'Hatred' as a form of idol worship.

[9-18-1]

One simple association one might make to anything that might be considered 'idol worship' is attachment. Even to borrow from the crude and mundane notion of idol worship as being limited (or solely related to) physical objects; figure(ine)s, symbols etc. How there is an underlying phenomena that appears before such mundane manifestations initially arise; that is, one of attachment.

When thinking of attachment it is first and foremost necessary to consider the concept of polarization(s): the dichotomy of there being two ways to become attached; that is, both positive (perhaps love) and negative (perhaps hatred). In either case, there is a polarization which 'binds' a person to someone or something.

In this light hatred can be understood as a form of idol worship, and is necessarily destructive. It is easy to call upon many examples of institutionalized hatred, not the least of which are religious institutions that indoctrinate people to naturally being polarized against another group or faith.

In a political arena, this view can be applied to the phenomena occurring with POTUS Trump. There is a massive 'following' of Trump but from two opposing polarities: those who are on board with his MAGA (Make America Great Again) platform, and those who stand as a kind of militant opposition.

In either case, regardless of how one is polarized and to what, it is interesting to observe how hatred is intentionally generated as a means of controlling people. If one has the ability to generate attachments ie. profound hatred or profound admiration, this would grant them power over those who form an attachment. This is, as I see it, precisely how idol worship works and is the same fundamental basis of idol-based institutions which use a central figure as a model.

In this way the general susceptibility of one becoming 'polarized' and/or 'attached' is proportional to the degree to which they are impressionable and adopt a polarized view. This manifests generally as the dichotomies of East/West and/or Democrat/Republican (Liberal/Conservative). Such dichotomies both and each have their own extremes: extremism itself being the unifying factor, which returns full circle back to the extent to which one is polarized.

This undoubtedly relates to the Biblical myth of the tree of knowledge of good and evil wherein indulging in its fruits which are pleasant to the senses manifests death. Indeed: polarizing one way or the other without finding the unity in all things manifests death, precisely in the same way hatred always necessarily leads to it, along with the various other forms of human suffering so derived therefrom.

 

[Nakosis]

One simple association one might make to anything that might be considered 'idol worship' is attachment. Even to borrow from the crude and mundane notion of idol worship as being limited (or solely related to) physical objects; figure(ine)s, symbols etc. How there is an underlying phenomena that appears before such mundane manifestations initially arise; that is, one of attachment.

When thinking of attachment it is first and foremost necessary to consider the concept of polarization(s): the dichotomy of there being two ways to become attached; that is, both positive (perhaps love) and negative (perhaps hatred). In either case, there is a polarization which 'binds' a person to someone or something.

In this light hatred can be understood as a form of idol worship, and is necessarily destructive. It is easy to call upon many examples of institutionalized hatred, not the least of which are religious institutions that indoctrinate people to naturally being polarized against another group or faith.

In a political arena, this view can be applied to the phenomena occurring with POTUS Trump. There is a massive 'following' of Trump but from two opposing polarities: those who are on board with his MAGA (Make America Great Again) platform, and those who stand as a kind of militant opposition.

In either case, regardless of how one is polarized and to what, it is interesting to observe how hatred is intentionally generated as a means of controlling people. If one has the ability to generate attachments ie. profound hatred or profound admiration, this would grant them power over those who form an attachment. This is, as I see it, precisely how idol worship works and is the same fundamental basis of idol-based institutions which use a central figure as a model.

In this way the general susceptibility of one becoming 'polarized' and/or 'attached' is proportional to the degree to which they are impressionable and adopt a polarized view. This manifests generally as the dichotomies of East/West and/or Democrat/Republican (Liberal/Conservative). Such dichotomies both and each have their own extremes: extremism itself being the unifying factor, which returns full circle back to the extent to which one is polarized.

This undoubtedly relates to the Biblical myth of the tree of knowledge of good and evil wherein indulging in its fruits which are pleasant to the senses manifests death. Indeed: polarizing one way or the other without finding the unity in all things manifests death, precisely in the same way hatred always necessarily leads to it, along with the various other forms of human suffering so derived therefrom.

So there is good idol worship and bad idol worship? i.e. good/positive attachments and bad/negative attachments.

How does one determine the difference? It seems like a "negative" attachment could be a result of a "positive" attachment. Maybe some hate Trump because they were attached to Obama, Clinton or vice versa. Good idol worship in one sense could cause bad idol worship in another sense.

