Hate

[leov]

Does your religion teach the concept of hate? In what capacity and to what end?

Do you hate?

Do you see any practical use for hatred?

religions are a part in evolution of consciousness, it may start with division but with maturity lead to unity.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'd just like to replace the world hate with "rejection". I find it more comprehensible as a concept that way.

...Are they synonymous?

I reject your idea of replacing 'hate' with 'rejection'...

...Does that mean I hate your idea?

 

[Vinayaka]

Good memory, but I don't equate anger and hate. Different emotions entirely.

Yes, anger can lead to hatred, but I've also seen hatred in the absence of anger as well as anger in the absence of hatred.

In my opinion, if one is defending oneself with the purpose of survival, both anger an hate can cloud one's judgment and cause one to behave irrationally which may not be not conducive to survival.

For what it's worth, I see anger as a temporary rising of emotions, possibly fueled by hormones, whereas hate is more of a mindset.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'd just like to replace the world hate with "rejection". I find it more comprehensible as a concept that way.

...Are they synonymous?

For some people they are. Who here hasn't been accused of hate, when all you were doing was rejecting? Personally, I see them as rather different.

 

[crossfire]

In the Kalama Sutta, Buddha said to reject teachings that preach greed, hatred, or delusion as leading to long term harm; and to accept teachings that teach a lack of greed, hatred, and delusion as leading to long term benefit.
Kalama Sutta: The Instruction to the Kalamas

Here's a snippet regarding preaching hatred from the Kalama Sutta:

6. "What do you think, Kalamas? Does hate appear in a man for his benefit or harm?" — "For his harm, venerable sir." — "Kalamas, being given to hate, and being overwhelmed and vanquished mentally by hate, this man takes life, steals, commits adultery, and tells lies; he prompts another too, to do likewise. Will that be long for his harm and ill?" — "Yes, venerable sir."
<...>
8. "What do you think, Kalamas? Are these things good or bad?" — "Bad, venerable sir" — "Blamable or not blamable?" — "Blamable, venerable sir." — "Censured or praised by the wise?" — "Censured, venerable sir." — "Undertaken and observed, do these things lead to harm and ill, or not? Or how does it strike you?" — "Undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill. Thus it strikes us here."
<...>
12. "What do you think, Kalamas? Does absence of hate appear in a man for his benefit or harm?" — "For his benefit, venerable sir." — "Kalamas, being not given to hate, and being not overwhelmed and not vanquished mentally by hate, this man does not take life, does not steal, does not commit adultery, and does not tell lies; he prompts another too, to do likewise. Will that be long for his benefit and happiness?" — "Yes, venerable sir."
<...>
14. "What do you think, Kalamas? Are these things good or bad?" — "Good, venerable sir." — "Blamable or not blamable?" — "Not blamable, venerable sir." — "Censured or praised by the wise?" — "Praised, venerable sir." — "Undertaken and observed, do these things lead to benefit and happiness, or not? Or how does it strike you?" — "Undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness. Thus it strikes us here."​

 

[crossfire]

Another brilliant flash of the obvious regarding hatred are in the first 5 verses of the Dhammapada. Verse 5 is on of my favorite quotes of all time.

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.​

 

[Cooky]

For some people they are. Who here hasn't been accused of hate, when all you were doing was rejecting? Personally, I see them as rather different.

I just see the word 'hate" as a meaningless word, since I can't really view it as an actual quality for me personally. Plus I can't think of a single time I hated someone or something in the past without feeling a strong, unwavering sense of rejection of that thing.

And with "unwavering" we see something constant over time -hence we see obsessive behavior, which is seen as naturally irrational by some.

 

[Vinayaka]

I just see the word 'hate" as a meaningless word. Plus I can't think of a single time I hated someone or something in the past without feeling a sense of rejection of that thing.

...I think hate is a meaningless word.

