1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Hate speech in the Quran and Bible. Should it be tolerated/accepted?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Spiderman, Oct 3, 2021.

?
  1. I lean more towards yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I strongly feel we should

    11 vote(s)
    68.8%
  3. I lean towards "No we should not"

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. I strongly feel we should not

    4 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. stevecanuck

    stevecanuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Messages:
    502
    Ratings:
    +116
    Just pointing out (again) that you refuse to answer the most simple of questions.
     
  2. KWED

    KWED Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,515
    Ratings:
    +1,002
    Religion:
    None
    Hardly, as different derivatives of the root have fully different meanings. Different participles of a verb do not.

    A better analogy would be something like bicycle and biped, or psychology and psychiatry. Same root, different meaning.

    But you didn't provide any examples. You just asked if I had read it, and then refused to explain why you asked.

    I have never claimed that words from the root "daraba" can only mean strike/hit. Only that the context, other usage of the same form, and scholarly explanation shows that in 4:34 it can only mean "hit/strike".
    BTW, your definitions/numbers are inaccurate. For example you claim that in 24:31 it means "cover", when it actually means "stamp (their feet)", so another context of physically hitting something. You claim 2:61 means "condemn - but it actually means "brought down on"/"stamped upon", so another context of imposing something on another. Did you just copy that list from an apologist website without checking it?
    The majority of instances are either "present" or "hit/strike".

    Also, interesting that you haven't included the one particular usage in question here, 4:34. Which meaning do you think applies to that instance?

    So why do you keep avoiding the issue? If you thought it meant something other than "hit/strike", you would have said so. But you haven't. You keep dancing round the houses with your straw man made from red herrings.
    You may not have actually said "I accept that "waidribuhumma" in 4:34 means "and hit/strike them" - but we both know that is what you think. ;)
     
    #262 KWED, Oct 6, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
  3. Praise Jah

    Praise Jah Psalm 83:18

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2021
    Messages:
    77
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness-Christian
    Jehovah is the true God of the Bible, the Creator of all things. (Revelation 4:11) He is the God, not just of one people, but of “all the earth.” (Psalms 47:2)

    Hell is simply the grave, not a place of fiery torment. Even Jesus went to hell when he died. However, “he was not kept in hell,” because God resurrected him. (Acts 2:31-32)

    All of Jehovah’s activities are perfect in that he expresses his attributes of justice, wisdom, love, and power in perfect balance; all being based on principle dictated by his right to exclusive devotion and his constancy in upholding truth; it is governed by his love for righteousness and for those practicing righteousness.

    Jehovah sees all the issues involved in a matter and has complete, entire knowledge of a situation. (Hebrews 4:13) He reads the heart; he notes the degree of ignorance, negligence, or willful sin; and he acts with impartiality. (Deuteronomy 10:17-18; 1Samuel 16:7; Acts 10:34- 35)
     
  4. KWED

    KWED Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,515
    Ratings:
    +1,002
    Religion:
    None
    You certainly implied it.
    I said...
    "This Quran resource uses 6 of the most widely used and accepted translations."
    You replied to that specific statement...
    "Err. Dont make things up. As usual."

    If you accuse me of "making things up" when I state X, then you are clearly implying that X is not true.
    So anyway, you now accept that those 6 translations are amongst the most widely used and accepted?
    As they all translate "waidribuhunna" as "and strike/hit/beat them", you presumably now accept that as well?

    Jeez, it's like a foreign language to you, isn't it? This has already been explained to you in simple terms.
    You clearly are trolling now.

    Ironically, in your attempts to deflect attention from the Quran's promotion of domestic violence, you have actually shone a bright spotlight on it. For several pages.
    Well done you!
     
  5. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    7,133
    Ratings:
    +3,392
    Religion:
    Judaism
    If you kick any verses out of the published text, then you have edited it.
     
  6. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    7,133
    Ratings:
    +3,392
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Yes, there were Christians who used the Bible to justify slavery. Still, the abolitionist movement was also promoted by Christians who were using the Bible to end slavery. You still have to give credit where credit is due.
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    16,971
    Ratings:
    +4,471
    Religion:
    Islam
    No. ;)

    Lol. of course. Most translations have that word "beat, strike".