I don't mind idol worship. You put some significance onto the some object. It benefits you somehow. As long as you realize it's not a requirement from some divine being and it's just you putting this significance for whatever benefit you find in doing so.

 

[Quintessence]

Interesting thoughts. I find the very concept of "idolatry" and "idol worship" flawed from the outset so I won't comment much, but I can see how this line of thinking could make sense to those who put stock in it.

 

[Remté]

I probably said this before, but you drain the meaning out of the word this way and thus it is nearly impossible for you to build a proper argument using it.

 

[9-18-1]

So there is good idol worship and bad idol worship? i.e. good/positive attachments and bad/negative attachments.

How does one determine the difference? It seems like a "negative" attachment could be a result of a "positive" attachment. Maybe some hate Trump because they were attached to Obama, Clinton or vice versa. Good idol worship in one sense could cause bad idol worship in another sense.

I don't mind idol worship. You put some significance onto the some object. It benefits you somehow. As long as you realize it's not a requirement from some divine being and it's just you putting this significance for whatever benefit you find in doing so.

See the dichotomy of "good" idol worship and "bad" idol worship is illusory: fundamentally it doesn't matter how one is polarized - whether in the positive way (ie. adoration/admiration) or in the negative way (ie. hate/resentment). It doesn't matter which way one is polarized, there is still a unifying factor which is one of attachment.

So there really is no "difference" outside what kind of attachment is present. The problem is trying to objectify "good" and "bad" and again relates to the problem of the tree of knowledge. Labeling anything as objectively "good" and/or "evil" is precisely the "extremism" that can be found on either side of any polarity. You have right-wing extremists that cause human suffering, and you have left-wing extremists that cause human suffering. Whether either side is polarized to something positively or negatively doesn't change the fact they are extremists.

I feel the greatest problem related to idol worship is understanding what it actually is and how its scope completely transcends objects. Hatred is not an object, but it is a form of idol worship that leads to destruction. The lowest-hanging fruit as an example is Hitler and his negative polarization against Jews which inspired him enough to manufacture a genocide machine(s). This is why I argue that the religion of Islam - it being rooted in hatred of Jews - is essentially idol worship: this above and beyond the more obvious point that Islam, like Christianity, utilizes a central figure as a model for the whole empire which is itself another form of idol worship. Relating to what you said: as long as people realize it's not a requirement. In religions such as Islam, "believing" and therefor regarding Muhammad as the final messenger is something Muslims not only personally adopt as their world view, but force it on others. This is why there is conflict and Islam manufactures nothing but conflict.

Interesting thoughts. I find the very concept of "idolatry" and "idol worship" flawed from the outset so I won't comment much, but I can see how this line of thinking could make sense to those who put stock in it.

If it is flawed, what is more suitable?

Of course from my perspective, idolatry and idol worship being limited to mundane physical objects is itself flawed from the outset which allows *real* idols (not necessarily physical) to be adopted and "worshiped" by unsuspecting people(s) that, had they known what real idol worship was, they wouldn't be attached and/or bound. This ultimately would ever lead one closer to their own liberation from such binds which are likely the source of their own (and perhaps others') suffering.

As I do argue that Christianity and Islam are essentially idol worship, such a designation lends itself to being an explanation as to why the ME is, as has been, rife with conflict between the three Abrahamic faiths that all claim to "worship" the same god. In reality, they essentially use their god(s) to justify hatred/oppression of others.

 

[9-18-1]

I probably said this before, but you drain the meaning out of the word this way and thus it is nearly impossible for you to build a proper argument using it.

It's actually the other way around - it is the religious institutions that drain (profane) the meaning of it by limiting its application to mundane physical objects. People who worship religious idols are unable to see this, because they are convinced they are on the side of people who are *not* worshiping idols, but are in fact themselves the idol worshipers. It is a vicious cycle that ultimately manifests in the form of projection: accusing others of what one is guilty of. This is the natural product of idol worship and leads to fascist states wherein an authority will kill even its own people if they don't agree and/or fall in line with the authority. This is precisely what the historical Muhammad was like: kill everyone that does not accept him as the final authority on all things related to the god of Abraham. This is pure idol worship, but Muslims can not see it just as the Christians can (could) not see it happening to them.

In the same way an idol worshiper can not know he/she is an idol worshiper, one who is insane hasn't even the faculties necessary to assess their own state of mind, hence 'insane'. Idol worship is a form of insanity: which includes things like hatred and intolerance which brings nothing but conflict. The problem is institutions such as Islam project their own hatred and intolerance outward and imbuing the rest of the world as being intolerant toward Islam.