You might be on to something. Still, with people who've had a long past of conflict with somebody, it may be applicable. Also, for people raised in a culture of hate, perhaps. Certainly those types will use the word, and governments have hate speech laws. I can hardly see a government changing that to rejection speech laws. For the vast majority, not applicable.

 

[dybmh]

Good memory, but I don't equate anger and hate. Different emotions entirely.

Yes, anger can lead to hatred, but I've also seen hatred in the absence of anger as well as anger in the absence of hatred.

In my opinion, if one is defending oneself with the purpose of survival, both anger an hate can cloud one's judgment and cause one to behave irrationally which may not be not conducive to survival.

I totally agree with everything you said. I think we agree 100%. I want to continue to explain my POV. But it's impossible to be brief. It's a big subject. The best I can do, is try to be coherent. And... I'll try to add enough line-breaks to make it easy to read.

-------------------------------------------------------

It's not a good tactic to Hate. It's not really the best way to go. But....

I'm a very empathetic person. That means, that I can approach the Jewish-Muslim conflict on a deep emotional level. A level that many people not only ignore, but are not able to approach at all, much less from both sides.

In order to understand really what I said, and it's implications. It's emotive.

So. Taken from a Jewish ( aka Israeli ) perspective: The Hatred of Palestinians is useful for an Israeli soldier.

It's useful if, BIG IF, the goal is to kill and/or remove people from their land and/or to take revenge. Why is hate useful for this? Because using Hate, the Palestinian is not viewed as a human being, and the Hate makes it a lot easier to kill them or eject them from their homes. This includes killing and ejecting children from their homes. In order to do that to a Child, a person needs to be taught to hate. It's not natural. And it comes from military training.

Note: A drone strike counts as killing children and ejecting them from their home.

Are you starting to see why Hate **might be considered** useful for an Israeli soldier. And I have it on very good authority, that Israeli soldiers are taught and encouraged to hate Palestinians. And please note: every Israeli citizen is a soldier. That means that potentially the entire adult population of the country of Israel is taught to hate Palestinians.

But... I need to qualify this now. I don't think all the soldiers internalize this Hatred, or even ever use it, if it is taught.

I think it happens, just like it happens in the American military, You were in the Air Force... have you heard of the FreedomFromReligion foundation? "Mikey" Weinstein? There are evangelicals in the military who Hate Muslims. And there are marine scout snipers out there who use this hate to guide their bullet straight and true to distances of over a half mile in windy conditions.

Guess what? This attitude, this Hate is reflected and reinforced here in America. It is labeled "Support of the State of Israel". And... a lot of Israelis come to America and live here. They join American Jewish Congregations. And they were soldiers, and they were taught to hate. These Israelis are superstars in the congregation, everyone loves them, for good reason. This isn't where the Hatred began. It is how it is being supported and reinforced by the Jewish institutions who are desperate for membership (aka dollars), desperate for participation, and desperate to make themselves relevant in the Modern American religious landscape.

And thus,

they are rewarded for adpoting the Hatred of Palestinians that is part of the indoctrination of the Israeli soldier. They are rewarded for from the increased membership and morale that comes from having Israelis participate in Modern American Jewish synagogues.

Do you see it? The Hatred is Useful for Jewish Clergy because it increases morale, membership, and relevance of their own congregations. It becomes Machiavellian. If they want the congregation to survive, they are able to rationalize the Hatred as useful. But most of them ( Clergy ) who hate... they were probably pompous arrogant hateful people before. And if an Israeli also Hates... birds of a feather flock together. The hater from Israel is drawn the HAter in America... and that's another way the Hate is useful. Social Acceptance. Hate is useful for Marketing... branding... political campaigns... it's not good... it's useful.

How the Human Need for Approval Drives Social Marketing Strategies

The simple truth is... a lot of American Jewish people, especially and including the Clergy believe that Hate of Palestinians is useful. I don't think it's a consious thought or intentional. I think they have been rewarded for it just like a pack of Dogs. And when a Dog sees it's meat, it salivates.

