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Have the end times arrived?

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well it definitely proves something is wrong.

I will leave it there.

Regards Tony
Only with your personal beliefs. Once again, if you could make a rational argument why do you keep failing to do so? That is very telling.

And why not listen to good advice? Your attempts to "prove" the Baha'i faith fail utterly. Instead of trying to prove it you should be demonstrating the superiority of your beliefs. Or do you not think that your faith is superior to others?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Trailblazer and @TransmutingSoul :

A simple way to demonstrate your sincerity: give all of your retirement savings to charity. Every penny, leaving nothing for yourselves.

If you really are sure that we're in the end times, then you'll be sure you won't need the money.

If you aren't prepared to do this, then we'll know you aren't that certain about your claims.

That is not my understandas to what is meant by the end times.

It is the end of an age and the beginning of a new age, much like the sun rising on a new day, or the end of winter and the beginning of spring.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
@Trailblazer and @TransmutingSoul :

A simple way to demonstrate your sincerity: give all of your retirement savings to charity. Every penny, leaving nothing for yourselves.

If you really are sure that we're in the end times, then you'll be sure you won't need the money.

If you aren't prepared to do this, then we'll know you aren't that certain about your claims.
We are quite wealthy and all our money and assets will be left to the Baha'i Faith and animal rescue organizations. That only proves we are sure of our beliefs are true, it is not proof to anyone else..

The end times is not the end of the world, it is the end of an old age and the beginning of a new age.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We are quite wealthy and all our money and assets will be left to the Baha'i Faith and animal rescue organizations. That only proves we are sure of our beliefs are true, it is not proof to anyone else..

The end times is not the end of the world, it is the end of an old age and the beginning of a new age.
I see. Redefining what the end times makes it all but unfalsifiable. In other words you just turned it into an irrational belief.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
So there are reliable observations that a Messenger did give a Message in 1844.

No only that, there were people looking for that Message, as other prophecies were showing them what to look for.

I know 1844 has now passed and I know that Islam was abrogated by a Message in the year 1260, which was 1844 and all this adds up to reasonable logic conclusions, that we can choose to expand on by confirming by other prophecy.
Who was predicted to come in 1844? The forerunner to the Messiah or the Messiah himself? Who was predicted in Islam to come in 1260? The Mahdi? Jesus? Since it was the forerunner, what are the prophecies that show that is what is going to happen?
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Who was predicted to come in 1844? The forerunner to the Messiah or the Messiah himself? Who was predicted in Islam to come in 1260? The Mahdi? Jesus? Since if was the forerunner, what are the prophecies that show that is what is going to happen?
Actually Muad dib:
alexander-modolo-final.jpg
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
@Trailblazer and @TransmutingSoul :

A simple way to demonstrate your sincerity: give all of your retirement savings to charity. Every penny, leaving nothing for yourselves.

If you really are sure that we're in the end times, then you'll be sure you won't need the money.

If you aren't prepared to do this, then we'll know you aren't that certain about your claims.
But the "end times" came and went. The "promised one" has already come and gone. Now, because the world essentially rejected the message of Baha'u'llah, we are going to go through some bad times. But worry not, when it gets real bad all we have to do is turn to the Baha'i Faith that already has a world-wide governing system set up and ready to take over and bring peace and unity to the world.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I agree that Christians have always been wrong and will always be wrong because of their Christian understanding.
So what does Judaism have to to say about Daniel 12 and the time of the end and the following verse?


Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

@CG Didymus might be interested in what you have to say as this is his favorite prophecy.
I read what the Jewish interpretation is already. It makes too much sense, so it can't be right. Some guy, Antiochus Epiphanes put a stop to the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desecration. And we know when that happened. But if we add the days made into years we don't get any dates that work in favor of the Baha'i Faith. So best not look into it and just keep ignoring the daily sacrifice and abomination thing.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I don't understand the problem. It tells you when to start counting the days. But Baha'is find better times to start counting... Here's the link.
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

1. 1,290 Days
In "Some Answered Questions" (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1984), pages 43-44, Abdu'l-Bahá interprets the prophecy concerning the 1,290 days in the following terms:

The beginning of this lunar reckoning is from the day of the proclamation of the prophethood of Muhammad in the country of Hijaz; and that was three years after His mission, because in the beginning the prophethood of Muhammad was kept secret, and no one knew it save Khadijah and Ibn Nawfal. After three years it was announced. And Bahá'u'lláh, in the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad, caused His manifestation to be known.

Note that the Master indicates that, in this instance, time is measured by the "lunar" calendar. Since the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad took place ten years prior to the Hegira, i.e., His flight from Mecca to Medina, from which date the Muslim calendar begins, the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muhammad was the year 1280 of the Hegira, or 1863-64 A.D...