The opposite is true: it is Islam that is intolerant by virtue of the fact it can not "*accept* even the notion that the Qur'an is forged (which it is) and Muhammad was essentially a sexually degenerated [pedophile] warlord (which he was). It is precisely that Muslims "take offense" to such a designation of Muhammad (which prompts them to call for the spilling of blood as is the case with Aasia Bibi) which reveals their worship of him. If Muslims did not worship Muhammad, they would not take offense to criticisms of him.

It is the religious institutions that profanely renders idol worship as something material and worldly - it masks the real idol worship that is happening in these institutions. The Muslim will see it backwards every single time, as they do with all things. However the problem is not the Muslim: it is the institution of Islam and Muslims are the first victims of it. They are suffering under the oppression of an idolatrous institution but polarizing all of their resentment outward and directing it at all other possible targets instead of realizing the problem is inside of Islam.

An idol worshiper will be someone who vehemently defends their attachment(s) because he/she has incorporated it into their identity (or *I*) upon which they rely. This is why idol worship is dangerous: people who worship an idol such as Muhammad become enraged when Muhammad is criticized. This is exactly what idol worship is and why religious blasphemy laws are nothing short of fascism.

So you have the right idea, but you're projecting it outward and not realizing what you just accused me of, that's exactly what idolatrous religious institutions do: they render idol worship something profane while the adherents... worship idols such as Jesus and Muhammad.

 

[RoaringSilence]

imo idol worship is harmless , its cute and the simplefolk who worship idols are non voilent also they do not convert others nor pose any threat
to other peoples beliefs and if a creator god is jealous that its creation worships stones and it anger's/ bothers the creator, then not much can be said about "ITS" intelligence or capability to handle pointless emotions of anger/jealousy etc. towards ITs own creation.

there is absolutely nothing wrong in idol worship.

 

[Remté]

In the same way an idol worshiper can not know he/she is an idol worshiper, one who is insane hasn't even the faculties necessary to assess their own state of mind, hence 'insane'. Idol worship is a form of insanity: which includes things like hatred and intolerance which brings nothing but conflict.

What is your opinion on obsessions?

 

[9-18-1]

What is your opinion on obsessions?

It depends on what is motivating it.

As in the case of idol worship (though 'obsessions' need not be a form of idol worship) one can be motivated positively (want to create something) or negatively (want to destroy something). In the case of attachment, one can be attracted to or repulsed by someone or something. On either side of the spectrum, extremism is itself the unifying factor that is a manifestation (result of) idol worship.

Regarding obsessions, one can be 'obsessed' with creating something. For example, one can be obsessed with learning. One can be obsessed with learning because, the more one learns, the greater depth he/she has in perception. The more you can see the way the things are, as opposed to what one might "believe", the more one can navigate through life without pain and suffering. If you're driving a car and your windshield wipers are broken, visibility is compromised and one is liable to get into an accident. If the wipers are working, there is an increased safety and security by virtue of their being enhanced perception.

So one can be obsessed with learning and perception. This is a beautiful thing for a human being which is at the basis of how animals 'become' human over time. Unfortunately, there are entire misinformation campaigns designed to cast doubt on evolution (that humans are evolved from more primative primates and our DNA is over 98% identical to that of a chimpanzee) in order to discount the *NEED* to question; evolve; challenge; look beyond etc. and continue "believing" god writes books and sends messengers.

"Believing" something - anything that which one really *wants* to be true is true - is not a virtue. This is an obsession with ones own self: what I believe is true is how I see the world. This obsession is madness, and such people do not create (as in the case above) but rather destroy: starting with everything around themselves. This is precisely what Muhammad did, as he was obsessed with power: and with power, and armies, comes *whatever I want, that's what happens and whoever doesn't agree gets their head cut off*.

This is what the "believers" worship: self-obsession which has costed the lives of hundreds of millions between the idolatrous Christianity and Islam (and Judaism which started this entire mess) as manifest politically in the form of socialism wherein:

“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” —House of Commons, 22 October 1945.
-Sir Winston Churchill

Those who suffer, make everyone else suffer with them. That's precisely what Islam does: exports its own suffering onto others.

And also why the same man said:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property—either as a child, a wife, or a concubine—must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."
-Sir Winston Churchill

And he was and is 100% correct. Islam is a degenerative illness just as China designated it.

But Christianity was/is no different: in some cases it was even worse.