And they teach it to the children who go to the Temple. The families of these children don't hate Palestinians

( unless they also happen to be hard-right political conservatives. and those are huge demographic in American Judaism ).

But, Most of these families don't even believe in G-d. Seriously. They join because Mommy and Daddy want their kid to have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah. That's it. And so, what happens, the children go and are exposed to hatred of Palestinians as part of "Support of the State of Israel". And That's the cycle of Hate. And it all starts because **someone** thinks it's useful to Hate. But without a belief in G-d, there is no humility to balance out the negative effect of hate. It's a disease.

But. just to go back to the academic approach to this idea:

Hate is useful if:

• you want to make war
• retrieve stolen territory
• take revenge

It's true for Israelis, Palestinians, Americans, the Kurds... whomever...

If they hate it is supremely useful for: making war, retrieving stolen territory, or for taking revenge.

I don't like it. I would never employ it myself. But that's because my goals are not: war, territory, and revenge.

My goal is to make Peace. Optimistic. stupid... childish... foolish.... whatever, I know. That's me. That's my personality.

But a lot of people want war, they enjoy it, it makes them feel good. A lot of people feel that the territory has been stolen ( on both sides of the issue ). And a lot of people want revenge. A lot. And for me {big sigh}... that's the torture. because I can feel it. from both sides.

Make sense?

 

[Link]

Misguided hate and misguided love are two sides of the same coin. Guided love and guide hate are two sides of the same coin, and tempering hate with discipline is part of justice.

 

[Cooky]

Misguided hate and misguided love are two sides of the same coin. Guided love and guide hate are two sides of the same coin, and tempering hate with discipline is part of justice.

Oh no. I don't quite see it that way. I think not everything is balanced 50/50 like that, but rather, we can choose many different paths of various proportions. I think we can even surpass previous inclinations as we move forward, over time.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Does your religion teach the concept of hate? In what capacity and to what end?

Do you hate?

Do you see any practical use for hatred?

I think hatred can motivate action. Hatred of an injustice can motivate a person to correct the injustice.

 

[Cooky]

I think hatred can motivate action. Hatred of an injustice can motivate a person to correct the injustice.

But are you prepared to take on such a burden, considering hatred requires obsession by it's very nature?

...I'm not willing to lock in to such a promise. Not until the end, when I have to. It must be vital.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But are you prepared to take on such a burden, considering hatred requires obsession by it's very nature?

I don't think that's necessarily true.

...I'm not willing to lock in to such a promise.

What you're "willing" to do is irrelevant. Emotions aren't generally voluntary.

 

[Link]

Oh no. I don't quite see it that way. I think not everything is balanced 50/50 like that, but rather, we can choose many different paths of various proportions. I think we can even surpass previous inclinations as we move forward, over time.

You can make up your own morality but everything we have has a purpose and place, wisdom is to put things in their proper place. Hate in a wrong scenario can be evil, the same is true of love.

 

[Cooky]

I don't think that's necessarily true.

Of course it's true that hatred must be kept constant in order for it to remain true "hate"... Otherwise it's just a passing phase.

...Constance requires obsessive behavior -there is no other option.

What you're "willing" to do is irrelevant. Emotions aren't generally voluntary.

But emotions can be controlled or even replaced by our willingness to focus on other things. Positive thoughts and new understandings naturally enter the conscious mind of people, replacing negative emotions. I suppose the speed of this natural process works at different rates depending on various things and people.

 

[wandering peacefully]

tempering hate with discipline is part of justice.

This only applies if you are disciplining yourself not to hate and the resulting justice is your own peace of mind and compassion for others.

 

[crossfire]

Any Siths out there?
I'd love to hear what you have to say about this.

 

[Eddi]

My religion is a religion of love

It shuns evil

There is no place in it for hatred

But I reserve the right to disapprove of certain people

 

[Cooky]

You can make up your own morality but everything we have has a purpose and place, wisdom is to put things in their proper place. Hate in a wrong scenario can be evil, the same is true of love.

Name one scenario where placing love in the wrong place is evil.