turns out to be a bad thing, because it forces people who are very much at odds with each other to try and justify themselves with the Quran instead of directly with their own understandings and goals.




Something actually meaningful, such as perhaps a continuous line of priests that actually manage to nurture and spread wisdom and understanding among their flock, perhaps.

Words are just ink on paper. They can't even conceivably ever be wiser than the living traditions and wisdom of actual religious people who exercice discernment with sincerity, skill and good will. That their worth and usefulness is limited is evidenced by the serious divisions among Muslims themselves... as well as by the insoluble dilemmas that end up being locked by reliance on scripture, as you have just illustrated by presenting the case for the Bab being validated in the Quran, just to have your claim denied.

Both the claim and its denial are arbitrary. As is only to be expected, since they rely on interpreting scripture.

I am well aware that both Christians and Muslims strongly disagree with what I just said. I can't really figure how they manage to, truth be told.




That is actually a very strong argument against the existence of Abraham's God, you know.




So exposure to the Holy Books is a litmus test of sorts, to tell the deserving from the undeserving?

I feel like I must have missed something. People can't very well believe in that exactly, now can they?

Well, as you also mentioned Holy Books interpretation can be done in different ways, and depending how it is viewed and understood, it can be viewed as a proof. In my view, the miracles in Holy Books like Quran and Bible have a metaphorical meaning and not literal, and they often have mystical lesson to teach, which can only be seen if they are understood in a spiritual sense.
As regards to Holy Books to be the Proof of God, that also depends how one views that. In my view God reveals His guidance periodically according to the requirements to suit the problems of its own Age just as a perfect physician that prescribes remedy for a disease, then if later a new disease come, same remedy is not given, but a new remedy accordingly is given. Holy Books are revealed for a specific time and age, for a people with certain condition and is therefore only suitable for their own time, thus, for example Quran was perfect 1000 years ago, but not in our time. Therefore to consider if Quran is perfect or not, we must only analyze it against the condition of the age it was revealed for, and not for our age. Likewise Bible or other Holy Books....therefore recognition of a Holy Book as divinely inspired depends on recognizing if this Book was indeed perfect for its own time, and that it was beyond the capacity of people in that age to write a Book like that. Then it is a matter of investigating how that Book in its own time and age effected the people that it was revealed for, all of which can be a long topic to investigate and discuss.

 

[FearGod]

Mohammed may or may not have been unable to write the Quran on his own without Divine Guidance.

But that is a moot point, because the Quran is not nearly such a supreme book as you seem to believe. Or at the very least, its interpretations into English and Portuguese are utterly unimpressive, certainly falling way short of anything that God would want to present to me in order to make me accept his existence.

More to the point, the Quran proper is plainly (and sadly) unable of making much of an advance in promoting understanding among its believers. That, in and of itself, is all the reason I would need not to lose any sleep wondering whether it could change my life (or my afterlife) if I approached it with some other attitude.

At the end of the day, it is just one of at least three Abrahamic scriptures. And the God of Abraham is not an important matter for me. His believers are a far higher concern, and will always be.

I believe that religion is what we choose and not religion is the one who choose.

It is like, what i wish to wear,is how i want to look like.

For example,Islam forbid wines,so if one loves wine then Islam won't be his choice,and still God says wine has more harm than benefit,but if you don't have a faith on those statements then you have to reject the whole quran.

A health statement says,don't smoke,it may harms your health,so if that statement doesn't match your moods,then you'll reject it and smoke.

I believe we are responsible for our own choices.

 

[FearGod]

Well, as you also mentioned Holy Books interpretation can be done in different ways, and depending how it is viewed and understood, it can be viewed as a proof. In my view, the miracles in Holy Books like Quran and Bible have a metaphorical meaning and not literal, and they often have mystical lesson to teach, which can only be seen if they are understood in a spiritual sense.
As regards to Holy Books to be the Proof of God, that also depends how one views that. In my view God reveals His guidance periodically according to the requirements to suit the problems of its own Age just as a perfect physician that prescribes remedy for a disease, then if later a new disease come, same remedy is not given, but a new remedy accordingly is given. Holy Books are revealed for a specific time and age, for a people with certain condition and is therefore only suitable for their own time, thus, for example Quran was perfect 1000 years ago, but not in our time. Therefore to consider if Quran is perfect or not, we must only analyze it against the condition of the age it was revealed for, and not for our age. Likewise Bible or other Holy Books....therefore recognition of a Holy Book as divinely inspired depends on recognizing if this Book was indeed perfect for its own time, and that it was beyond the capacity of people in that age to write a Book like that. Then it is a matter of investigating how that Book in its own time and age effected the people that it was revealed for, all of which can be a long topic to investigate and discuss.

So we need a holy book that says homosexual marriage is okay,because it goes in that direction nowadays,or enjoy sex but use condom,prostitution is okay,but test women periodically and pay them before the ****.

That will be a nice holy book.