And all of it started in Judaism which built a Hebrew idol out of an Egyptian king (Akhunatun) which they used to "justify" the State of Israel. Do you know the real reason why Muslims hate Jews and the state of Israel? It's because it is a bullsh*t state. What the Muslims don't realize is the same bullsh*t state that is (not) Israel, is the same bullsh*t state that is (not) PALESTINE, which doesn't exist. Islam is trying to do the *same* bullsh*t the Jews did in establishing states of themselves. And all of this is based on idols: Jews have their Moses who was a nothing-burger-became king, Muslims have their Muhammad who was a nothing-burger-became king. What did both do? Establish their 'state' in the name of, well according to the Jews, YHVH, and according to the Muslims, Allah - the former itself being based on the Egyptian (not Hebrew) Akhunatun, who essentially did the same: try to establish a single deity for the world. Egypt became destabilized after this and in came Judaism which evolved out of Canaan(ites) which is the basis of Judeo-Christian AND Islamic theology.

Meanwhile, Christians and Muslims are worshiping their idols not seeing the *blatant* deception which began at the onset with Moses.

Now if Christians and Muslims rejected their idols mutually and united to destroy the *real* source of the problem: the "Hyksos" people (Canaanites) or Cabal "deep state" that manufactures these idols that enslave humanity which would be your Khazarian-type Jews that Muslims hate so very much. These are the people behind the idols, including Muhammad who was himself trained in the Vatican before being unleashed into the Arabian peninsula to "consolidate" the worship of god into one: Allah, which is precisely what Akhunatun did in Egypt circa the 18th dynasty. The life of Muhammad is like a mock/imitation of the life of Akhunatun - another consolidation of power under the worship of a central god (empire) based on an idol. For Jews, this is Moses/meshiach (whence they gave the Christian Greeks/Romans their "Jesus" idol) and Islam has their Muhammad. How Muslims regard Muhammad is precisely the same idolatrous way Christians see Jesus and Jews see Moses - it is all idol worship, and this idol worship is why hundreds of millions are dead and billions are enslaved, and things such as free wireless energy (which Egypt had and Tesla rediscovered) were abundant and free. These are the *golden ages* of man - he has free energy and can manifest anything at will without being destructive with it.

Within the context of the 25 920 year cycle (something that was taught in childhood in Egypt and was known to all early initiates), the last golden age was ~11500 BCE, and the last dark age was ~500 AD. The Moses idol came and culminated into a theopolitical state (of Israel) before 1000 BCE (within 1500 years of lowest point), then the Jesus idol comes and culminates into an entire theopolitical state in 325 AD with the Council of Nicea (within 200 years of the lowest possible point), then the Islam idol Muhammad comes and culminates into an entire theopolitical state by the early 7th century (within 100 years of the lowest point). So the entire dark-ages descent of man from free energy into bondage is related to idol worship (and rightly so: it must be this way by design so man does not destroy himself).

So obsession can only be viewed in terms of its application: if one is using it to create (for example peace) then it is good for one and for all. If one is using it to destroy (for example war) then it is bad for one and all. It depends on the obsession: and reduces back into the Edenic scene of being tempted to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. One will either die (evil) or become "like" god (good) knowing good and evil, which is to see how the two are actually one, which means all polarizations that exist must necessarily collapse upon death, rendering one in his/her own state of whatever degree they themselves ate the forbidden fruits.

Part of the problem is many Jews/Christians/Muslims aren't even aware that they are their own Adam/Eve and each person inherits his/her own iniquities, which means each person has his/her own "fall" that relates specifically to themselves. This is why Christ and anti-Christ are not a person (as an idol worshiper might have it) but a polarization that exists latent in the cosmos taking its two forms, and the same is true within each being, rendering each his/her own Christ and (not "or") anti-Christ because each individual has their own polarization(s) relative to themselves.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

^ wot

 

[Quintessence]

If it is flawed, what is more suitable?

The concept of idolatry is grounded in the assumption that there are "true gods" and "false gods" as well as "right ways" and "wrong ways" to worship them. It emerges from an exclusivist "my way or the highway" mentality that fundamentally misunderstands other cultural practices and is usually steeped in outright cultural prejudice or bigotry. What's more suitable is understanding a cultural tradition on its own terms with a pluralist (or objective/impartial) attitude instead of condemning or dismissing someone else's practices with pejorative terms like "idolatry."

