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Featured Hatred of Jews is poisoning Islam

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Akivah, May 10, 2016.

  1. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/9171.htm

    These are all quotes from Egyptian-German scholar Hamed Abdel-Samad from an online lecture on March 21, 2016:

    "Today, we will talk about Islamic fascism and the Jews. We have had a fixation about the Jews since the inception of Islam, and this fixation refuses to come to an end. The Jews have always been small in number, but they cause us some mental reaction and we cannot get them out of our mind. When I was studying in Cairo, two of the most popular books that I used to see in libraries and on the streets were Hitler's Mein Kampf, which was banned in Germany because of its racism, and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which is a forgery. Without even checking, we accept it as a historical fact. This was one of the first books to be translated into Arabic in modern times. It is shameful that before translating Kant, Spinoza, Descartes, Rousseau, John Locke, or David Hume, the masters of the Enlightenment, we translated the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in order to use it to fuel our hatred towards the Jews. Do you know when The Protocols was translated into Arabic? In 1929 - before the State of Israel was established and before anyone was even thinking about it.

    Can you imagine a religion whose adherents pray every day, reciting the most important chapter in their holy book, which consists of curses towards others? Have you ever asked yourself what the verse 'those who incur wrath and those who have gone astray' means? What does it mean to pray and curse others? Imagine what would happen if the Jews, the Christians, the Buddhists, or the Baha'is had a verse cursing the Muslims. We would go to the UN and ask for this verse to be erased from their books, right? But for us it is very normal to curse others, because ours is the last religion and our Lord pampers us a little.

    Ask all the interpreters, and they will tell you that "those who incur the wrath" are the Jews, and that "those who have gone astray" are the Christians. But, of course, ours is a religion of tolerance, and Islam accepts all the religions, right? This is hypocrisy.

    Another issue that is similar in fascism, Nazism, and Islam is the view that Jews are like animals. Hitler used to call them ungeziefer in German, or 'vermin.' In Nazi publications, they used to draw them as mice. Likewise, when Muhammad had had enough of them, he called them 'apes and pigs' and 'the worst beasts in the eyes of Allah.' By 'the worst beasts in the eyes of Allah' he meant the Jews. He lowered them to a subhuman level, viewing them as animals. What do you do with animals? You slaughter it, you sell it, you ride it. This is the logic with which Islam treats not only the Jews, but non-Muslims in general.

    Some Muslims say: "We have no problem with the Jews. It's all about the Arab-Israeli conflict.' The Arab-Israeli conflict is the cause of all these crises?! The Prophet Muhammad vowed that Judgment Day would not come unless the Muslims fight the Jews. Imagine that Israel came to you today and said: "Man, take Jerusalem. Take Haifa and Tel Aviv as well." Would that be the end of our enmity with them? In that case, we would miss out on Judgment Day. Our Lord linked Judgment Day with our conflict with the Jews. The story is not about land, occupation, and rights. The source of the crisis is that we do not view these people as humans.

    Is the Mossad paying me to say these things? Am I saying this because it serves Israel, the Jews, or someone else? No. I'm saying this because this hatred is poisoning us. We have wasted vast efforts on this hatred. We have invested a lot in this hatred. This hatred prevents us from dealing with our problems in a serious way. You always need an enemy on which to pin all your catastrophes. Anything that happens to you is a conspiracy. Whenever something does not work your way, the Jews are the cause. It's much easier this way.

    We should get rid of this hatred, not for the benefit of the Jews and Israelis, but for our own sake. We should view all human beings as human beings."
     
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  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Talking to fundies I know, hatred of Islam is poisoning Xianity & Judaism too.
    It seems the nature of religions to be poisoned by conflicts.
    Fortunately, I also know Jews, Xians & Muslims who retain their equanimity in the face of hostility.
     
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  3. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Nice intentions, but IMO, misguided.

    Just one example; about half the world's Muslims say their 5 times a day prayer. So human beings are saying, FOUR BILLION TIMES A DAY, "Allah is forever angry with the Jews and Christians". What psychological model would tell you that this practice will have no bad effects?

    Saying this prayer is simply a bad habit. It's not asking a lot for people to stop repeatedly and endlessly cursing the rest of humanity.
     
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  4. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Hatred of Jews is poisoning Islam

    We don't hate Jews, we just correct the wrong concepts of the so called Judaism. Please
    Regards
     
  5. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    QED.
     
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  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    You would have to have a Muslim weigh in on what their prayers are, & what they mean.
    What I see is that there is great variation among Muslims (as with other religions), depending upon culture.
    So if some aren't peaceful, but many others are, then this tells me the religion is ambiguous.
     
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  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    And vice versa.
     
  8. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    I'm relying on the english translation that Muslims have chosen to reprint 260 million times:

    Surah 1-6: Guide is to the Straight Way.
    Surah 1-7: The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

    The daily prayer is the recital of Surah 1-1 - 1-7, the the prayer ends with the uplifting message of naming those who have earned Allah's endless anger.
     
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  9. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    That's a Wahabi version that's pushed on the world by Saudi Arabia. It's rubbish. The parts in parentheses aren't in the original. The translator, Muhammad Muhsin Khan, added those parts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Quran_(Hilali-Khan)#Criticism
    http://www.foundationforpluralism.com/quraan/Not-like-Jews-and-Christians.asp

    Since the Islamic daily prayers are recited in Arabic and since the slanderous parts aren't in the original Arabic, no - Muslims aren't cursing Jews and Christians every time they pray.
     
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  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    It doesn't sound that bad to me.
    Again, Muslims should weigh in on the meaning to them.
     
  11. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Total BS, you have added "such as the Jews" and "such as the Christians". They are in no way in the prayer or intended by anyone else but you. In fact your whole translation is mucked up and changed, to your twisted intentions obviously.
     
  12. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Well-Known Member

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    Extremism is the worst religion.
     
  13. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    He didn't add them himself. It's from the Hilali/Khan translation, which is a horrible translation and it's pushed on the world by the Saudis. There's much better English translations out there. They need to be promoted more for English-speaking audiences. You can get the Yusaf Ali version for free and it's quite well-regarded.
     
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  14. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    For one thing its "guide us to the straight way" not "guide is to the straight way" and the part about jews and christians was obviously added as it is not in the Koran, certainly not in Al fatihah.

    heres a decent translation

    http://quran.com/1
     
  15. blue taylor

    blue taylor Active Member

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    They don't hate Jews nearly as much as they do Israel.
     
  16. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    And the Jews show only Love and Concern for the Palestinians.
     
  17. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    As I said, this is the translation that has been reprinted 260 million times. So you can argue all you want that it's not your favorite translation - the fact is that's it's out in the world, all over the place.
     
  18. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    And so it begins.

    Where's my popcorn?
     
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  19. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Now as for the actual meaning of those verses, we can look at this from a few different angles:

    - Let's say that the parenthetical clauses were not in the text... who on earth do you think Allah is angry with?
    - You could argue that since it's the beginning of the Quran, we don't yet know who Allah is angry with? But wait, we're told over and over again that we have to understand the context in which it was written, so we WILL know after all.
    - If you read the whole darned book, it's abundantly clear who Allah despises. The fate of non-believers is explained in great detail, starting off right there in the 2nd Surah. You don't need to have any patience at all, the book gets right into the hatred within first couple of pages!

    So is anyone arguing that there is any confusion about who Allah is forever angry with?
     
  20. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    I think both parties hate each other, until one grows spiritually and matures the hatred will continue for ever.
     
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