2. 1,335 Days
Two Tablets revealed by `Abdu'l-Bahá which are published in "The Passing of `Abdu'l-Bahá" (Haifa: 1922), by Lady Blomfield and Shoghi Effendi, provide interpretations of the 1,335 days referred to by Daniel:

Now concerning the verse in Daniel, the interpretation whereof thou didst ask, namely, "Blessed is he who cometh unto the thousand three hundred and thirty five days". These days must be reckoned as solar and not lunar years. For according to this calculation a century will have elapsed from the dawn of the Sun of Truth, then will the teachings of God be firmly established upon the earth, and the Divine Light shall flood the world from the East even unto the West. Then, on this day, will the faithful rejoice! (p. 31)
O servant of God! The afore mentioned a thousand three hundred and thirty-five years must be reckoned from the day of the flight of His Holiness Muhammad, the Apostle of God, (Hegira) salutations and blessings rest upon Him, at the close of which time the signs of the rise, the glory, the exaltation, the spread of the Word of God throughout the East and the West shall appear. (p. 31)



From these Tablets it appears that:


- The spread of the Faith throughout the world will signal the fulfilment of this prophecy.
- The "days must be reckoned as solar and not lunar years".

- The Tablets suggest that the prophecy is fulfilled by two different dates. The first derives from the centenary of the Declaration of Bahá'u'lláh; the second is calculated from 622 A.D. -- hence, 1963 and 1957.

Thanks. I might get to that tomorrow. My laptop suddenly went haywire so I had to turn it off and log on to my husband's laptop just to look at my messages but I cannot do much else.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
What would make it flawed? If what the prophecy says will happen actually happened then it is a fulfilled prophecy, not a failed prophecy. That is the only criteria that matters -- it happened as the prophecy says it would happen.
Then prophecies are "proof"? Or, as you have said, anyone can make them say anything they want. Like the Book of Revelation has prophecies about the end times. Does it sound like they've happened? Or, are we in them now and heading for more troubled times ahead? But, in those prophecies does the "Christ" come before or after the tribulations?

So if Baha'u'llah is the "Christ", then have all those terrible things prophesied in Revelation already happened? But, if they haven't happen yet, then they have yet to be fulfilled?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I read what the Jewish interpretation is already. It makes too much sense, so it can't be right. Some guy, Antiochus Epiphanes put a stop to the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desecration. And we know when that happened. But if we add the days made into years we don't get any dates that work in favor of the Baha'i Faith. So best not look into it and just keep ignoring the daily sacrifice and abomination thing.
I.m not worried about any Jewish interpretation given they got so many other things wrong, like missing Jesus! They cannot be right because they believe the Messiah is coming just to vindicate them but he came for all of mankind. The prophecies of all the religions point to a world redeemer, not a redeemer just for the Jews.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I.m not worried about any Jewish interpretation given they got so many other things wrong, like missing Jesus! They cannot be right because they believe the Messiah is coming just to vindicate them but he came for all of mankind. The prophecies of all the religions point to a world redeemer, not a redeemer just for the Jews.
If you were a Jew would you have believed the Christians? "Hey there, have you heard the good word today? You can have your sins forgiven. Jesus died to save you and pay the penalty for your sins. Then, God raised him from the dead.." How far into it would you tell them to stop and go away?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I see. Redefining what the end times makes it all but unfalsifiable. In other words you just turned it into an irrational belief.
I did not have to redefine anything, all I needed to do was look at another Bible translation that is more accurate.

Matthew 24 ESV

Signs of the End of the Age

3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It may very well be but I found another laptop even though I can barely see the keyboard since all the keys are worn from use, since this used to be my laptop. :rolleyes:
Oh my God, girl you have to stop this. What does God have to do? Take a break. We'll all be here in the morning.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I did not have to redefine anything, all I needed to do was look at another Bible translation that is more accurate.

Matthew 24 ESV

Signs of the End of the Age

3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Uh huh. That is a question, in case you did not understand. It is not a prophecy.;
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If you were a Jew would you have believed the Christians? "Hey there, have you heard the good word today? You can have your sins forgiven. Jesus died to save you and pay the penalty for your sins. Then, God raised him from the dead.." How far into it would you tell them to stop and go away?
Please bear in mind that Christianity had not been corrupted when Jesus still walked the earth, and none of those false church doctrines existed for at least 300 years. Baha'u'llah had a few choice words to say about the Jews rejecting Jesus and it is a good thing I don't have that saved on this laptop!
 
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