 

[9-18-1]

The concept of idolatry is grounded in the assumption that there are "true gods" and "false gods" as well as "right ways" and "wrong ways" to worship them.

I understand and appreciate this perspective but only to a certain extent: true idolatry need not involve gods or ways about worshiping them. If someone is limiting themselves to such an understanding, undoubtedly they may find themselves unknowingly engaged in idolatry outside of such a purview, one of which is hatred - intense polarization which demands the attention of the one who hates.

It emerges from an exclusivist "my way or the highway" mentality

Now you're right about this definitely: "my way or the highway" is precisely the attitude employed by fascism: either you agree with the "state" or the "state" kills you.

This is exactly what religious blasphemy laws are and why the "state" of Islam itself is both idolatrous and fascist, given its attitude toward "unbelievers" and/or apostates, not to mention the death penalty for anyone who criticizes Muhammad, the Qur'an and/or Islam. This suppression of opposition - people that don't *agree* that the Qur'an is perfect (it is forged) or that a pedophile warlord who had 11 wives is the perfect model for man to imitate - are persecuted for not adapting and/or "respecting" such notions, as they are insane.

But to try to reason with an "idol worshiper" that Muhammad was psychologically ill yields little beyond their taking offense and wanting to spill blood. This is precisely how religious blasphemy laws work and their relation to religious fanaticism (fascism). Islam is absolutely fascist, just as Christianity was in its earlier days up until the Bible underwent scrutiny. No such scrutiny is allowed in Islam: denying the divinity of the Qur'an is a blasphemy in Islam, regardless of if you're a Muslim or not. Over 60% of the Qur'an's content is instructing adherents on how to treat non-Muslims in different scenarios. As such it is more a political book than a religious one, and this is outside the fact that it is forged/man-made.

And this is why I agree that idol worship involves "my way or the highway" because that is precisely what Islam is: their way, or no way.

that fundamentally misunderstands other cultural practices and is usually steeped in outright cultural prejudice or bigotry. What's more suitable is understanding a cultural tradition on its own terms with a pluralist (or objective/impartial) attitude instead of condemning or dismissing someone else's practices with pejorative terms like "idolatry."

And suppose the cultural tradition of an entity (which is effectually a totalitarian fascist state) is to eradicate and destroy everyone else's culture? There is no pluralism in this: it is the opposite of pluralism, it will lead to a global caliphate "state" ruled under one authority: Muhammad's Islam and the Qur'an. That's not "pluralism", that's absolutely totalitarianism. The bigotry can more be appropriated to those who actually do not understand what Islam is, has done for 1400 years and is still doing.

But of course we have the Muslims who cry "Islamophobia!" upon such criticisms, because that's the mentality of Islam: victimhood. It results in projection: accusing others of what one is themselves doing or being. For example, Muslims can not tolerate criticisms of Islam and/or Muhammad because of the (what I say is) idol worship, so they have a phobia of criticisms because it "offends" them and makes them angry. They become angry because they are idol worshipers, therefor accuse everyone who makes them angry as being Islamophobic, even though it is they who are Islamophobic. This projection applies everywhere in Islam: claiming 'Palestine' is a state being occupied when it is actually the Muhammadans who are occupying, blaming the State of Israel for everything the Muhammadans are doing, the UN Islamic members crying foul over human rights of Palestinians meanwhile they are killing their own people etc. It's all pure projection and hypocrisy, which is precisely the mental illness Muhammad had. He was also highly sexually degenerated which is about the worst combination possible - and this is the man Muslims protect ie. "worship" for a living: a sexually degenerated warlord.

So I do not have the same blind regard for "pluralism" because some groups of people are literally insane: the Muhammadans, given their "belief" in many things that are not true are absolutely insane with regards to religious matters, so "pluralism" here is actually destructive - as is playing out on the planet due to the various invasions of Islam via immigration, political, social, economic etc.

It's too bad that the drama in the U.S. regarding Obama being a Muslim who attempted to destroy the U.S. from within is not mainstream - still a "conspiracy theory" I bet (another fascist term that labels people for thinking freely) and the Clinton Foundation was the N.A. front organization for access to the Islamic human trafficking networks that are being established essentially everywhere Islam is invading, including here in Canada. It's very nasty business Islamic jihad warfare - happening in the background with very few noticing.

Hopefully it comes out soon so people can wake the f*ck up over Islam and understand what it *actually* is rather than what Muslims indoctrinate even Western leaders/politicians as is the case with the political warlord Justin Trudeau who is swimming in scandal now.