    You mean English? Or Arabic? ;)

    Mate. When you dont address someones point, but appeal to authority, without knowing their methodology, that's a logical fallacy. When you appeal to majority that is a logical fallacy.

    So far, you have not addressed a single point but only resorted to use ad hominem, ad populum, ab auctoritate. I dont expect you to engage in any kind of decent conversation. But honestly, I am learning from you. Now there is another person who has joined the bandwagon with the same cut and pastes and the same fallacies I see. I will learn a lot from you.

    Keep going.
     
  8. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    16,971
    Ratings:
    +4,471
    Religion:
    Islam
    Tell me. What form is that word used there?

    Faala Laazimun?? Since you said you know the form, you should answer this. I asked you several times.

    Psst. You won't answer it. Because you have no clue. :)

    Keep going.
     
  9. KWED

    KWED Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,515
    Ratings:
    +1,002
    Religion:
    None
    Does the word "waidribuhunna" used in verse 4:34 of the Quran mean "and beat/hit/strike them"?
    Yes or no?
     
  10. KWED

    KWED Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,515
    Ratings:
    +1,002
    Religion:
    None
    Does the word "waidribuhunna" used in verse 4:34 of the Quran mean "and beat/hit/strike them"?
    Yes or no?
     
  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    16,971
    Ratings:
    +4,471
    Religion:
    Islam
    Nope.
     
  12. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    12,664
    Ratings:
    +6,602
    How about the babies' whom this God supposedly told his followers to dash against the rocks?
    Or all the poor people bought and sold into slavery, with God's endorsement and instruction?
    How about the virgins whom God supposedly told his invaders to keep for their own?
     
  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    16,971
    Ratings:
    +4,471
    Religion:
    Islam
    See, since you are an expert, why not answer this simple question. ;) You spoke of form.

    Is the word Faala Laazimun? Tell me oh great one.
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    16,971
    Ratings:
    +4,471
    Religion:
    Islam
    You know what? Let me ask you another question. What is the word for "wife" in the arabic language? You can of course google it.
     
  15. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    16,705
    Ratings:
    +4,851
    Religion:
    Shintopathic
    Thank you. I appreciate your post. But Jesus did say to love your enemies. That includes Muhammed.

    I think Muhammad did what he believed was right. I cannot disagree more with what he did, but I still love him

    He would have decapitated me back then. I believe he has been fully enlightened now.

    Yes, that is disgusting that Polytheists were tolerant of him for so long and then he didn't show them the same mercy.

    I said the Quran fills me with darkness. You said I praised Islam. Where did I praise Islam?
     
  16. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    12,664
    Ratings:
    +6,602
    In my opinion, this kind of thinking is cruel and evil. It tells people that their lives here on earth, right now, the only life we know we get for sure, is worthless. That there's some better life waiting for them later on. It tells people that the way we treat people in this life doesn't really matter, good, bad, whatever. It doesn't matter because one day you'll have a great life, if you only believe in ancient stories. What this does is prevents people from trying to improve the lives of everyone on this planet, because, oh well, God will sort it all out some day and all will be well. I reject that and I find it harmful.


    God hardened his heart. It says right there in the text.
     
  17. KWED

    KWED Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,515
    Ratings:
    +1,002
    Religion:
    None
    Finally!
    That wasn't too bad, was it?

    So, what does it mean, in that particular verse, in that context?
     
  18. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,505
    Ratings:
    +3,499
    Religion:
    Judaism
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    16,705
    Ratings:
    +4,851
    Religion:
    Shintopathic
    There is absolutely hateful speech in Scripture

    Jesus said that those who don't eat his flesh and drink his blood are dead with no life in them. John 6, That is bigotry.

    The New Testament says repeatedly people will be thrown into the darkness where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and torment that lasts forever and ever. Those not written in the book of life will be thrown into a lake of fire. That is pure hatred because it is pure cruelty, and the epitome of cruelty. In my opinion, extreme forms of sadistic cruelty = hatred! :(
     
  20. Lain

    Lain An Intervallic Time Traveler

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    1,371
    Ratings:
    +952
    Religion:
    The One, Holy, Universal, and Apostolic Religion
Loading...